Star wrote:
Anyone here post in multiple forums, like the stylist and the model forums?

Do you just post in the forums for which your profile is, like if you are a model only in modeling forums?

Anyone else here encountered people who are just plain rude, for no reason other than you are not a model, or not a photographer, when you post in "their" forums?

Have you ever gotten so angry you have considered leaving the forums altogether?

Can you give an example?

I have noticed certain forums are a bit more "territorial" than others.   

Here's the thing to remember about the internet.  It's kinda like TV, you can turn it off when it gets to be a downer.

Star wrote:
I honestly am tired of people calling me unprofessional, if I was a professional what would I be doing here?

I am an artist, there is a difference

Star

Consider the source! It is unprofessional to call you unprofessional!!! Fuggum, that's what I say. Then you look at the port of the perpetrator and it's nothing special. Me, I'm a hobbyist and I don't care what they say or think. I don't waste my time talking to the wall but I might leave some graffiti!

BodyPainter Rich  wrote:
I might tell them where they could hire a good bodypainter though.

Lets be honest, you could tell them where to hire the best bodypainter,

Star

BodyPainter Rich  wrote:
Before we had a stylist forum I was inclined to skulk around in the model and photographer forums looking for ways to help, or ways to learn. Now that I have a forum in which I have experience and in which I can learn my craft better I mostly stay there...and off topic of course (I can't stay away from controversy...I just can't!) General mayhem finds me sometimes, and of course casting calls is handy as well, I should try travelling notices actually since I have some travelling to do.

I do know one thing. I would not begin to tell a photographer that his or her lens was the wrong brand, and I would not tell a model what agency she should sign with. I might tell them where they could hire a good bodypainter though.

So, if I were in California where could I find a good bodypainter...? 

  I keed! You do amazing work!

Michael Longeneker wrote:
Consider the source! It is unprofessional to call you unprofessional!!! Fuggum, that's what I say. Then you look at the port of the perpetrator and it's nothing special. Me, I'm a hobbyist and I don't care what they say or think. I don't waste my time talking to the wall but I might leave some graffiti!

Michael, you're unprofessional!

BodyPainter Rich  wrote:
Before we had a stylist forum I was inclined to skulk around in the model and photographer forums looking for ways to help, or ways to learn. Now that I have a forum in which I have experience and in which I can learn my craft better I mostly stay there...and off topic of course (I can't stay away from controversy...I just can't!) General mayhem finds me sometimes, and of course casting calls is handy as well, I should try travelling notices actually since I have some travelling to do.

I do know one thing. I would not begin to tell a photographer that his or her lens was the wrong brand, and I would not tell a model what agency she should sign with. I might tell them where they could hire a good bodypainter though.

Rich, your post here is soooo different sounding than that really rude harsh you leveled at a photographer in the stylist forum.   It seems pretty obvious that there it a good level of resentment towards anyone, particularly photographers, who  1) don't know how MUA's work or 2) can't afford full pro day rates.     

Don't take my word for it, just start reading the threads...

Star wrote:
Anyone else here encountered people who are just plain rude, for no reason other than you are not a model, or not a photographer, when you post in "their" forums?

Have you ever gotten so angry you have considered leaving the forums altogether?

Can you give an example?

Yeah, there is this person named Star who came to the Stylist section and started slamming the makeup artists. The Stylist section could be a very helpful place to get some great answers regarding just that... styling and makeup. But STAR came over there and started ranting and accusing to the point of being flat out offensive. And telling people who do that work... 'how it is' like she's got a clue. So she started a few heated threads where she for the most part was put her in place every time and now started this thread to cry about it... soar loser, et al.

If you don't like people being rude, then don't be rude to them in the first place.

Yeah, maybe you should stay away from the Stylist Section. Hey if you dish it.... you better know what you are talking about and be able to receive it right back if you DON'T.

An appology in that section for your disrespectful behaviour and taking responsibility for things that you rightfully should, would be a good way to get a second chance there, otherwise... yeah don't come back.

Dave Wright Photo wrote:
DRAMA!

come on guys, didn't we graduate from high school? i mean, excluding those of us who are actually 16. grow up.

I COMPLETELY AGREE!

