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model asked me if i could take her photos down
gene corleto wrote: I seem to recall a thread regarding MySpace, but if I remember correctly, in creating a profile on MySpace, you've agreed that MySpace "owns" the posted imagery. (Others, feel free to chime in about it.) This is the same issue regarding Deviantart for which I have STOPPED posting images there. You cannot "delete" your images ... ever. If someone has since found a way to do it, again, feel free to chime in and let me know how you managed that. Aug 01 06 09:32 am Link I think if they had paid me I would take the images down and do nothing else with them out of respect for a paying client. If it was TFCD/TFP then I'd continue to use them if I felt they would make a nice addition to my portfolio. I don't think it's being rude at all if so. I think that when you sign up for a TFCD/TFP shoot you are under contract whether it's verbal or written and the idea is that you both donate time to get images you can use. If they change their mind after the fact they are still responsible for upholding that deal. There are way too many flakey internet models out there who try all kinds of crap and this is some of it. I wouldn't give a flying hoot about her boyfriend issues if my payment was images to use. To me that's as crazy as walking into a photographer's studio and asking him for your money back because your boyfriend didn't approve of the photos. Or even worse. That would be like me hiring a model and then demanding my money back after the images were finished saying that it was because my girlfriend thought the images were too provactive and didn't want me to use them for anything. How stupid does that sound? I think a person makes a deal they should keep it. I'd give them the chance or a way out of it which would just probably be for them to pay me my full rate for a shoot and if they said no then I'd continue to use them. I don't think it's about there being other fish in the sea. Yes, we all know there are tons of other models but I think that as professionals we should set the pace and not allow the fly by night wanna be a model today but then quit next month people tell us how it's going to go down. It's like the game is changing and it's being run and manipulate by these 3-6 month long part time models. LOL! But hey, that's just my opinion and who am I? Aug 01 06 09:34 am Link JAY carreon wrote: Gimme a clue here... did it start with an "F"? Aug 01 06 09:34 am Link Kendal Carr wrote: It's a personal judgment call, like any other it goes without saying. I certainly appreciated others' consideration when circumstances required I go into stealth mode for a while. Although I didn't DEMAND and in some cases, offered payment for, no one who I asked to remove images gave me a problem about it -- 1) the images had been used for a considerable time and they shot other and better things to replace them, 2) if commercially used, had outlived their commercial viability; and 3) they were just darned nice about it. The rules of the game change all the time ... rules only apply to those who consent to follow them. So, as in anything else, if I HAD run across a problem, I would either have found an alternative means or not. It's a pretty binary thing. Agreements and settlements are always based on personal judgment and circumstances and "rules" are more like "guidelines" ... no one way works for everyone. Aug 01 06 09:53 am Link Uno rule #1: Only paying clients make demands. but life should be hassle free . Are the images earning you money ? if not, move on to someone else. Aug 01 06 10:00 am Link remove them. respect the request there's others to shoot. Aug 01 06 10:03 am Link I've never asked a photographer to take down my pictures, but I have been asked by a photographer WHY I took his down. Seriously, and he was the first one I ever shot with and I felt my work had improved and I didn't want to display those anymore....and he wrote back complaining about it and going on about how he shot for free and I felt bad so I put one up for a little while but eventually took it back down. Aug 01 06 10:07 am Link Britni Hall wrote: Yeah I had that too. My early shots with a really bad model; I had outgrown them by a long shot and buried them, but she asked me to put them back up. I did for a little while as a favor also, but couldnt bear to leave them up. They were AWFUL. Aug 01 06 10:09 am Link Britni Hall wrote: Who cares if he shot you for free? So, let HIM display the photos, he has them also, right? It's perfectly reasonable to remove earlier work from your portfolio, in fact I'd say it's expected. It's silly for the photographer to get his panties in a wad over that, I'd hope he'd understand, just like as he improved he'd display his newer work. Weird. Aug 01 06 10:13 am Link Claire Elizabeth wrote: Claire for president! Aug 01 06 10:34 am Link Aurora wrote: That was the funny thing. He hadn't displayed my pics on HIS site. I mentioned that as well and he gave me a story about how he's been taking care of his sick mom and didn't have time yet. And I guess I ticked him off because he never did as far as I saw display my pictures. I thought it was weird too. I was glad he didn't tho because I really like to move forward. I like some of my earlier stuff but I feel I improve and I'm always looking for the next best idea. Aug 01 06 10:40 am Link Well lets see. If she pays back the model fee, the airline ticket, the hotel room and the food she ate while in Dallas or on location I will be glad to. If she will not pay then they will stay up on my site for all the world to see. Business is business. bs Aug 01 06 10:44 am Link When I first started, I met at terrific amateur model. We did two shoots together. She got signed with an agency that was going to help find her print work and she was pretty excited. Suddenly I got an e-mail from her asking me to take all her photos