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Question of a "Test Shoot"
I was selected to appear in calender. The company/photographer then stated he wanted to set up a test shoot with me before the calender shoot (which is a paid shoot). I've done calenders and other types of shoots in the past and no one has ever asked for a test shoot. Can anyone explain why this person would request that? When exactly would a test shoot would be called for? Thanks Sindia I think I should add. Not to sound vain, but the work I've seen of the photog and the models used previously weren't very impressive. Had it been so, I would be less suspicious. When I sent him a few photos, he came of as extremely excited and said that I was just what they we're looking for then later mentioned the test shoot. The combination of things means I wont be doing a test shoot (in this particular instance). Jul 04 06 02:17 pm Link i do a test shoot with any models i have never worked with before. basically it gives me a chance to document their body, see how they are in front of the caemra and ssee how we get along. it is not uncommon at all. just make sure you do not sign a release for any photos if you are not willing to do TFP. it is also called a 'go see' Jul 04 06 02:20 pm Link It's common for go-sees to include a few "Polaroid" style or digital pictures as a documentation of what the model looks like. Typically no more than two or three shots are taken. On VERY rare occasion before a major job a client will ask for a full up "test" of the model by the photographer - but that doesn't sound like what is happening here. It sounds more like the photographer wants a TFP without admitting to it if the "test shoot" is more than about two minutes long. However, your profile says you have a manager. It's the manager's job to answer questions like this. Jul 04 06 02:25 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: My manager agrees that it sounds like a tfp, especially based on the quality of the work and models he's (th photog presented so far). Jul 04 06 02:32 pm Link Sindia wrote: There are really only two possibilities -- one -- the photographer is just trying to sweeten the pot and get models to shoot with him on a TFP basis by dangling bait (a paid calendar shoot) that he has no ability or intention to deliver -- a deceptive practice, at best. Jul 04 06 04:18 pm Link I've done lots of test shoots for clients. The main purpose of a test shoot is to see whether a model shows up on time, prepared, resembling her photos, and whether she follows direction well. Of those important points, I would say that the "on time" is the most important. Show up five minutes late when everyone else managed to get there on time and you can kiss the job goodbye. Jul 04 06 04:55 pm Link I NEVER NEVER NEVER shoot a model without a test shoot. It proves: that she / he is a real human that she / he can show up and on time look at how the model moves see if we can work together as a team check the angles and lighting that may work for the model my test shoots last 10 minutes and talking to the model another 10. Also I like to view the models portfolio and give them a chance to view mine. Money is money and you have to midigate any problems. Jul 04 06 05:30 pm Link pretty much what everyone said is right...there's no way to be wrong on this one. Test shoot is a catch-all term for several different things: - a shoot to see if the model is [insert term here: real/on time/good looking/etc.] - a shoot to try out a new idea - a shoot to expand portfolios and just work together on an idea that someone had - a shoot to demonstrate a concept to a client - and about a million other things... So, if he's not just offering the paid work to get the test and lying about the paid work (which is doubtful because why not just ask for a test shoot without anything else involved?) then why the concern? Even in the case when there might be paid work attached to a test, you must realize that the paid work may not pan out after the test...this has happened, does happen often, and is no reflection on the validity of the test. On a side note I'm continuing my part in the effort to remove the term "TFP" from the photography lexicon of anyone who is serious about photography from either side of the camera. TFP is not a term that is needed, nor is it a term that has come about from business practice in the 'real world' of photography. Made up internet terms have no business in real world work discussions. The concept of TFP is also similar to one of the ways the term "test shoot" is used, but is deceptively loaded with connotations that are not in the expectation of industry photographers or models after a test shoot. Jul 04 06 08:50 pm Link Piling on. Dude sounds like he wants something for nothing. The end. Jul 04 06 08:53 pm Link megafunk wrote: Why? Jul 04 06 09:01 pm Link It seems to me, the first thing I would verify is if there is really a calendar. If you are satisfied that there really is a project, then you have to decide if you want to test. It sounds a little bit suspicious to me, but if there really is a calendar and the client has really picked you, then you simply have to decide if you are willing to do a test (it does