Lisa Lee Photography wrote:
Do you specifically mean why won't they work with you for free, or why won't they pay to work with you, or why won't you let you pay them to work with them?

I very very seldom work for free - TFP is seldom free for the photog - we buy equipment, we put several hours AFTER the models is done with the shoot editing, etc - that said, I will work TFP with a model that meets my need at that time or whom I have a great respect for their work and desire to work with them.  Besides, I don't have TIME - I stay booked pretty solid between my agency work and paid work - TFP is usually time I don't have.

If the tog is paying the model, then they are ONLY going to hire the model that fits their vision EXACTLY.  Why should they be required to pay someone who DOESN'T fit that vision?  I'm only hiring someone for my company that is what I want and need - not some who feels like I owe them that position.  You don't hire a secretary that can't type, becuase you ned a typist.  You don't hire a doctor who can't read a thermometer - they wouldn't meet your need.  Why give good money to someone who isn't what you need?

I seriously doubt most togs are turning you don't if you're willing to pay them.  So, maybe, if there is someone you want to shoot with, but who doesn't do TFP or doesn't need to pay for your services, you should consider paying THEM to shoot you.  Afterall, THIS IS A BUSINESS.  We're not out to be voted "most congenial" (though that would be nice) - we're trying to build our businesses and be successful and secure.  It's like any other industry.  Most mechanics don't fix your car for free, a restaurant won't give you your food for free, why should a photographer be required to give you his or her services for free?  If you want to work with them, make an offer.  Who knows, maybe you can work out a deal.

Good luck.

She's talking about art modeling. I have never heard of any art model who makes a habit of paying photographers, because to do so would be silly. She also did not state that she was looking for paying work. The "business" of art photography and modeling is substantially different from the one in which you partake. Take your argument to someone looking to do commercial, ta.

Madalyn wrote:
Why do you guys advertise for art photography and say you do that, but reject girls (bigger girls like myself) to work with? I dont understand how you could do "artistic work" with someone much much skinner than I am.  Just give me some reason why...k?

I need a skinny asian girl so I scheduled a shoot with a skinny asian girl on thursday. Tell me why you would be a better skinny asian girl than an actual skinny asian girl and I'll fly you over.

Madalyn wrote:
Why do you guys advertise for art photography and say you do that, but reject girls (bigger girls like myself) to work with? I dont understand how you could do "artistic work" with someone much much skinner than I am.  Just give me some reason why...k?

PS: sorry for the spelling errors and grammar, its like uber early for me :-p

Artistic means (hopefully) that the photographer has a vision. I don't think "artistic work" is synonymous with big or small. Are you saying you don't think it's artistic if the model is much much skinnier than you? And by artistic do you mean artistic nude? I realize you probably mean you're being rejected for shoots because of your size? But many models of all sizes are rejected for projects for many reasons - height, weight, hair color, physique, etc. - I just think being rejected based on weight is perhaps a bit more of a sensitive issue. If a photographer rejected you because of shoe size would that be as offensive? Definitely a sensitive area but all models (and photographers) are rejected on a regular basis for many reasons.

Maybe you were rejected because of poor spelling. Everybody knows that skinny models spell better

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Why is it that a skinnier girl cant do artistic work? Sounds like youre being just as ignorant as the photographers you mentioned.

You just said what I said in about 1,000 less words lol.

Catriona wrote:
I  OP, yours are...well...trying to be diplomatic...can't... Okay, they're stupid. I said it. That little chibi-fairy thing on your arm? Any artist who wants to make you look serious is going to run into the wall with that thing. All of your tattoos look like they came out of vending machines. They're generic and poorly done.

Poorly Done?! Do you have ANY tattoos yourself ma'am? People whom dont have tattoos dont know decent tattoos when they are seen, as for my artist, she IS a true artist unlike some photographers that put "ART photography" on their portfolios so they get shots of naked chickies...But I'm Sorry if YOU dont like them, I have only met a FEW people that dont...the last photographer I worked with actually photographed my Tattoos on their own during the shoot. So in short, My tattoos are who I am, and I KNOW there are photographers out there who does NOT mind them...and Hopefully I will find them....

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

Maybe you were rejected because of poor spelling. Everybody knows that skinny models spell better

See I apologized for the spelling in that post Love, I swear 4:30am does not do too well on a person!

Shyly wrote:
As Mr. Wellborn has just so kindly illustrated, yes, your size will keep you from getting jobs.  That's just how it is.  You need to know that going in, expect to get rejected more often than you're accepted, and grow a tough hide if you want to be a fat art model.  I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm speaking from experience.  There aren't many of us, and most people don't know what to do with us or our bodies.

