yani wrote:
If people responded it is called "informed consent". 

Why are other people's choices an issue?

I could care less who said they were interested. I just dont see how that can be considered tfp.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
So I see a tfp casting call that requires the model to do her own makeup or pay for the mua, give full rights so the photog can sell them for stock, edit her own photos, and travel on her own dime. Unbelievably people responded. Call me crazy but isnt tfp supposed to be mutually beneficial? If the model does all that what good is the photographer lol?

Oh hell I'd say 70% of the time the models responding to these casting have no idea what they are responding to. Which may be the case here.

I could post a casting telling models I would pay them $1,000 for 4 hours of shooting, 3-4 looks, all images edited and on a CD. But, I would have to cut off their left foot.
I'd get about 20 "I'm interested, let me know if I have what it takes"  responses.

Envy wrote:

Oh hell I'd say 70% of the time the models responding to these casting have no idea what they are responding to. Which may be the case here.

I could post a casting telling models I would pay them $1,000 for 4 hours of shooting, 3-4 looks, all images edited and on a CD. But, I would have to cut off their left foot.
I'd get about 20 "I'm interested, let me know if I have what it takes"  responses.

I love that lol. And I would certainly let you have my left foot for a chance to shoot with you!

yani wrote:
If people responded it is called "informed consent". 

Why are other people's choices an issue?

This is a typical response, similar in mentality to those such as "If you don't like their terms, don't hire them", "If you don't like the TV show, change  the channel", etc.

While all this is true, there is benefit in constructively discussing those that may be unreasonsable so that others may be educated, including perhaps the "offender".

Envy wrote:

Oh hell I'd say 70% of the time the models responding to these casting have no idea what they are responding to. Which may be the case here.

I could post a casting telling models I would pay them $1,000 for 4 hours of shooting, 3-4 looks, all images edited and on a CD. But, I would have to cut off their left foot.
I'd get about 20 "I'm interested, let me know if I have what it takes"  responses.

Envy, not only can you have my left foot, you can have the right one too. Why the hell do I need 'em, they don't do me any good.

rp_photo wrote:

This is a typical response, similar in mentality to those such as "If you don't like their terms, don't hire them", "If you don't like the TV show, change  the channel", etc.

While all this is true, there is benefit in constructively "outing" those that are unreasonsable so that others may be educated, including perhaps the "offender".

I wasnt outing anyone I just think its interesting that people make outrageous demands and get plenty of responses. As Envy said a lot of it probably involves a lack of reading on the part of the models.

Jim Duvall wrote:
Value is individually subjective. Especially when we are talking about something that has no expected resale. Any thing is worth what two individuals will accept or pay for it and nothing more. As long as someone thinks its a good deal it is for them. I have models who seek me out and move heaven and earth to work with me. I have models who I have to move heaven and earth to work with. Some people look at my work, and there is no amount of money that could get them to pose for me. Others pester me and don't care so much that there is even film in the camera they just want to get tied up.

And if I was ever on the east coast, you're one I would move some dirt adn sky to get to.

I can certainly see your point if the aforementioned person was all that great. Its funny how casting calls like that get 20 responses and there are amazing photographers who get 0. And thank you for the compliment by the way.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

I love that lol. And I would certainly let you have my left foot for a chance to shoot with you!

You know damn well it's true.
Careful what you say Claire , I have a drawer full of feet. I'm selling them to Collin Rae in exchange for a foot massage.

Envy wrote:

You know damn well it's true.
Careful what you say Claire , I have a drawer full of feet. I'm selling them to Collin Rae in exchange for a foot massage.

Envy will now have a large left foot collection!!

Fons Studio wrote:
Assuming the photographer is legit, he's going to bring 5000.00$-10000.00$ worth of equipment to the shoot, plus his expertise. Her investment ?

That argument is getting old lol. And the model is the one traveling not to mention his expertise being questionable.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

Envy will now have a large left foot collection!!

Gee Claire, i didn't know you had a large left foot.

Asha wrote:
Ridiculous.  If the photographer is going to sell the images, everyone involved should get a piece of the pie.  Whenever a model does TFP/CD the contract should say that no one can sell the images for profit...duh.

Yes that is what I am getting at. The model is spending $$ in order for the photographer to earn $$ when he sells the images, which he wont even edit for her.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

That argument is getting old lol. And the model is the one traveling not to mention his expertise being questionable.