dilute your pay since you are working more hours for the same money). For the record, I don't test, although I do sometimes book a model for a one to two hour shoot before I book her for a day. In most cases though, I can see whatever I need at a go-see where I can snap a few quick polaroids. Jul 04 06 09:03 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: Oh, oh. I think when I do polaroids or digi-pics at a go-see I am breaking a rule. I rarely shoot 2-3 images, I usually shoot four. The last time I looked, that was how many sides a model has. I think I better start leaving one out! Jul 04 06 09:07 pm Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: There you go again, taking unfair advantage of the model Jul 04 06 11:03 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: Maybe his models were offering some kind of deal... like, photograph 3 sides, get the 4th free? Jul 04 06 11:22 pm Link Brandon Ching wrote: SOGO? Shoot one get one? Jul 04 06 11:33 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: Brandon Ching wrote: PK Digital Imaging wrote: Now you have figured me out! Jul 05 06 12:15 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: TXPhotog wrote: Brandon Ching wrote: Now you have figured me out! No no...I think I've got it... Jul 05 06 12:17 am Link If you're interested in the Calendar project - do the prelim - just don't sign anything. John Jul 05 06 12:18 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: TXPhotog wrote: Now you have figured me out! James Jackson wrote: That was before inflation, I now charge $1.85 Jul 05 06 12:34 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Oh my, is that their going rate these days? Half a gallon of gas? Jul 05 06 01:19 am Link If you've been selected for the calendar, why not get that contract signed first? Or is your acceptance dependant on a successful test? :-) Me, I've only required a test shoot for one project, and that's my current cookbook project. I'm requiring tests for any model who meets my criteria, but with whom I've never worked. It's strictly to see how she models, how we get along, and what a quick shoot looks like. If she wants to do it trade (TFP), I'm fine with that. If not, I'm fine with that, too. To date, the five tests I've done have all been trade (at their request), so they got images, and I booked two out of the five. The other three didn't quite have what I was after. That, to me, is a "test" in this instance. But you could also call it an "audition" or even a "peanut butter sandwich," now that I've described its purpose. Jul 05 06 01:26 am Link Always am surprised by the posts that gripe about models that don't show up, when they show up - aren't what the photos look like and so on. Never have shot a job with a model unless she's tested with me. If the client has picked a model and I don't know them - I request a test. Don't like surprises on a job. My shortest test was two rolls of film. Average test has been around 200-300 frames. If it turns out well the model gets a print, just like a regular testing. By then I have a good idea of their range and ability and they've learned how to work with me. I also have models that say "I'll test only if it leads to a job". Next model please. Jul 05 06 02:20 am Link clients typically do go sees, right? to see and meet the models and take a snapshot or two? i would say that meeting the model for coffee and a quick book lookover should suffice, take a few polaroids if you want to. i mean he could be just wanting to shoot with you and then not give you the job. Jul 05 06 02:29 am Link phcorcoran wrote: Leonard Gee Photography wrote: Exactly - this is how it works in the REAL world of modeling! Jul 05 06 02:43 am Link Sindia wrote: Sindia Jul 05 06 03:04 am Link GoldCoastGirl wrote: What are you, four years old???!!! Crikey - I've seen jellyfish with more self-determination! That photographer may have screwed you, but it was you spread yourself wide open - in a manner of speaking. Jul 05 06 03:18 am Link I would like to say: " I will only hire a model *after* a test-shoot." That would be in a "perfect" world. In the real world that's not always possible - it takes a tremendous amount of time to schedule and conduct shoot tests, and sometimes the client has already selected a model. If the client or someone else is **responsible** for the model chosen - that's OK, it saves me the burden of doing the tests. Even still, I would much prefer to test before doing the final so I know what to expect. But when I am *responsible* for finding and hiring the models - test shoots are required. If she doesn't test, she doesn't exist. It's rare that I will hire a model for anything of importance that I haven't tested first. Usually my tests are extensive. NOT 4 shots but usually 400 or more, and takes about 2 hours. I don't just test for *one* project and then throw all the shots away and do it all over again for the next project. That would be both absurd and impossible. When I test a model it will be for every project I currently have and every project I ever will have for as long as she wishes to remain a model. So I try to get as many different looks as possible to present to my clients. Every new project I receive, I submit all