Mike Vinereanu wrote:
I will be going of to college pretty soon and am aware that the only way to get into my dream school would be through photography and could only make it to a mediocre one thourgh grades.  But once in school I don't know if I want to do pre med and have what I suppose to be a steady career or to majr in Photography.  So my question to you is how steady of a career is it for a photographer?  How is easy or difficult is it?  I want to go into college majoring in photography ready for the worst of it.

Difficult,
like any career.
The successfull man, starts with having a real passion for what they do.....as DO I.

James Jackson wrote:
...Finally if you're piss poor at it, people will run after you with money and gifts asking you to do things far beyond your skill level and talent...

Nice...

-Tripp wrote:
I am not big on replying to many posts.  But this topic is my reason for breathing, so I have to try and lend my support.

You can either make money while being happy or be happy making money.  Twist that however you want, there is double-meaning any way you slice it.

How much money you make will never change the quality of life you lead - if that life does not give you fullfilment.  If you make $300,000 a year as a doctor but always wish you could put the same time and energy into photography, then you'll never be happy.  You'll have money, nice cars, a home or two - the respect of peers in that field, etc. 

But what do peers and money really mean when you wake up and face another day?  Will you be able to get out of bed any easier knowing you're off to your office in your Benzo to make $6,000 a week?  Or would you jump out of bed with more enthusiam knowing you are about to create another vision behind your lens?

Money is never guaranteed, nor is any job.  Life will always be about paying bills and earning a living.  It's how you feel each day about what you're doing that counts while you're earnin your way.

I say, if it's about a steady career, then it comes down to how much effort you put into it.  Why have the belief that if you spend the time in med school, you can be a great doctor making lots of "steady" money but not be a great photographer making a steady living and, earning just as much - if not more?

Dreams that tend to be more related to the arts/entertainment come packed with lots of loaded fluff from non-dreamers, intended to beat down possibilities.  These people cause dreamers to believe that such dreams cannot be acheived with the same "steady" success or longevity.  I say it's bull!  And I've proven it wrong many times.

The men and women who have become great photographers and pull down the thousands a day are not lucky by chance.  They decided their passion was great enough to reach that high.  And by believing in themselves and not listening to other people, they made their dreams come true through commitment and never-ending action.

If you so desire and have the courage and passion to make a steady career from photography, then it can be done.  You can create the same rewards with a camera as you can a degree from Med school.  You just have to want it bad enough. 

And screw anyone that tells you differently.  Think about it!  Would Annie Liebovitz, Tom Hanks or Rupert Murdock tell you it's impossible, or not likely that you could make it as a bigtime photographer, actor or businessman?  They may warn you of the hardships, but they are living proof someone is making it to the top of their dreams.  Who says it can't be you?

The only people that will ever tell you not to get your hopes up about anything you want to do in life are those that have given up hope themselves.  These are the people that don't want to see you make it as a photographer.  These are the people that want to see you settle for that "steady" career, just like they did.  And these are the same people that, after coming home from their careers, sit down in front of the TV during the Oscars and say, "Wow.  What would it be like to live like those people?"

To me, the fact you even posed the question tells me where your heart is.  But your brain, loaded with what the world has taught you, is presenting an argument.  The question now is, do you listen to your heart?

Preemptive: I'm only talking about those that have careers and put down the dreams of others. I know there are many people very happy with their careers. And that's the point, they are happy doing what they want to do.  And they respect the dreams of others.  ;>)

"The only dreams that can't come true,
are the one's that are given up by you" -Tripp

....well said....

Jay Bowman wrote:

Nice...

but don't you find it oddly true?

James Jackson wrote:
but don't you find it oddly true?

Oh, absolutely...

James Jackson wrote:

but don't you find it oddly true?

Sounds like sour grapes...but I agreee. 

Sharon Gutowski wrote:
You sound kind of doubtful about your major to me.  You don't need to know as a freshmen.  You really don't.  Start premed and find out if it's for you, but if it's not you can change and should.  I considered many things before becoming an art major. 