down. On OMP she went to a fake name and removed all the pictures except for a couple including one of my own. i didn't hear from her again for weeks. I actually started to worry that maybe I said something wrong. Then again, she was shooting with TONS of local photogs so maybe one of them did something stupid. A couple months pass and I'm get to the point that, hey, I've go some really really good photos and I want to USE THEM! So I e-mailed her telling her I was putting them back up. We BOTH put in effort to make these photos and for me to not use them means that whole time was a really big waste. Here's your last chance to tell me WHY I should not use them because your happiness is important to me and I don't want to do anything that is going to harm you in any way. She finally wrote back! First, she happily told me to USE the photos however I wish. She said they are my photos and I should be proud of them. She then explained to me what happened and it was the dreaded boyfriend story. She chose the boyfriend over modeling. I felt better now knowing what happened to her and better also that I know I shouldn't have any issues in using her pics. They are still some of my favorites and I'd work with her again in a heart beat. So...what should YOU do? If they don't want their photos used, they need to give you a compelling reason WHY (assuming you're willing to comply with their request). Just saying, "take them down" and not giving a reasonable WHY you should take them down is selfish and unfair to you. Is your time worthless? if you can't use them, that means you wasted your entire time setting up the shoot, doing the shoot, and everything you did after the shoot. That alone warrants an explaination. Aug 01 06 10:47 am Link The way you describe it, this girl is fickle and silly. She's being immature and rude to you, and to all of us, because this is our industry too, and TFP means TFP, not free photos for nothing. If this is the case, she should be deleted as a fickle flake. I'm curious to know if there is more to the story. Did you do something to piss her off, or did you "creep her out" ... as some women like to say. Maybe the issue is not the photos, but maybe it's her feelings about you and she no longer wants anything to do with you. For example, if she thought you were hitting on her. In either case, if she asks you not to use them, then I would say she shouldn't use them either, as a matter of common courtesy. Aug 01 06 10:55 am Link double double post post Aug 01 06 10:55 am Link Mayanlee wrote: Not true. But by posting images you are granting them a license to use the photo. Someone pointed out that they HAVE to that, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to hold the image on their servers so that your friends can look at your photos in your profile. For them to legally host your image, they must have a right to the photo. This right is given when you sign up. This does not give them the right to print them out and make keychains with your photos. Aug 01 06 10:55 am Link Mayanlee wrote: This is direct from DeviantArt - Aug 01 06 10:57 am Link JAY carreon wrote: I'm going to go out on a limb here... Your answer was "No" *click* Aug 01 06 11:02 am Link Something similar happened to me once. A model that I get along with very well was enthusiastic about doing some semi-nudes. She came to my place with her sister and we began the shoot. After a few shots she was already topless. I paused and warned her in the friendliest way that she shouldn't volunteer pictures that she won't allow me to use. She said that it was OK and we agreed (like we did before the shoot) that the semi nudes were for a private portfolio that I keep. I show this portfolio only at my place and only to models who have expressed a strong interest in this kind of photography. Fast forward one week: she gets prints and CD and she's delighted with the picture but then politely and apologetically informed me that I can't use any of the pictures. :>) Aug 01 06 11:06 am Link JAY carreon wrote: Haha ... that's the same as you telling them to take down their pictures. What should we expect them to say about that? Aug 01 06 11:08 am Link Fuzzybear Photography wrote: So the resolution we've come to on all this leads one to ask a couple of fork-in-the-road questions: Aug 01 06 11:11 am Link Fuzzybear Photography wrote: I'd politely and apologetically then request that she either a) return the prints and CD which I will gladly destroy along with the RAW files or b) please compensate me for the cost of the photography session, prints and cd and sign a copyright notice stating she is aware she may not use these photos for other than personal display and she has no license to any of the rights granted under copyright. Aug 01 06 11:16 am Link tell them to get new boyfriends. Aug 01 06 11:20 am Link Claire Elizabeth wrote: Love this advice! I've only had this happen once and it was the boyfriend who was pretending to be her attorney. I engaged him in some email back and forth until it was completely unambiguous that he was presenting himself as legal counsel and then I turned all the emails over to the County Attorney's office and the Calif Bar Association. Aug 01 06 11:25 am Link You own the copyright...she needs to pay you for myspace pix...heck, Rupert Murdoch paid 550MM for myspace, so she can shell out a few bucks to use your images...and I'd be a hard-ass about out. If you get a reputation as a chump/sucker it'll take a lotta' time to reverse it. Aug 01 06 11:31 am Link Hey noboday has this thing right...you as the photographer are the copyright owner....the "copyright" owner and you and only you can make the decision to remove your art from your site page. And you also have a release to boot....she has absolutely no right to ask without any compensation. If she wants her images removed then she must pay you to do so and offer to buy out the copyright...and for that you may charge