Forums > General Industry > ...not sure anyone knows the answer to this one..

Model

jade83

Posts: 2253

Columbia, Missouri, US

When those random one-in-(something like) a million people get discovered/signed, where do they get the money for the promotional pictures the agencies want? (or was I stupid to think a person with less than $1000 could be represented by ANY agencies?)

Jul 29 06 05:22 pm Link

Photographer

Emeritus

Posts: 22000

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Some agencies, not all, will advance money to some, not all, of their models for the things the models need.  That can include transportation, lodging, pictures, books, comp cards, gym memberships, haircuts, and a whole host of other things.

However, that is not the case for hardly any agencies outside New York, Los Angeles and Miami, and is not the case for most agencies and most models even in those cities.

Jul 29 06 05:24 pm Link

Photographer

American Glamour

Posts: 38813

Detroit, Michigan, US

jade83 wrote:
When those random one-in-(something like) a million people get discovered/signed, where do they get the money for the promotional pictures the agencies want? (or was I stupid to think a person with less than $1000 could be represented by ANY agencies?)

TX got it right.  Getting into the business is like getting into any other business.  There are costs.

Most people either have to earn it, save it, borrow it or win the lottery.  There is no easy answer to your question.

Jul 29 06 05:27 pm Link

Photographer

Amy J Jones Photography

Posts: 524

Fallston, Maryland, US

Your numbers are way off unless you are talking about "super-models" (hate that term).  There are thousands and thousands of working models that make a very nice living at this who's names you don't know.  90% of modeling is commercial modeling, a small percentage is fashion modeling and less than a percent are the "Heidi Klums" of the world.  I have the agency book for Ford Models, in that book there are only three of four people who you would know by name.  Most others are the pretty people who work in catalog and sell noxema or tampax in the print/tv ads.  There are sections for plus size models, and "classic woman" which are the over 40 bunch.  Ford handles woman up to about 65 years old!  There are all types of models.  But the bottom line (sorry for the long rant) is that it is an investment like any other business and you do need to get quality photographs to sell yourself. I hire models all the time and most of the time, the client and I are choosing who we use off their model cards-never seeing the model in person.  That is why your model card has to be great, and has to be better than the last girls.  Those photos and that card are what gets you work.  A $1,000. investment is about right...$400 or $500 for photographer, $200-up for makeup/hair, and $300 for the printing cost of the cards.  It's not outrageous.

Jul 29 06 07:18 pm Link

Photographer

Leonard Gee Photography

Posts: 18096

Sacramento, California, US

Most wannabe models will not make the cut, say 90% or more flat out don't qualify. If not by size & height, at least by looks. This is for the major agencies.

For super models in the millions range, which take up maybe 1% or less of the working models, there are models that make a good living in the $100k/year range - a nice living. A good 50% or more of the agency models may not reach that mark.

These $100K models maybe go on about 2-20 go sees a week and get around 1-3 jobs each week. This varies season by season and also the type of clients they work for.

They get started by testing. The agencies have known photographers that get the "best bet" models to test. I've had some agents pay for top photographers to shoot a book. They are usually investing in the models with great potential and the fees advance are taken out of earnings.

Good agents know the right photographers and the photos to pick. The model DOES NOT pick the photos. One of my models picks terrible photos and she finally got a decent agent that threw most of the photos out. She was surprised that the ones I kept bitching to her about got tossed.

Jul 29 06 08:01 pm Link

Model

Claire Elizabeth

Posts: 1550

Exton, Pennsylvania, US

jade83 wrote:
When those random one-in-(something like) a million people get discovered/signed, where do they get the money for the promotional pictures the agencies want? (or was I stupid to think a person with less than $1000 could be represented by ANY agencies?)

If a model is good enough to be discovered the agency may cover the bill and get the money back later once she starts working.

Jul 29 06 08:02 pm Link

Photographer

John Fisher

Posts: 2165

Miami Beach, Florida, US

https://www.johnfisher.com/images/1jesseca_0703fs.jpg

(More) Life in the Food Chain.

Okay, since you have set the parameters ("discovered/signed"), you are asking about a very small (but highly visible) group in the modeling community, i.e. a new face at an editorial fashion agency. "Discovered" normally means there is a scout involved, "signed" (as opposed to "listed" which is what most models are) is something only editorial fashion agencies do (or should do), and then only for their top editorial models and new faces.

Tex has said most of what could happen as far as initial costs are concerned (i.e., agency advances to cover tests, cards, other promotional materials, and even housing). Again, remember a model is an independent contractor with any agency, and is fully responsible for the cost of all of her own promotional material and expenses. The agencies pay for nothing, they may advance some costs, but it is "charged back" against a model's commission account. Interestingly enough, I don't think getting the agency to advance some costs is a bad thing, the only way they normally get their money back is if the model works and creates an account that can be charged back against! If the agency "invests" in a new face, it does create some urgency to get that model working!

(A sidebar here, I've seen many new faces at the editorial agencies whose first "comp card" consisted of nothing more than a sheet of paper with four Polaroid's on it. Doesn't last long, but you will see it every day in New York and during fashion season here in Miami.)

There are other resources available to a new face at a strong agency in a major market (New York, Miami, LA). One is new testing photographers who are trying to get on the agency testing board. A new face might get a free test from one of these photographers (sort of the blind leading the blind, but it's a test and who knows, even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally). And (this might happen in New York, rarely in Miami) if the booker is strong and is particularly hot on this new face, they could push the model at a very successful photographer who is working with the magazines. That photographer might be willing to shoot a brief test just to see the model and see if they are right for what ever magazine(s) the photographer is shooting for. So strangely enough a free test might come from a beginning testing photographer, or a top tier shooter. The better working photographers in the middle normally charge for testing.

In the end, these expenses are really nominal compared to housing and food (in New York, fogedaboudit!). And an editorial model doing commercial work (remember, "discovered/signed") makes enough from most jobs to pay for these minor expenses many times over.

All this said, vast majority of working models will never be "discovered/signed", they will be listed with the commercial agencies or the commercial divisions of editorial agencies. They will live in the few major cities which can support a real modeling industry. They will work on a non-exclusive basis (although the agency may try to tell them they shouldn't list with other agencies). And they will be expected to provide the agency (at the model's own expense, no advances) with the basic tools the agency needs to represent them (primarily a strong comp card or the pictures to produce a strong composite, and/or a head shot with a resume' for movie/TV work).

Fish
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 423
Miami Beach, Florida  33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

Jul 30 06 09:17 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 30131

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

jade83 wrote:
When those random one-in-(something like) a million people get discovered/signed, where do they get the money for the promotional pictures the agencies want? (or was I stupid to think a person with less than $1000 could be represented by ANY agencies?)

Generally the Agency takes the model on first - then guides her /him re photographs /photographers

Jul 30 06 09:23 am Link