But...
You have to expect a certain level of drama when someone who is craving attention purposely makes inflamitory comments and says insulting things in a public forum.  The people who these comments are directed at have feelings and sometimes act out of anger and do not consider the "source".
It's just human nature.  We automatically try to protect ourselves and the people we care about.

I agree that all this drama is SH*T.
(So now it's your turn to tell Star to stop "stirring it")

Kevin-James Bennett wrote:

I COMPLETELY AGREE!

But...
You have to expect a certain level of drama when someone who is craving attention purposely makes inflamitory comments and says insulting things in a public forum.  The people who these comments are directed at have feelings and sometimes act out of anger and do not consider the "source".
It's just human nature.  We automatically try to protect ourselves and the people we care about.

I agree that all this drama is SH*T.
(So now it's your turn to tell Star to stop "stirring it")

Haven't read all the Stylist forum drama, but....

This thread was dead as a doornail yesterday..  Who's lifting it up with posts about NOT stirring up shit?

pots and kettles, people... Pots and kettles..

KM von Seidl wrote:
Rich, your post here is soooo different sounding than that really rude harsh you leveled at a photographer in the stylist forum.   It seems pretty obvious that there it a good level of resentment towards anyone, particularly photographers, who  1) don't know how MUA's work or 2) can't afford full pro day rates.     

Don't take my word for it, just start reading the threads...

KM- First, I apologized for the harsh...that was a bit over the top.
Second I sound different here, because this is the general forum. It's kind of like being on your best behavior when you are at someone else's house vs. feeling a bit freer when you are at "home".
Third, I think you are right, there is a bit of resentment because there is frustration involved. Not that photographers don't know how MUA's work, or aren't willing to pay full day rates...it's more about photographers who are totally and completely in the dark about how MUA's work and consistanly seem to undervalue what we can bring to the table.

You've been in the stylist forum before, and you know that in general we are a helpful and willing bunch. But somedays after you've had 3 clients turn you down in favor of someone charging 25% of industry rates, you still don't have your pics from the TFP you did 5 weeks ago, the magazine gave everyone credit but you, and the ad company hasn't paid yet for work you did 90 days ago....well on days like that you might get a bit touchy. Many of us deal with these sorts of issues all the time, and it would just be nice to "feel the love" instead of somebody crashing through our little "cyberhome".

Now, besides the political threads, I think you might find that my posts in general are supportive and helpful. And I did apologize publicly for losing my temper on that one, my post here is much more indicative of my general tone of voice.

Star wrote:
I honestly am tired of people calling me unprofessional, if I was a professional what would I be doing here?

Hahaha, well, I have never thought of you as unprofessional.  But then again I think you are kewl.

Perhaps we need to coin a new phrase Unforumly.

But then again, I think of you as very Forumly so that wouldn't apply either.

Kevin-James Bennett wrote:

I COMPLETELY AGREE!

But...
You have to expect a certain level of drama when someone who is craving attention purposely makes inflamitory comments and says insulting things in a public forum.  The people who these comments are directed at have feelings and sometimes act out of anger and do not consider the "source".
It's just human nature.  We automatically try to protect ourselves and the people we care about.

I agree that all this drama is SH*T.
(So now it's your turn to tell Star to stop "stirring it")

Yes I CRAVE attention Kevin. Not mentioning the other thread that was ploy, and evil ploy I tell you to get people to read that thread.

AND IT WORKED!!!!!

Ha ha ha ha, I got you to read the thread again. My evil plan is complete,

Star

btb: speaking of pots and kettles, what is the URL to your manifesto again?

BodyPainter Rich  wrote:

KM- First, I apologized for the harsh...that was a bit over the top.
Second I sound different here, because this is the general forum. It's kind of like being on your best behavior when you are at someone else's house vs. feeling a bit freer when you are at "home".
Third, I think you are right, there is a bit of resentment because there is frustration involved. Not that photographers don't know how MUA's work, or aren't willing to pay full day rates...it's more about photographers who are totally and completely in the dark about how MUA's work and consistanly seem to undervalue what we can bring to the table.

Rich, sorry I stopped reading after the harsh and I see that you apologized, good man. 

Here's the thing I hasten to remind you and it's along the same lines of an argument I got in last week with "pro" photographers.  This is a wide open site.  There is no skills barrier to being on MM.  Photographers, unless they are in the field, DON't KNOW how MUAs work!

