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I've recently been approached to do a 4 hour shoot for a website, some artistic nudes, and a swimwear shoot (all for the same photog). He wants me to quote him a price including travel expenses (about 2 hours from me). I have minimal experience and don't have any idea what is reasonable. Help Please! Jul 09 06 08:10 pm Link Most models Iv encountered usually charge an hourly rate dependent upon experience and what the shoot calls for. For example, an experienced in-demand model doing nudes would probably charge $125 to $150 an hour. Inexperienced models (from what Iv seen), charge a little less than $100 an hour for most any type of work. Travel expenses and usually covered (and rightly so with the way gas prices are these days). Also, a lot models just starting out will time for prints/cd's (abbreviated as tfp/tfcd). Hope that helps some. Best regards Ruben Jul 09 06 08:19 pm Link Ruben Vasquez wrote: Thanks so much for the speedy reply! I have only done TFCD to this point, since I'm desperately trying to build a portfolio. This would be my first paying assignment. Thanks so much for the help. Jul 09 06 08:25 pm Link because it includes nudes, at least a $400 flat rate plus your gas or ticket for travel...most photographers even pick up the meal tab if your coming from out of town. Jul 09 06 08:26 pm Link Make sure you get to see what he considers an "artistic" nude... just in case. Jul 09 06 08:38 pm Link Richard Tallent wrote: That was my thought, too! It's very appropriate. Thanks for the looking out! Jul 09 06 08:44 pm Link Good luck on your shoot but be careful. If this guy is going to have you for 4 hours and the images (nude) are for his website then $300-$400 is dirt cheap. Chances are the images are going to be sold in some way or certainly earn him way more income than what he will be paying you. I saw your port and you are very attractive which is probably why he "wants" you on his site. Don't be afraid to stand your ground and ask for a decent price. My thoughts anyway.... Cheers, Per Jul 09 06 08:52 pm Link Are you guys serious? Good luck not getting turned down if you're asking for $100 an hour. Jul 09 06 08:57 pm Link Cat Platz wrote: He should tell you what he's paying and let you decide whether to take the job. Jul 09 06 09:32 pm Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: My thoughts exactly. Jul 09 06 09:47 pm Link Long ago, before the internet was around, a young model was contacted about doing a commercial shoot and through her agency, was offered a very respectable rate. The gig was for a record label (I told you it was a long time ago). It was to be her first commercial gig, having just been signed by the agency. Excited, she told her neighbor, a serious amateur photographer, about the offer. He told her they were trying to rip her off, that she was worth double the offer. She then told her boyifriend about the offer and about her neighbor's comment. Her boyfrined said he agreed with the neighbor and advised her to ask for/demand tripple offered rate, then negotiate down to douible the original offer. She then told her new agency booker that she wanted triple or at least double the offer. The booker told her she was out of her mind and strongly advised her to accept the offer as it was a good one. But believing her neighbor and boy friend knew better, she stuck to her guns. The next model selected, the client's second choice, was highly pleased when they offered her the gig and ended up with a very nice check to deposit and her face on the cover of a nationally released record album. The first model? Well let's just say it was a very long time before her booker got her another offer. Moral of the story? Don't get ripped off, but at the same time don't get greedy. In your post, you didn't indicate what sort of web site. Is it a pay site? a portfolio site for the photographer? Does he sell photos from the site? Is he an established pro with a major web site? Is he a struggling novice pro? An amateur? My advice would be to ask what he has in mind, his budget, what he can offer before making high demands. For many (most?) of us, demanding $150 bucks per hour for implied nude would immediately have your email sent to the 'thanks anyway' folder. Ask for what you are worth, but find out about the realities. Jul 09 06 09:48 pm Link You should quote a rate that you feel comfortable with - for some models that might be $25 hour; for others it might be $200 hour. Don't just base your rate on a "going rate". Model rates are completely negotiable; nothing is set in stone. You are not getting "ripped off" if you decide on a rate that you are comfortable receiving. I have been on shoot productions (as a producer, not photographer) where the client was paying one group of models $400 for the day, while other models were being paid $800 for the day. The only difference was what their agents negotiated and what the models were willing to accept. If you have rent to pay, you just might go for the lower rate to ensure that you have a job. Everyone is different. Travel is a given - figure out what need to get there and back and add it to your quote. Best... Jul 09 06 10:31 pm Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: No experience Model asks for $100 / hr Jul 09 06 10:34 pm Link Doug Lester wrote: It is not a pay site...won't do that! It's for the photog's site (semi pro). Thanks for the advice. Jul 10 06 07:06 am Link Cat Platz wrote: Then