up to 3x the initial rate. It is the law! And any one who uses your images for a web page or any other usage must state you name and year with the copyright symbol ©...for without the symbol it will not stand up in court. All the MMers who list under the "copyright" line for their images, must place the symbol, name and year...if not it's just wrong. So many do not know the law and what has been standards in this business for many years. I suggest you research the copyright site: http://www.copyright.gov/ Please read. And models....when you ask a photographer to shoot you and even if it's for TFP and/or you pay them...they the "photographer" will always own the copyright and retain all rights. Until you the model choose to "buyout" that copyright from the artist/photographer. And that rate can be set by the artist/photographer. So if you want to power to control your images then you'll have to pay extra and all this "MUST" be in the form of a written contract. But then if you continue to pursue this notion, you may find very few willing to work with you. Tests and TFPs are rarely negotiable and quite frankly a test or TFP is really a favor by the artist/photographer...Normally you should be paying them for their time. I have found very few models on this site who may be "Testing" worthy for their time. If models are thinking that they are worth it...then they should be with agencies and having their representatives doing the negotiating. Personally most of my shoots are create with agencies and all the proper agreements are worked out first, so everyone involved knows exactly where they stand. If everyone understood how all this works, we wouldn't be seeing problems like this. But because we are on a site like MM...there are no standards and everyone is left floating around asking questions into the wind....the answers are already in existence. Sorry if anyone thinks I am harse, but normally my career does not work around MM and I have been shooting for many years. I am also a board member of the APA (Advertising Photographers of America) and we have been offering many seminars regarding this stuff....check out the site for them. Photographers may find it a great tool for info and also see how you can join if you like. There's a fee for different levels, but the pro fee is $350.00 for the year. If anyone has any other questions regarding problems like this, let me know and I will do my best to get you in the right direction...models also. Thanks for listening. Ken Aug 01 06 11:36 am Link Frank Tammen wrote: Yeah but if you get a rep as an unsympathetic dick, thats not so good either. A big name in town really stiffed one of my girls pretty bad. I've redirected overflow work away from him because he turns out to be a dick. Aug 01 06 11:36 am Link Images by Lester wrote: I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Aug 01 06 11:40 am Link DigitalCMH wrote: You have to wonder how many good modeling careers have been ruined by boyfriends? Aug 01 06 11:51 am Link Its always wonderfull how many people are so nice. Take down their images. Images they continue to use. Its not worth the hassle some say. Well if you want to continue this as a hobby then do as any model asks before and after any shoot. Ahh you don't like the images I shot of you. I won't use them and I'll give you some cash for the horrible expirence of having done them. Here's a person who has spent time and perhaps money shooting models who were willing to have him use those images in trade. In the world I know of adults make deals and they are suspose to live with those deals. If they don't then they have to deal with the consequences. In this case I would think of a amount that would cover the time and effort I spent in producing my work. You pay it and I'll remove the images. Even that sorta bothers me but at least it helps. To me what I'm I shooting for if people can decide after we make a deal that they don't want the work shown. We shot it. We may a deal and I'll use the images untill I choose not too or you pay for what its worth to me. Yes it may cost him some good will with other models but I value my self respect as well as this little thing called a backbone. Aug 01 06 11:52 am Link Pixel Fisher wrote: You're right, not even you have it right. Aug 01 06 12:03 pm Link end of story the model contacted me this morning and i quote "Thank you so much Gene. I'll still model with you I jsut can keep having people steal my pics and using them its soooooooooooooooooo f--king annoying. You can keep like one or two on each site but thats it, not a shit load of them please.'' story over but im not putting them up again peace gene corleto mm675 Aug 01 06 12:04 pm Link Pixel Fisher wrote: Ken Aug 01 06 12:08 pm Link gene corleto wrote: I'm just amused that they're "[her] pics" that people are stealing. *smirk* Aug 01 06 12:13 pm Link Stevens Photography wrote: Sorry, where is the hassle? Aug 01 06 12:20 pm Link gene corleto wrote: Is she still using the images? Aug 01 06 12:26 pm Link Do what you'd like with the photos, that's your choice. But I think you've just found two more models to not work with ever again. And I agree; jealous boyfriends / husbands suck. Bastards! -P- Aug 01 06 12:31 pm Link Eric S. wrote: AMEN! to that.. All of my event shots are ending up as peoples Myspace avatar's and it'd been a great boon to business. Aug 01 06 12:31 pm Link Everyone is so "turn the other cheek." Goodness- isnt your time worth anything? You had an agreement- she wants to break it- give her a fair but affordable rate for your time and viola- your done. Unless you think she is a client who will hire you in the future or refer you people- then smart business would be to comply. -Jose Aug 01 06 12:36 pm Link George Butler wrote: I STRONGLY disagree with this philosophy. Life is SO MUCH bigger than that. Giving, in itself, is very rewarding. Greed and selfishness is very ugly. Aug 01 06 03:59 pm Link |