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Models that are also "Photographers".
How do the rest of you respond when you see that in a BIO.? The delusional model in a couple threads yesterday about being too good for TFP and another about getting all the RAW files to do her own editing, when finally pushed to the wall by reason and common practice said "I'm a photographer too". To me, that implied that she should have more input than the guy pushing the button. Others bring it up in a more friendly way, but you just have to wonder if they mean they are photographers, or just have a camera, possibly the one they used to do the 4 MM images. Jun 25 06 02:12 pm Link Watch it, Mac -- when I looked, you had only 9 photos. What's the cut-off point; if you have 8 or less, you are not worthy, but if you have more than 8, you are entitled? Sorry, but your post smacks of a prejudice to me. Look -- as far as I'm concerned, all aspects of the agreement between photographers & models are negotiable. If a model wants RAW files, she is entitled to ask; if a photographer doesn't want to give the model RAW files, he is entitled to decline. If the model wants to be paid, she's entitled to ask, but no photographer is obligated to pay her. If a photographer only wants to give her 5 or less TFP images with no license to edit, the model is entitled to decline. Passing judgment on what you perceive is an unreasonable demand is just rude. If you don't like the deal, walk away. But don't badmouth someone just because you don't like their offer. That's being a sore loser -- it is hardly professional. On a tangent: I know quite a few models that are very good photographers. In fact, my favorite model (see my portfolio) happens to create some of the best self-portraits I've ever seen. That she is an able photographer doesn't make her a difficult model. As I've said, she's my favorite. Jun 25 06 02:28 pm Link Off topic but.....One of the best photographers I have worked with also models. Lenka Drstakova. Damn she rocks. You can check out her images in my port under 'LD Studios'. On topic....tell her to get off her high horse! Why does everyone have to be such a diva?! Sheesh. Jun 25 06 02:31 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: Jun 25 06 02:59 pm Link some of the best photographers in the world were once models at one point or another. and - frankly - if i knew i could do a better job editing than you could... i would ask too. Jun 25 06 03:02 pm Link Macphoto wrote: ****** Jun 25 06 03:22 pm Link There are many model/photographers out there who are far better than me. One is http://www.nancybrown.com/ I have her book and have chatted on the phone with her. Interesting thing is that she had never heard of the website OneModelPlace.com let alone this website until I called. There are many talented women who are far better with Photoshop than I am, so I'm happy to work with them! Also I enjoy shooting models (both male and female) who know a think or two about photography. It makes for better communication! Best wishes! Jun 25 06 03:34 pm Link Originally I had some long drawn out answer, but in the end it wasn't worth the keystrokes. Operating a camera makes you no more a photographer than operating a fork makes you a chef. So yes, I admit I get irritated when so-called "models" who've pushed the shutter button a few times claim to be photographers... ...I'll also freely admit that I get irritated when random non-models who've pushed the shutter button a few times suddenly claim to be photographers. I don't discriminate. Jun 25 06 04:00 pm Link The trouble with "photographers" and "models".... Whenever anyone whips out the quotation marks, I know we are in trouble.... Now ellipses are cool.... Jun 25 06 04:08 pm Link I think models make pretty good photographers......at least they know what they want from someone in front of their cameras...... All the other stuff about wanting RAW files....or negs or anything else....that's another thread.... Jun 25 06 04:10 pm Link That's neat how you assumed that because someone has spent time in front of the camera, they're too incompetent to do anything behind it. If I actually gave a crap what you think, I might be insulted.  