Consider getting a business degree because most successful photographers are self-employed.  Not all, but a great deal. 

I am a photogapher because I can't do anything else.

Sharon

Your last statement is more doubtful than the op.

Many photographers who are self employed lack a business background and go under.

As a freshman, it's very important for him to know as much as he can. To many people screw around wasting time not taking care of business. I see how people are mislead at the school that I go to. Some instructors aren't straight up about direction. If anything, you shouold be encouraging him to find out what he needs to do in his freshman year because many wait at the last minute, graduate and mess up. 

I am a photographer because I chose to be. I have skills in other areas too. Art, design etc. But I also have skills in other fields.

Tonino Guzzo wrote:
The question is,how many photographers is their on MM who actually shoot full time earning a living at it...their sole means of income?

Photography is my sole means of income....but I don't think going to college for it would have helped much...not that learning the basics isn't a good thing....but you don't need college for that......what did help was going to school for business administration....that helped a lot.....especially marketing and promotion.....

No matter how good you are or love your work....if you don't know how to market to those who seek it.....might as well have a sports car with no engine and make all those Varooommm noises yourself...same effect....looks good but don't move.....

Mike Vinereanu wrote:
I will be going of to college pretty soon and am aware that the only way to get into my dream school would be through photography and could only make it to a mediocre one thourgh grades.  But once in school I don't know if I want to do pre med and have what I suppose to be a steady career or to majr in Photography.  So my question to you is how steady of a career is it for a photographer?  How is easy or difficult is it?  I want to go into college majoring in photography ready for the worst of it.

go do ur pre med man we dont need anymore photographers in the world right now   lol

-Tripp wrote:
I am not big on replying to many posts.  But this topic is my reason for breathing, so I have to try and lend my support.

You can either make money while being happy or be happy making money.  Twist that however you want, there is double-meaning any way you slice it.

How much money you make will never change the quality of life you lead - if that life does not give you fullfilment.  If you make $300,000 a year as a doctor but always wish you could put the same time and energy into photography, then you'll never be happy.  You'll have money, nice cars, a home or two - the respect of peers in that field, etc. 

But what do peers and money really mean when you wake up and face another day?  Will you be able to get out of bed any easier knowing you're off to your office in your Benzo to make $6,000 a week?  Or would you jump out of bed with more enthusiam knowing you are about to create another vision behind your lens?

Money is never guaranteed, nor is any job.  Life will always be about paying bills and earning a living.  It's how you feel each day about what you're doing that counts while you're earnin your way.

I say, if it's about a steady career, then it comes down to how much effort you put into it.  Why have the belief that if you spend the time in med school, you can be a great doctor making lots of "steady" money but not be a great photographer making a steady living and, earning just as much - if not more?

Dreams that tend to be more related to the arts/entertainment come packed with lots of loaded fluff from non-dreamers, intended to beat down possibilities.  These people cause dreamers to believe that such dreams cannot be acheived with the same "steady" success or longevity.  I say it's bull!  And I've proven it wrong many times.

The men and women who have become great photographers and pull down the thousands a day are not lucky by chance.  They decided their passion was great enough to reach that high.  And by believing in themselves and not listening to other people, they made their dreams come true through commitment and never-ending action.

If you so desire and have the courage and passion to make a steady career from photography, then it can be done.  You can create the same rewards with a camera as you can a degree from Med school.  You just have to want it bad enough. 

And screw anyone that tells you differently.  Think about it!  Would Annie Liebovitz, Tom Hanks or Rupert Murdock tell you it's impossible, or not likely that you could make it as a bigtime photographer, actor or businessman?  They may warn you of the hardships, but they are living proof someone is making it to the top of their dreams.  Who says it can't be you?

The only people that will ever tell you not to get your hopes up about anything you want to do in life are those that have given up hope themselves.  These are the people that don't want to see you make it as a photographer.  These are the people that want to see you settle for that "steady" career, just like they did.  And these are the same people that, after coming home from their careers, sit down in front of the TV during the Oscars and say, "Wow.  What would it be like to live like those people?"