Old doesn't make it false. But if he is less than adequate to the task, it's up to each model to question her investment in the deal.

Fons Studio wrote:

Old doesn't make it false. But if he is less than adequate to the task, it's up to each model to question her investment in the deal.

Im not saying that its a false argument. But models and muas spend just as much as you have spent on your equipment. Believe me, I have receipts for my wardrobe, shoes, mua's, hair stylists, travel, marketing, print services, etc which add up to at least 5K. MUA's spend money on education, travel, products, etc. We all spend $$.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

Im not saying that its a false argument. But models and muas spend just as much as you have spent on your equipment. Believe me, I have receipts for my wardrobe, shoes, mua's, hair stylists, travel, marketing, print services, etc which add up to at least 5K. MUA's spend money on education, travel, products, etc. We all spend $$.

Agreed Claire. The really good models who have made a serious investment in their careers, usually don't need the services of photographers such as the one you mentioned. If a model is starting out tho, or has a tendency to show up with the only clothes on her back, then it's a different story.

Envy wrote:
Oh hell I'd say 70% of the time the models responding to these casting have no idea what they are responding to. Which may be the case here.

I could post a casting telling models I would pay them $1,000 for 4 hours of shooting, 3-4 looks, all images edited and on a CD. But, I would have to cut off their left foot.
I'd get about 20 "I'm interested, let me know if I have what it takes"  responses.

Currently there's a casting call for a 'happa' model to travel to China.  'Happa' means half asian, half white.  The definition is also explained in one of the messages on the thread.

Despite that, it's remarkable how many models that do not fit the description in any way (many that are neither white or Asian) responded by saying "I'm interested!"

In the early days of MM, there was a very popular thread where some guy was offering $15,000 to do a photo shoot.   I forgot the details of it, but the whole thing was a parody... but many models responded to it anyways. 

It got to a point where the original poster edited one of the first few posts to say "The Message is a Satire.  It's not a Real Job Offer.  It is a Joke!"... yet the models kept on responding to it!

Finally, a whole discussion about that message and thread appeared in a different forum.  There was no other casting call or announcement... it was simply a group of people discussing the original message, trying to figure out why these dumb models were responding... and unbelievably... some of the models started posting "I'm Interested" messages in that thread as well!

UnoMundo Photography wrote:
claire, why dont you just PAY your photographer and have all the rights and copyright. Then no argument!   case is closed!

Lets see.......because I did that once and got screwed. But since this has nothing to do with me paying anyone.........

Fons Studio wrote:
Assuming the photographer is legit, he's going to bring 5000.00$-10000.00$ worth of equipment to the shoot, plus his expertise. Her investment ?

What has that to do with the value she's getting out of the deal?? That may or may not be a valid argument, but it's not the issue here.

Theoretically...

He's getting photos he will be selling to stock.

She, being that she must edit her own pics and is likely not an expert, and has to do her own makeup, and is also likely not an expert at that either, is probably going to get pics that aren't worth that much, in terms of getting paid jobs or printing for a book or comp. So....

he makes $$$, she make -$$$

one-sided....IMHO

Fons Studio wrote:
Assuming the photographer is legit, he's going to bring 5000.00$-10000.00$ worth of equipment to the shoot, plus his expertise. Her investment ?

My camera body and lenses are worth more than that alone..

EMG STUDIOS wrote:

My camera body and lenses are worth more than that alone..

There you go !

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

Lets see.......because I did that once and got screwed. But since this has nothing to do with me paying anyone.........

You get what you pay for?

Envy wrote:

Oh hell I'd say 70% of the time the models responding to these casting have no idea what they are responding to. Which may be the case here.

I could post a casting telling models I would pay them $1,000 for 4 hours of shooting, 3-4 looks, all images edited and on a CD. But, I would have to cut off their left foot.
I'd get about 20 "I'm interested, let me know if I have what it takes"  responses.

Oh shit- do it please!!

EMG STUDIOS wrote:

My camera body and lenses are worth more than that alone..

My boobs alone are worth that.

Adrienne Aurora wrote:

Oh shit- do it please!!

I'm sure the mods would not find it nearly as funny as we would.

Envy wrote:

I'm sure the mods would not find it nearly as funny as we would.

That Bogus Agency thread is still one of the greats!!