Jun 25 06 04:38 pm Link Off the top of my head, models who are amazing photographers: Lapis, Sylwia Krol, Amy Dunn, Shyly, Elizabeth Carter, Benny (he's new but learning fast). And I'm sure there are tons at the bottom of my head, but I won't list them here. Jun 25 06 05:31 pm Link i model and photograph.. i actually prefer photographing but started modeling because i thought it would help me with my photography to see what it was like on the other side of the camera and learn from other photographers.. and its definately made a huge difference in my photography, but i enjoy doing both. Jun 25 06 05:32 pm Link But I will say that none of the model/photographers I have shot have pushed me to give them Raw files. I have, and I've been excited to see what they came up with, but I did that out of my own trust of their sensibilities. Coercion is wrong. Jun 25 06 05:35 pm Link Unless the model has had a recent lobotomy, don't underestimate their skill behind a lens or in a darkroom (digital or chemical). There are several models on this site that I want to work with just so I can learn more about their photographic techniques. Male or female, it doesn't matter which side of the lens a photographer gets their start from, their work is all that matters. Jun 25 06 05:46 pm Link Hi Mac, I have that stated in my profile, but I don't mean it in a high and mighty way. I mean that I am interested in photography but don't consider myself an experienced or talented photographer at all. I did go to college for graphic design and consider myself to have a little bit of knowledge about art and layouts. And yes, 2 of those pics are my own creations to fill up the four slots required for MM. Jun 25 06 06:13 pm Link I am both model and photog. Some of the photog's I work with like that and even feel it makes me easier to work with because not much direction is needed. Compare my work by all means. MM#5809 is my modeling website, I have more photographs posted at www.modelplace.com/coreywellman do you tihkn my photography isn't as good because I was a model first? I also require copies of ALL images taken at the shoot with full rights to edit, publish, and produce. Don't like it, then don't shoot with me. Corey Jun 25 06 06:20 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: Your forgot Suzie Randall..... Jun 25 06 06:37 pm Link *Raises one hand hand for Brian Diaz to see her in the back row* *while smacking the OP with a stack of check stubs from both Modeling and Photography jobs with the other hand* Jun 26 06 01:16 am Link Don't forget the lovely Miss Kassandra... amazes me what she can do with self portraits. Jun 26 06 02:46 am Link Experimental Photoworks wrote: Holy crap. "A great model is able to take an idea/vision that a photographer proposes and make that idea/vision come to life." - Experimental Photoworks Jun 26 06 03:04 am Link I've been thinking about this thread. Being that I modeled, acted and played music before becoming a photographer, writer ... etc., it is a natural progression for any one in an industry to move into other positions in the industry. I am so tough on myself that I was never satisfied with the pictures taken of me so I started taking pictures of myself long before it became a MySpace.com thing. Also I'm NOT such a great musician that I would put anyone through the torture if hearing me, although I look pretty cool trying! Acting was good to me, but I got tired of the walk on roles and never seemed able to latch on to a "lead role!" So I took up stage management and direction instead. At times I'm not happy with a script, I rewrite it! What I'm saying is that it makes sense for models to take up photography. Jun 26 06 12:27 pm Link On topic tell her to get screwed. it is ILLEGAL full stop done it there no questions asked for a model to re-edit your images without your explicit consent. RAW JPEG whatever she asks for even negs s/he can get lost. Off topic people should read copyright law! Back to on topic i did a lot of w/e as a photographers assistant before being roped into modelling because of a no show. Then i figured why am i carrying bags and holding reflectors when i can be paid to just turn up and look good  (just kidding models!) Then i started to save and now i have enough money to pay models for me to shoot them untill i feel experienced enough and my book is strong enough to offer tfp or to command pay. PS yes i'm 18 Work experience happened at 13, modelling not long after - paid from my first job but doing tfp thesedays because its frigging fun So when i turn 19 next month i should be changing again - its like that Paul Weller song only female!  