WG Rowland wrote:
Sorry..  I just ate too much silliness over the past few days and it needed to come out somewhere..

Nope not silly at all you have to remember that this became an industry as soon as electricity was brought into the homes...

Besides society has expectations that are unrealistic, reminds me of a feeding frenzy of piranhas.

WG Rowland wrote:
People how many of you have forgotten and, more scarily, how many of you never realized at all..  Beauty is all about faking it!

I disagree!

I have met a lot of gorgeous women... and I am talking without makeup, just beautiful skin and hair and simply awsome features... then a skilled makeup artist comes and enhances some of those features... and the gorgeous woman turns stunning!

You have a lot of average or below average, or simply pretty women who use cosmetics to make them "more beautiful"... or simply kinda faking it and this is were you are correct.

But to say that "Beauty is all about faking it!" is an untrue statement... in my own opinion and experience at least.

WG Rowland wrote:
This is inspired by 6 or 7 threads, and some of the theme of all of MM in general.. But it always boggles my mind so I wanted to get it in one place..

Pretty vs Beautiful..
Unreal retouching..
and so on and so on...

People how many of you have forgotten and, more scarily, how many of you never realized at all..  Beauty is all about faking it!

The stylists complain about the unreality of photoshop, when every bit of powder applied, eyeliner added, hair teased, bra adjusted, heels put on, shoulder pads added and removed, etc. ad nauseum is all FAKING IT..

Models argue over who the true beauty is Anjelina or Jennifer, and then we all snicker when some paparazzi snags a photo of the real them..

Even the photogs seem to lose the point that beauty is not a thing.. It's a creation, a sham, an deceit (or a conceit)..  And all we do is bend light, blend shadow, and delete reams of failed shots that point out that our goal is NOT THE REAL WORLD!

Where the hell is Doug Henning when you need him?

Sorry..  I just ate too much silliness over the past few days and it needed to come out somewhere..

I think a really good analogy for all of this is the music business. There are tons of bands and artists touring out there right now who can barely string two notes together, much less do it on key. God forbid they should actually write actual lyrics or music themselves. But people enjoy them, and buy tickets to see them, and who am I to judge what somebody else likes.

I personally like the real thing -- a guy or girl with a guitar that can get up there and mesmerize me with emotional impact coupled with actual ability. Or a jazz trio improvising on the edge, or a pianist giving a fresh interpretation of Bach. That's what gets ME off. Rappers whining about their bitches while a drum machine grinds away, or bitches whining on top of a prerecorded track about how their man ain't never gonna get it -- well, it just doesn't mean much to me. But it IS still music, and if people wanna pay to hear it, well, good for them.

So -- long way of saying -- I agree -- there is no such thing as the real world -- it's all "real," it's just that some of it is "realer." In the end there's what each of us likes, and what each of us is willing to support financially. The rest is just passing judgement.

Paul

UdoR wrote:

I disagree!

I have met a lot of gorgeous women... and I am talking without makeup, just beautiful skin and hair and simply awsome features... then a skilled makeup artist comes and enhances some of those features... and the gorgeous woman turns stunning!

You have a lot of average or below average, or simply pretty women who use cosmetics to make them "more beautiful"... or simply kinda faking it and this is were you are correct.

But to say that "Beauty is all about faking it!" is an untrue statement... in my own opinion and experience at least.

UdoR we agree more than you think..  First off I'm not knocking anyone..  Or even the idea that some people are more physically attractive than others (although this is a very subjective thing..)..  My point is I find it shocking to see so many people who get caught up in the idea that a beautiful person is a beautiful person 24/7..  Especially HERE of all places! 

Quoting you:

"I have met a lot of gorgeous women... ... ...then a skilled makeup artist comes and enhances some of those features... and the gorgeous woman turns stunning!"

Point is even the gorgeous women go through the same series of enhancements, augmentations, and glams created by a whole industry of professionals before making that "stunning" image.

And even the gorgeous people will have bad pictures.. Bad days.. Bad moods..  And bad pictures..

Otherwise we'd all be idiots with phone cams, because what else would you ever need?  (And I think you'll agree with me there..)

My point is it's a team effort.  The more talent, effort, and god's grace (or whatever you want to call natural prettiness) you put into it, maybe the more you get out (although I've seen plenty of examples that break that mold and do it beautifully..)

My point is I find it shocking that even people who do this all the time get caught up in the idea that the end result is something a person carries around with them all the time..  That's.....  Well, it's just silly..

Anjel Britt wrote:
Mmm

ain't nothing like the real thing baby

You're ignoring me.. Remember?

bang bang photo wrote:
I think a really good analogy for all of this is the music business. There are tons of bands and artists touring out there right now who can barely string two notes together, much less do it on key. God forbid they should actually write actual lyrics or music themselves. But people enjoy them, and buy tickets to see them, and who am I to judge what somebody else likes.

Paul

Studio Artists are the new generation, pro tools does wonders..I won't even get into the fact that "most" of these main stream artists can't write their own lyrics because that is not new in the music biz.

I know what you mean but there are still some artists that can perform live and knock my socks off. Not many though.

Bixler Photography wrote:
Doug Henning? Whatever happened to that guy?

Sadly he died in 2000..