To me, the fact you even posed the question tells me where your heart is.  But your brain, loaded with what the world has taught you, is presenting an argument.  The question now is, do you listen to your heart?

Preemptive: I'm only talking about those that have careers and put down the dreams of others. I know there are many people very happy with their careers. And that's the point, they are happy doing what they want to do.  And they respect the dreams of others.  ;>)

"The only dreams that can't come true,
are the one's that are given up by you" -Tripp

Quite inspirational... thank you for that!

Rich

Legacys 7 wrote:
Depends on what angle that you are looking at it from and approaching. Let's look at it from a financial perspective because I think that is also your concern and question.

One of the biggest problems that I see in this business and on here often is poor marketing skills. It's unfortunate that most art schools don't teach art majors how to market in their major/products.

You have to know how to market. You can be the best picture taker in the world, but if you don't know how to market and who to market too, you'll be just another starving artist.


I took a marketing class and I even have a couple of books on two photographers who are succesful at what they do. what's interesting is that what both have addressed the exact samething that I had learned in my marketing class that was taught to me and other different art majors.


One of the key things that I have told people on here numerous times, but only a few have replied to, is being able to adapt. You have to have both a style and knowledge of other photography fields.


A key thing here that not only that I know through common sense for me, but also was confirmed by one of the professionals who make a living at this. And that is, you have be more than a photographer these days. You have to have knowledge of graphics and know how to apply this along with many other things.

I am currently in school majoring in photography. Outside of my required classes, I knew exactly what I wanted to take and what I needed. But I also made sure that my instincts were right by asking instructors and reading up. I am taking a graphic design, illustration, advertisement classes because advertisement photography is my major along with other things. Understanding design is very impotant. Having a vision and knowing what will sell is very important.

I think that the biggest problem is the bullshit that artist have to cut through to get to because no one is telling them what works and what doesn't.


Bottomline, many photographers have died in this business because they have failed to adapt with the changing times and technology.

Here's a term for you. Use it and learn it and know why many have come and gone.

Myopia. Many photographers and business are myopia. They focus too much on one thing trying to improve on that one thing and neglect the other important elements that are needed to make the right chemistry.

Sorry but I work as an Ophthalmic Photographer as my day job. I just had to correct your terminology:

Myopia
n : (ophthalmology) eyesight abnormality resulting from the eye's faulty refractive ability; distant objects appear blurred [syn: nearsightedness, shortsightedness] [ant: hyperopia]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

What you are refering to is "Tunner Vision" colloquial term often used in Ophthalmology to describe the effects of Glaucoma which slowly destroys your peripheral vision leaving you with only your central vision just before you go completely blind ;-)

Legacys 7 wrote:
Depends on what angle that you are looking at it from and approaching. Let's look at it from a financial perspective because I think that is also your concern and question.

One of the biggest problems that I see in this business and on here often is poor marketing skills. It's unfortunate that most art schools don't teach art majors how to market in their major/products.

You have to know how to market. You can be the best picture taker in the world, but if you don't know how to market and who to market too, you'll be just another starving artist.


I took a marketing class and I even have a couple of books on two photographers who are succesful at what they do. what's interesting is that what both have addressed the exact samething that I had learned in my marketing class that was taught to me and other different art majors.


One of the key things that I have told people on here numerous times, but only a few have replied to, is being able to adapt. You have to have both a style and knowledge of other photography fields.


A key thing here that not only that I know through common sense for me, but also was confirmed by one of the professionals who make a living at this. And that is, you have be more than a photographer these days. You have to have knowledge of graphics and know how to apply this along with many other things.

I am currently in school majoring in photography. Outside of my required classes, I knew exactly what I wanted to take and what I needed. But I also made sure that my instincts were right by asking instructors and reading up. I am taking a graphic design, illustration, advertisement classes because advertisement photography is my major along with other things. Understanding design is very impotant. Having a vision and knowing what will sell is very important.

I think that the biggest problem is the bullshit that artist have to cut through to get to because no one is telling them what works and what doesn't.


Bottomline, many photographers have died in this business because they have failed to adapt with the changing times and technology.