Jun 26 06 12:44 pm Link I wanted to be a photog 6 years before modeling ever crossed my path... I have much to learn before I can have an attitude like that girl!...lol but I do a fine job of capturing what I want in the first shot & editing it well.. I edited my main pic with permission from my photog & I took this pic when traveling in NE  I am saving money to buy a better cam..I am much more passionate about photography than modeling Jun 26 06 01:57 pm Link Diana Moffitt wrote: Lenka is excellent. AlliPhotoGraphix (Alli) is also. And in L.A. Sylvie Blum, a former model herself who was photographed by some of the greats... Jun 26 06 02:02 pm Link Ward is one of my Favs ; ) Jun 26 06 02:08 pm Link . Jun 26 06 02:10 pm Link I do both. But my modeling is my own self portriat work. I will be working on a series on myself soon. I also like to do some GQ fashion style. Jun 26 06 02:15 pm Link Zoe Weisman is another who rocks both sides of the lens. Jun 26 06 07:25 pm Link This in my opinion is a bad thread to start.... You really need to cool your jets Mac....As someone stated before. Some of us models that are photographers started out as photographers and turned into models (such as myself). Ive been in school for photography since i was 14-15. Now im working on getting a Masters. I think some of the models-photographers i have worked with have been some of the best i have worked with... They understand both sides of the camera. And by the way, if you are going to critisize..you might want to look at the quality and amount of your own work... There is my two cents Jun 26 06 07:29 pm Link Macphoto wrote: no problem with me at all - I can learn a few things from this model/photog --- Jun 26 06 07:33 pm Link I do state that i am a model with a backround in photography, I want the people whom work with me to understand i UNDERSTAND, and to give me the same respect they would a peer, not just another subject. I have 2 sites and the most recent has one section for self portraits and the other for modeling all in one. I started out teaching myself photography and darkroom skills, then realized i needed a subject that understood what i needed for my projects, whom better but myself. But I never demand Raw files, Negatives or anything else, i am pretty good with photoshop, If the person shooting decides they can trust that i won't post anything unedited then they chose to give me raw files and so on. but that is always a personal choice. and in no way do i ever assume i am too good for tfp/cd. If more Models were familiar with Photography they might make more patient subjects, and understand how long it takes to set up a shot , and learn a new technique or two. Jun 26 06 07:50 pm Link You can be good at both...Tiana Hunter's photography is excellent, and she is also an exceptional model. Tanya's stuff is very good, and she totally rocks as a model. Being able to do one well does not necessarily mean you will suck at the other, BUT (and this is a BIG "but") a model doing a shoot and then wanting the RAW files so she/he can do their own editing is laughable. Edit: Forgot about Cyntia K (MM 1398)...gorgeous model, very talented photographer. Edit 2: DAMN...forgot SYLVIE BLUM!! Great, great model. Outstanding (and multi published) photographer. Jun 26 06 08:05 pm Link Hey, im not *THAT* bad! ^_^; *hugs her preciouse nikon* Jun 27 06 02:38 am Link Kassandra wrote: No one said you were bad at all.. quite the opposite... and if they do... Jun 27 06 04:08 am Link PK Digital Imaging wrote: Jun 27 06 04:19 am Link KM von Seidl wrote: ...So what does it take to be different??? Jun 27 06 04:44 am Link PK Digital Imaging wrote: Much love for Kassandra too ^o^ Jun 27 06 02:46 pm Link I agree with LookNSee. Everything is negotiable. I don't normally give anyone my RAW files but I did for one girl, Sabrina. As she's a graphic artist, I wanted to see what she could. As it turns out, JPEGs are fine for her as she hasn't take the time to learn how to use a RAW converter. But it was something we talked about and I agreed to it. As for models being photographers, our very own Kassandra is a mere 17 years old and she's doing self-photography with a very distinct style and vision that I find appealing. In addition to being a good model, I think she's going to improve in her photography and become quite good at it...well, more good than she already is anyhow.  Jun 27 06 03:03 pm Link Given my background in publishing, I have quite a bit of experience working with photoshop. I understand that I don't have the right to alter a photographer's photos, but I have to say, it sucks when I receive a disk full of unuseable images from a photographer who is either less skilled or less attentive to detail in image editing than I am. I would never want to completely rework the image, but it's really tempting when you have images that you know have the potential to be useable with a little straightening, cropping, skin smoothing, etc. I often find full-body shots that don't really work, but my face looks good, and I want to crop it into a nice headshot or beauty image. I have this other image that I love, but the shoes just don't match my dress and I totally want to go into photoshop and adjust the color. Jun 27 06 03:17 pm Link |