I wasn't a fan.. But he died.. And that's still sad..

T R Willmitch wrote:
Hi,

All the camera dimly captures is what it sees.  But never forget that each of these models is a real person -- a living, breathing individual attempting to express some aspect of who he or she is.

The real challenge for any thoughtful photographer is to choose the right model and then coax the camera past the surface… to reveal the unique beauty of the individual model.  The proper focal-length lens; careful lighting; makeup, hair, and clothing; proper sets; and Photoshop retouching -- these are just tools to that end.

Is this faking it?  No, it is looking beneath the surface and revealing a deeper truth.

Take care,
Tom

Is that what it takes? OMG No wonder my photos all suck.
How about the photographer who chooses a model and then convinces her/him to give him the image he wants?

DJV Photography wrote:
I agree totally with UdoR.  I have met quite a lot of naturally beautiful women. Problem is most of them are not models.  They have everyday jobs and everyday lives and they do not want to be models.  But I have also met models that look fantastic with lip gloss and nothing else, makeup wise. Truth be told, many women do not take care of their faces (ie; tanning, not moisturizing, not properly cleaning off makeup, etc) so they need the gifts of the trained makeup artist to look their best.  And yes, some women can actually look quite stunning if they wear makeup, but otherwise they look plain jane, but isn't that what we are all in the business of doing?  We take an attractive woman and make them look even more appealing. And for the models, they want to look their best, be it through makeup or photoshop.

Still missing my point.. Even these natural beauties. These perfect 10s..  Tell me you couldn't take a bad picture..

Tell me there isn't a bad angle, a bad outfit, a blink.. Tell me they're perfect 24/7..

Horseshit..

And why?

Even if they are perfect 24/7..  Familiarity degrades beauty..  Why I wouldn't want to live at the beach..  You visit beauty once in a while and it will literally suck the air out of your lungs, put sparkle in your eye, and drop your jaw into a humble bow...

Live there all your life... And it's just another day at the beach..

WG Rowland wrote:
Sadly he died in 2000..

I wasn't a fan.. But he died.. And that's still sad..

Aww, come on. . .
How can you NOT be a fan?!

Black Ricco wrote:

I'll take Black Ricco's top photo anyday. At least you know who/what you're dealing with. The bottom one is bull****.

Keeper wrote:
I agree that beauty is all about faking it, and you know what? I'm A-Ok with that :-)

~Keeper

Good to hear.. Because if there's a moral judgement in this, I don't know what it is..  It's just an observation.. I don't think anyone's good or bad for agreeing or not agreeing..

Britni Hall wrote:
Untouched and no MUA ( did my own makeup).  You can see I don't like to wear alot of it...
and the most makeup i've worn on a shoot (with MUA)


point being personally I don't think alot of makeup does it for me...it's all a personal opinion tho I suppose.

Very good examples..  Personally, I think your..... Wow?  Does that work?

But the point is.. Look over the pictures in your port.. Every one's different.. Your avatar is 7 feet tall and has a 2 inch torso.. The pic in your bio shows you straight on with more normal dimensions (and still wow)..  It's not just makeup.. It's all over it.. But tell the truth.. If I were to walk in to your bedroom right now and snap a pic of you hunched over your computer with a camera phone.. Would it go in your port?  Probably not...

It's not just makeup.. Every aspect of what we do is about taking good things and making them look beyond..  Pushing past the envelope of what's normal.. And a big chunk of the industry is about selling the idea that those images are an ideal that can be had 24/7 if you just do or buy whatever it is the ads are selling..

The only thing I'm commenting on is that I find it odd that so many (even inside the industry) seem as if they buy into some or all of that..

bang bang photo wrote:
I think a really good analogy for all of this is the music business. There are tons of bands and artists touring out there right now who can barely string two notes together, much less do it on key. God forbid they should actually write actual lyrics or music themselves. But people enjoy them, and buy tickets to see them, and who am I to judge what somebody else likes.

Paul

Isys Entertainment wrote:
Studio Artists are the new generation, pro tools does wonders..I won't even get into the fact that "most" of these main stream artists can't write their own lyrics because that is not new in the music biz.

I know what you mean but there are still some artists that can perform live and knock my socks off. Not many though.

Is Berres Hammond one who can knock your socks off ?

Tony Culture Photoz
Is Berres Hammond one who can [i wrote:
knock your socks off[/i] ?

Berres can knock panties off..lol

Edit: The quote thingy hates me today

Bill Bates wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out if it matters or if I even care  HHhhmmmm.

Nah, I guess not. Fake or reality doesn't matter. It is how the image makes the viewer feel that matters and that is what needs to be my main focus.


Bill

Exactamundo!

Viewers response to an image is not fake at all, therefore the image is not fake.

What if we swap lenses on our cameras or change the ISO for more sensitivity to light than our human eyes can see? Does that alter reality, or is it just a different perspective on reality?

Who ever said our own eyes and brain are the calibration of reality? There is no law of nature that dictates that.

Subjectively, we can think anything is fake.
Objectively, reality exists as it does, regardless of MM threads


:::sip:::

WG Rowland wrote:
People how many of you have forgotten and, more scarily, how many of you never realized at all..  Beauty is all about faking it!

I'm glad many people don't get it. It's an advantage.