the models I have ever tested (who I feel would be good) to the client for choosing. If I don't already have what the client wants - that's when I go to testing new models. In appreciation of their time, I *always* give the model a hi-res CD of every shot taken to use however she wishes unrestricted. I will even do the Photoshop retouching of the shots she chooses to use for her portfolio. To comment on some responses I just read, occasionally there might be some listings where there is no real job available, and the photographer is really looking for TFP - but that's the rare exception - not the rule. Even if that is the case - so what? The model has benefited with additional camera experience and updated portfolio shots. The term "Test-Shoot" in Still Photography is the same thing as a "Screen-Test" in motion picture photography. Does anyone who lives in the real world think that actors are hired sight unseen based on a headshot? Absolutely not! They must first "show" on film how they would perform the actions and dialogue that they would be doing in the real movie. Same thing. -Glenn Jul 05 06 03:47 am Link Christopher Ambler wrote: Glenn Francis wrote: I'll make a particular distinction here that only a few posts above point up: Jul 05 06 03:48 am Link I'm bemused by all of this. The claim that people in the professional industry require extensive test shoots as part of the hiring process for print jobs is entirely outside my experience. Let me be clear: I have been involved with the casting of well over 5,000 commercial print jobs. Not once - not one single time - has the client or photographer requested a "test" consisting of more than a very few "Polaroid-like" reference pictures. It just has not happened. I don't know where all this pre-shoot testing is taking place, but it isn't in the commercial advertising/client world that I am familiar with - and that is true whether the client, the ad agency, a casting director or the photographer did the casting. Jul 05 06 07:07 am Link TXPhotog wrote: What the OP, and some of the others as well as myself, might have been alluding to is a PRE-casting. The job contract not yet being let to any particular model but where only a rough go-see pre-selection of candidates has been made... and only a select few are being called back. Jul 05 06 08:02 am Link studio36uk wrote: I understand that. I've been involved in a lot of call-backs too. None of them included "test shoots" of more than the "Polaroid" type. Jul 05 06 08:30 am Link So much distrust out there! Did you simply ask the photographer if this was a TFP or a "go see"? I wonder how many models lose paying jobs because of being suspecious and distrusting? Jul 05 06 08:33 am Link TXPhotog wrote: i think that if it is anything to have to do with a job that the model, other than a casting or call back, the model should be compensated for her time- because it is related to the job and required, so the client should pay her. when a wardrobe stylist gets hired for somthing, she/he is paid for their prep time. when i do a camera test, i still get paid for my time. you might not always get the luxury of telling a client "i only shoot with girls i have shot before" and things go wrong on sets ALL the time that lead to talent being replaced. i say that if the photographer is so uncomfortable with his casting choices, perhaps they should arrange a more put together and professional "go-see" rather than playing the intrenet guessing game. Jul 05 06 10:23 am Link rachelrose wrote: Now that I think about it, I do recall one time that a model was asked to do a test-shoot. It was a strange situation. He was cast in New York for a shoot that was to take place in Las Vegas. The client had his own favorite, but was willing to give my model a chance. So after a go-see and callback in NYC, (neither of which involved more than Polaroids), they flew him to Las Vegas for a test shoot. They paid for the trip, paid for his hotel and meals, and gave him $1,500 for the test shoot. That was part of the deal before he ever got on the plane. Jul 05 06 10:31 am Link Same planet, different worlds. What works in porn different in calendar and different in commercial. I guess one (particularly models) should be clear in the part of the world they're going to be operating in! Jul 05 06 10:33 am Link Sindia wrote: test happen for big mags etc when your a new model. thing is, the big companies pay for test. it's kinda like a "dress rehearsal" type deal, with out all the styling etc. Jul 05 06 11:46 am Link Treagen Kier wrote: Could you give some examples from your own experience? I know of no such case. In fact, magazines pay very little for the shoot itself, let alone a test. So what have you actually seen happen, and for whom? Jul 05 06 11:56 am Link KM von Seidl wrote: Really! Jul 05 06 12:01 pm Link maybe the photog meant a go-see but doesn't know the terminology? did ya ask him to define test shoot? also, if the quality of his work matters why bother with it? if you're in it for the money, then why care about the quality? Jul 05 06 12:07 pm Link reminds me of this sort of , not the same but similar.. https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?t … 687&page=1 Jul 05 06 12:09 pm Link |