don't do it. Jul 10 06 07:17 am Link Cat Platz wrote: Given the somewhat informal nature of this, I would treat it as a simple negotation, rather than a formal quote. Just get him on the phone and talk about it -- arrive at a mutually-agreeable price that makes you feel like your time is properly valued, and makes him think he is paying a fair but not exhorbitant price. Don't bother sending a written quote, that may turn out to be way more or less than he expects to pay. Jul 10 06 11:20 am Link HI honey I dont think you can smart negociate saying that you a re desperate about building your portfolio.There are hundreds of photographers,and you dont need lot of pictures,you need the right pictures that will get you to work in the future. So are you sure taht those pictures will help your career in short or long term? maybe you're wrong,maybe they will be beautiful pictures but not right for your portfolio. I advice you to join a reputable agency taht move your career in a direction either commercial sport or fashion and after that...IM not saying that you should lay in bed and dont look for TFP or paid work BUT only work taht you really need for your portfolio. Apart from everything above..everybody needs money and maybe in a given time you can pose just to pay bills.I dont know about rates in the US but You're so beautiful,you ahve just started but it doesnt mean that you're like everybody. If he wants the pictures with you is for a reason,so dont let him lpay games with you.As someone said above probably he will re sell the pictures to someone who will pay him lots of money.You never know how is he going to use the pictures,cause you cant check everywebsite on the internet to verify..so everytime you pose at least make sure you get good money or is good for your portfolio. hope it helps Jul 11 06 12:44 pm Link Negotiate? Jul 11 06 12:48 pm Link Check to see what life drawing models in your area are making. Those are the models who pose for college art classes. I'd guess they make somewhere between $10 - $20 per hour. If you have experience as an artisitic nude model and you are doing a photography shoot you might be able to get a little more than that. Maybe $25/hr. Unless the photographer is shooting for an adult website and has a very good relationship with that site it is unlikely that he will be able to afford much more than that. Even if he is shooting for an adult site, $100/hr is still to high to make the shoot worth doing. I've looked into this because at one time I also believed there was a ton of money to be made shooting for adult sites. That's not the case anymore. Jul 11 06 03:55 pm Link Man my mother language is spanish so when you'll be able to write in perfect spanish everything I've written above without a mistake give me a call ok? hehehehe Jul 11 06 03:57 pm Link I'm sorry, but this is the wrong place to ask this question, in my opinion. Rates vary greatly from location to location -- for example, a model in NYC might be able to get a better rate than a model in Kentucky. Instead, I suggest that you spend a little time building a little local artistic community in your area. Things that you could discuss with other models (and photographers) in your area include the following: >>> Rates >>> References for local photographers >>> Shared ideas for things like locations & other resources That would be a better way to get ideas for the rate question you asked. Jul 11 06 04:08 pm Link Ngomo wrote: Irrelevant. This is about a paid shoot, not one for her portfolio. The two have little to do with each other. Ngomo wrote: Again, this has nothing to do with the pictures helping her. It's about money. Ngomo wrote: She's 5'3" tall and living in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Which "reputable agency" would you suggest she join? Ngomo wrote: But that is her question. So why deal with all this irrelevant stuff? Jul 11 06 05:24 pm Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: That's what I was thinking. Jul 11 06 07:55 pm Link Cat Platz wrote: The big unknown here is the web site. And since it is a web site, your location should not affect the rates all that much. Jul 11 06 08:24 pm Link I just read where you said that this was for the photographer's web site, and that he is a semi-pro. Does that mean that this not a revenue project? If not, that kinda cuts the rate he would be willing to pay way down. If he is any good, and since you are new, a starting point would be a TFP. Any fee would be more for your out of pocket expenses and something because your are doing nudes. Would you be able to get images for your portfolio? Jul 11 06 08:30 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: Ngomo wrote: Irrelevant. This is about a paid shoot, not one for her portfolio. The two have little to do with each other. Correct TXPhotog wrote: Ngomo wrote: Again, this has nothing to do with the pictures helping her. It's about money. Correct TXPhotog wrote: Ngomo wrote: She's 5'3" tall and living in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Which "reputable agency" would you suggest she join? Correct TXPhotog wrote: Correct Jul 11 06 09:15 pm Link Glenn Francis wrote: I don't know either. Not enough information given by the model. One good question: how much is he offering? Jul 11 06 10:37 pm Link Umm... 30% of GROSS???? Let's play the numbers game. Fine art print, middle of the road gallery List price: $500, framed - that would be the "GROSS" Under your theory, the model should be paid $75/hr + 30% of gross sales so model would be "owed" $150 from the $500 PROBLEM: Gallery wants 50% of gross --> Photographer gets $250 Frame, matting, print cost ~ $150 --> $100 left for fotog, including time to print, frame, arrange exhibit etc Oops. That's only 2/3rd of what you said the model should get. So photog would be out $50, not make anything from print, and out time. If the photographer sold a lot of prints... he'd have to sell his gear to pay the models. Assuming the prints sell. Stephen Dawson wrote: Jul 12 06 12:57 am Link ARGH! been struck by the dreaded double post syndrome... Jul 12 06 12:59 am Link WHPhotography wrote: That's "Model Mayhem Math" - kind of like ordinary math but where the numbers never really add up. Jul 12 06 03:50 am Link OK, since everyone is stumped by this question, I'll give Cat Platz a number. Here is the offer I would suggest: I would say: "Since you left it up to me to decide on the price, I think $300.00 would be fair, plus I'll need a copy of the photos on a CD to use for my portfolio. If there are any sticky issues with total unrestricted usage, don't press it, but there shouldn't be any problem with being able to use them for your portfolio. You said your travel would be 2 hours (I'm guessing you would be driving to his location) and that's 1 hour each way. I wouldn't even mention travel time (if he agrees on $300.00 include travel time). If he says "What about travel time?" that probably means he is happy with the price and is offering to pay you travel time. I would say: "oh, I don't know.... $60.00 ?" The thing that makes this so tridcky is we don't know what the website is, or what the "artistic nude" is for). If he counters with a lower price, you should accept it if you like the project. Regarding the actual shoot itself, I don't recommend watching the clock. 4 hours can go by really quick. The important thing is the shot - not the time. If it takes 4 1/2 or 5 hours, (or whatever) so be it. Remember you are receiving important things other than money, you are receiving valuable experience in front of the camera, tear-sheets, a reference, and building goodwill. Enjoy....... -Glenn Jul 12 06 04:05 am Link Now that I think about this more..... Ngomo's point was not so irrelevant after all. The ability to use the shots for her portfolio have a lot of value. It would probably cost her $400.00 to $500.00 if she were to hire a photog to do a 4 hour shoot. That's something she should consider when quoting a price, and what the photographer is willing to provide her in that respect should determine what she feels is fair. -Glenn Jul 12 06 05:09 pm Link Glenn Francis wrote: By far, the most helpful advice I have received. Thank you very much Glenn. Jul 13 06 06:33 pm Link Cat Platz, Thank you! I just hope I'm right and don't cause you to loose the job. I'm sure everyone who responded to this thread would like to know the outcome - I certainly would. Please let us know. Thanks............ -Glenn Jul 14 06 01:02 am Link Glenn Francis wrote: I honestly think that's too much. It's a four hour shoot. I am an experienced model and I would not ask for $300 for four hours. I was thinking she should ask for more along the lines of $25-$30 an hour. A photographer who is looking to create photos for his own personal website is probably not up to his eyebrows in cash. And, as far as travel expenses go... Try to figure our how much it would cost to get there and back. Seriously. Ask for that much. Maybe even round up if you want to be safe. Jul 14 06 01:33 am Link If I was you I'd charge him $200 for the shoot plus travel time and expenses. Plus. I'd negotiate very clearly in advance exactly what was expected. Full nudity with everything showing?..more. Playboy style topless...less. Don't be afraid or shy to be very specific and clear. Specifically agree whether any explicit sexual content will be created. I'd also clearly agree in advance whether you would have access to the photos. Use this as leverage to suggest more money. Check out the guys references and meet in advance in a public place with a chaparone. Read the release before signing it and make any changes BEFORE the shoot. You have an outstanding look and you are worth more but you have little experience. $200/half day plus travel is pretty good money for OJT work, especially if you get to use the photos to promote yourself. Jul 14 06 08:25 am Link Oh Gawd no.... NOT the chaperone B.S....... please. -Glenn Jul 14 06 08:41 am Link Image Vermont wrote: Ummm, yeah. No telling what manner of awful thing might happen in Starbucks if you didn't have that "chaparone" around. Have you thought about maybe renting an off duty policeman to sit in for that first meeting? One with a really big gun? Maybe he can bring his K-9 partner too, to make the photographer just a little more nervous. No. Wait! Can't bring dogs into Starbucks. Well, maybe this modeling thing isn't such a good idea after all. Jul 14 06 08:50 am Link Location matters. If you're in Kentucky, there's probably no way you're going to get more than $100/hr. Jul 14 06 08:56 am Link You are in the TRI STATE REGION... $100 an hour is laughable.. you wont get it here.. I noticed the ones saying that arent from the midwest.. LOL I agree, you have to decide what 4 hours of driving is worth to you plus the 4 hour shoot.. so that is a FULL days work.. But those outrageous rates people are quoting you for THIS AREA will just get you on the "is she insane" list.. Jul 14 06 09:15 am Link |