Knowing that, but knowing also that if you're really good people will start to change their minds about you, you need to create a portfolio that will inspire.  You will probably need to pay an artist or two to do that at the beginning.  For all that artists are supposed to be visionaries, when it comes to an unexpected body type they often need to see someone else doing beautiful things with you before they can imagine themselves doing beautiful things with you.  If I had a nickle for every time someone who rejected me when I started came back later and said, "Hey, now that I've seen what all these great artists are doing with you, I'd like to work with you" I'd be...a few cents richer. 

Presentation is very important.  More than once people have indicated an interest in working with me based upon my activity in the forums.  All of Model Mayhem is a networking tool, and sometimes someone will decide to work with you just because they like you.

Lastly, pound the pavement.  I cannot even begin to tell you how many emails I've sent out over the duration of my time modeling.  Everyone whose work interested me within a 150 mile radius heard from me.  Most never responded.  But if you send out hundreds of letters of interest, even if you only get a 1% response rate you've got a start.  Be prepared to work hard, because it absolutely ain't easy. 

Best of luck to you.  I hope you're able to find your niche.

Catriona wrote:
OP, yours are...well...trying to be diplomatic...can't... Okay, they're stupid. I said it. That little chibi-fairy thing on your arm? Any artist who wants to make you look serious is going to run into the wall with that thing. All of your tattoos look like they came out of vending machines. They're generic and poorly done.

Madalyn wrote:
Poorly Done?! Do you have ANY tattoos yourself ma'am? People whom dont have tattoos dont know decent tattoos when they are seen, as for my artist, she IS a true artist unlike some photographers that put "ART photography" on their portfolios so they get shots of naked chickies...But I'm Sorry if YOU dont like them, I have only met a FEW people that dont...the last photographer I worked with actually photographed my Tattoos on their own during the shoot. So in short, My tattoos are who I am, and I KNOW there are photographers out there who does NOT mind them...and Hopefully I will find them....

You repeat my point for me.  Your tattoos are another artist's work, and any photograph of you is, in large part, a copy of that original artist's work.  Few photographers want to do that.

And not all of us feel the same as you when it comes to tattoos in general and your tattoos in particular.  As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as a beautiful, original, well done, or worthwhile tattoo -- they just look like skin stains (self-inflicted mutilations) to me, and they are (in my opinion) a photographer repellant.  When someone tells me "My tattoos are who I am" -- then I wonder who you were before you had them applied.  If your self-image is tied up in your skin stains, then you are telling me that there is nothing deeper, and I'll assume that there's nothing there for me to work with.  You may think that you've only met a few people who don't like tattoos, but most who don't like them will not tell you (and at the same time, will not hire you as a model).

Look -- you asked why you don't get art photography assignments, and you assumed that it was your size that was causing you problems.  We are telling you that it may be other factors, one of which may be your tattoos (and in my case, it is your tattoos).  Sounds like hearing that is a hot button for you.  Sorry about that, but all we are saying is that you need to consider other factors when you contemplate your frustration getting the kind of assignments you desire.  If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

I don't reject anyone who wishes to work with me...Come to Pittsburgh and I'll prove it to you.

What he said... but I'm in Lima OH!

Madalyn wrote:
Poorly Done?! Do you have ANY tattoos yourself ma'am? People whom dont have tattoos dont know decent tattoos when they are seen, as for my artist, she IS a true artist unlike some photographers that put "ART photography" on their portfolios so they get shots of naked chickies...

I don't have tattoos, because I would want to find something very artistic, personal, and beautiful to me before I would have it permanently stuck on my body. The argument that those with tattoos are more qualified to know good tattoos when they see them is like saying that only people who paint and have had their work displayed in galleries are in a position to criticise paintings in a gallery. i.e., ridiculous. Perhaps yours just don't photograph well, but from what I can see in your portfolio, they look like drawings a teenage girl would doodle on her Trapper Keeper when she's bored in her Social Studies class. Which is fine if that's what you like, but don't be shocked when people don't agree, and aren't interested in working with you as a result.

Catriona wrote:

I don't have tattoos, because I would want to find something very artistic, personal, and beautiful to me before I would have it permanently stuck on my body. The argument that those with tattoos are more qualified to know good tattoos when they see them is like saying that only people who paint and have had their work displayed in galleries are in a position to criticise paintings in a gallery. i.e., ridiculous. Perhaps yours just don't photograph well, but from what I can see in your portfolio, they look like drawings a teenage girl would doodle on her Trapper Keeper when she's bored in her Social Studies class. Which is fine if that's what you like, but don't be shocked when people don't agree, and aren't interested in working with you as a result.

Well like I told another Photographer, all my Pieces are works in progress...I am getting the Main image, while saving up for the other parts, bc lets face it...Tattoos are expensive...they will look A LOT different when they are completed. Now for cheesy tattoos, I know a girl (who is NOT a model) and she has video game characters(?) all over her body...now I think they are silly....but you might think they are the coolest thing since sliced bread...