Here's a term for you. Use it and learn it and know why many have come and gone.

Myopia. Many photographers and business are myopia. They focus too much on one thing trying to improve on that one thing and neglect the other important elements that are needed to make the right chemistry.

Sorry but I work as an Ophthalmic Photographer as my day job. I just had to correct your terminology:

Myopia
n : (ophthalmology) eyesight abnormality resulting from the eye's faulty refractive ability; distant objects appear blurred [syn: nearsightedness, shortsightedness] [ant: hyperopia]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

What you are refering to is "Tunner Vision" colloquial term often used in Ophthalmology to describe the effects of Glaucoma which slowly destroys your peripheral vision leaving you with only your central vision just before you go completely blind ;-)

Le Beck Photography wrote:
Sorry but I work as an Ophthalmic Photographer as my day job. I just had to correct your terminology:

Myopia
n : (ophthalmology) eyesight abnormality resulting from the eye's faulty refractive ability; distant objects appear blurred [syn: nearsightedness, shortsightedness] [ant: hyperopia]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

What you are refering to is "Tunner Vision" colloquial term often used in Ophthalmology to describe the effects of Glaucoma which slowly destroys your peripheral vision leaving you with only your central vision just before you go completely blind ;-)

Nope. This is the Myopia that I'm referring to.


http://www.marketingprofs.com/2/fischler1.asp?s=h

Mike Vinereanu wrote:
Could I possibly have time to double major (business and photography)??  That was my initial plan to major in pre med and in photography this was of course before my friend made it clear that all the time I would spend studying in the library I would need to spend in the lab...

Mike,

you have that right. Read everything on here, but overlook those who tell you what you can't do or can't be done. Take a look at the Myopia llink that I refered to another poster about the other meaning of myopia. This will explain the meanianing of myopia marketing and why many business fail to survive.

This is something that I have learned in a marketing class. I don't care what you are majoring in, you must take a business class.

Tonino Guzzo wrote:
The question is,how many photographers is their on MM who actually shoot full time earning a living at it...their sole means of income?

I am one of them.

James Bluck wrote:
Here's my advice.  If you have the intellect and drive to get into med school, do that by all means.  Pursue your interests in photography on the side.  There will be plenty of opportunities to pursue your creative interests if that's what you want to do rather than spending your spare time playing golf with the other doctors.

This will be hard to do because of peer and, perhaps, spousal pressure, but as a doctor, live frugally.  Do not live up to your income.  Do not develop a lifestyle that requires you to have a doctor's rather than a photographer's income.  Use  your income from medicine to put together a terrific studio that allows you to do what you'd really like to do with photography.  If you decide after all that photography is what you really want to do and your pursuit of it as a hobby proves to you that you have the talent to do it professionally, then you will have that choice.  If you elect not to make that choice, you can still have a great time pursuing it as a hobby, but you'll have to ignore the many people threatened by talented amateurs who will try to dismiss you as a GWC.  Ignore them and have a great time doing it.

If you go the medicine route but develop a doctor's lifestyle requiring a lot of cash flow, you'll never have the choice to go back to photography full time unless you do it close to retirement when you can live off your savings from your medical practice.

If you forego medicine and focus only on photography now, the opportunity for the medical career is unlikely to be available in the future.

If it turns out that you do not have the drive or intellect to perform well enough academically to have a medical career, you can alway go back to photography.

Prettty close to what I was going to say. I used to play guitar professionally. At one point I found myself in a Top 40 C&W band playing a hotel lounge. The singers were not very good but they chose even worse material. So we sucked. One night we were finishing up with "The Dance" by Garth Brooks and instead of the usual insipid ending solo I cut loose with all the frustration that had been building up. The band felt it, shared it, and we went insane for 5 minutes. When we were done, the crowd and the bartender were slack-jawed. I knew I could never do this sort of gig again. I gave my two weeks shortly after.

Now I work for a living and play whatever I want because I feel like it. Same with photography, a wonderful hobby but second fiddle for me. Things are going well for me and I am happy. Something to think about anyway.