I grew up in LA.  Amongst studio execs and a good number of artists, talent in front and behind the camera.  I worked for a few years for a pop star.   I came in contact with MUA's but I never knew the inner workings. It was a different world for me.   So, some Joe or Jill Bob right off the street is probably going to know less.  That's the way it is.   Maybe a MM MUA FAQ is in order or they can be directed to Mary's or Em's sites.  Like tell them, read the FAQ then ask for clarification.  I don't see every photographer coming in wanting to start a fight. Or even insulting you guys.   It's just a matter of two different worlds.  And to assume that because someone doesn't know is a matter of automatic disrespect is WRONG.

Secondly, the undervaluing of MUA's.   We're in a society that undervalues ALL ARTISTS.  Unless they make it to celeb status.  You know that.  It's not just MUA's.   And though there are a lot of GWC blowhards on the site, and there is pro talent, there is a mass in between.  A mix of models, stylists, photographers who have different levels of potential as well as career paths.  NOT EVERYONE HAS THE $$ to pay an MUA $500 or $1200 a day!   So, I've seen some people trying to figure out options and basically get shit upon as if it was a matter of disrespect.   It's not.  It's the reality that not everyone has tons of spare change and they're trying to figure out options!

BodyPainter Rich  wrote:
You've been in the stylist forum before, and you know that in general we are a helpful and willing bunch. But somedays after you've had 3 clients turn you down in favor of someone charging 25% of industry rates, you still don't have your pics from the TFP you did 5 weeks ago, the magazine gave everyone credit but you, and the ad company hasn't paid yet for work you did 90 days ago....well on days like that you might get a bit touchy. Many of us deal with these sorts of issues all the time, and it would just be nice to "feel the love" instead of somebody crashing through our little "cyberhome".

Now, besides the political threads, I think you might find that my posts in general are supportive and helpful. And I did apologize publicly for losing my temper on that one, my post here is much more indicative of my general tone of voice.

Put in that context, the context of home from the storm it makes sense.

All I'm saying, reminding, is that a place like MM not only offers a place to be amongst your own but to cross over and educate and be educated.

I've seen threads where emerging MUA's are in a quandry themselves, whether to charge, test, tfp (god forbid I dare use the word!), etc.   So if emerging MUA's don't even know the answers, how the hell do you expect a photographer to???

KM von Seidl wrote:
So if emerging MUA's don't even know the answers, how the hell do you expect a photographer to???

asking a photographer anything on here is like asking Kanye West why is he so good, or russell crowe how is he such an amazing actor or asking the governor of california why is he such a big hit with the ladies. you know youre going to get a clouded up "full of myself" and "let me tell you about how much i spend on equipment/how many people talk about how great my work is despite the fact i'm broke" or a "i'm superior to none because i have a $3,000 camera" answer. its like playing jepoardy on your PC for a long time, and after a while you already know the answers thats coming, lol.

Star wrote:
Yes I CRAVE attention Kevin. Not mentioning the other thread that was ploy, and evil ploy I tell you to get people to read that thread.

AND IT WORKED!!!!!

Ha ha ha ha, I got you to read the thread again. My evil plan is complete,

Star

btb: speaking of pots and kettles, what is the URL to your manifesto again?

Gurl...you need some serious help...roflmao!!!

ooops...the "manifesto" is here:
http://blog.kjbennett.com/?page_id=42

Pat Thielen wrote:
So, if I were in California where could I find a good bodypainter...? 

  I keed! You do amazing work!

you bring the paint and the brush, I will paint.  it's all in the wrist. nuff said. LOL

Chuck Holliday wrote:

asking a photographer anything on here is like asking Kanye West why is he so good, or russell crowe how is he such an amazing actor or asking the governor of california why is he such a big hit with the ladies. you know youre going to get a clouded up "full of myself" and "let me tell you about how much i spend on equipment/how many people talk about how great my work is despite the fact i'm broke" or a "i'm superior to none because i have a $3,000 camera" answer. its like playing jepoardy on your PC for a long time, and after a while you already know the answers thats coming, lol.

that's how I differentiate between GWC's and photographers.  That and portfolios.

There are a number of extremely helpful photographers here, pro and not, very serious and with a wealth of information about the craft.   I listen to the ones that don't claim to know all the answers but offer suggestions about how they might do it.  And I for one have gained a great deal of insight listening to them.