Scott Evans wrote:
I encourage all to STOP BEING AFFRAID and follow suit!

It's not a matter of being afraid. It's a matter of good advertising practice. The portfolios here are advertising your talent. If you decide to put negative content in your portfolio, people are going to view you as a negative person.

Mikel Featherston wrote:

It's not a matter of being afraid. It's a matter of good advertising practice. The portfolios here are advertising your talent. If you decide to put negative content in your portfolio, people are going to view you as a negative person.

I am not putting negative content on my portfolio.  And with all do respect MM is in no way advertising.  It is a site that lets everyone beg for TFP work.  I use my own website as my marketing tool, not a modeling site?

Scott Evans wrote:
* Fake sickness is this; When you tell me on Thursday that Fridays is nto good to shoot because you have a wet t-shot/bikini contest Friday night, and Saturday would be better do NOT call me Saturday at 10:30 to tell me that you are NOT going to make our 10:00 shoot and say you are sick. 

At least be honest and say; "I was out last night late, got drunk, am hung over and feel like poop, can we  reschedule"?  I will still be miffed but at least I would have respected your honesty!

I had that happen to me, then she went and shot later that day with another photographer. It flat out destroyed her career before it even got off the ground because the agency that commissioned me to shoot her found out and promptly dropped her.

BCI Photo wrote:

I had that happen to me, then she went and shot later that day with another photographer. It flat out destroyed her career before it even got off the ground because the agency that commissioned me to shoot her found out and promptly dropped her.

Flake models AND flake photographers make it more difficult for the true professionals out there is all I am saying.  Photographers and models show know the "flake history" before they book an shoot.  If they still choose to book them, then great!  If not then that wors too. 

I run a business, not Unicef!

Scott Evans wrote:
I am not putting negative content on my portfolio.  And with all do respect MM is in no way advertising.  It is a site that lets everyone beg for TFP work.  I use my own website as my marketing tool, not a modeling site?

Agreed ....I don't think there's anything wrong with a little accountability. This is a networking site. True, by being here you are advertising to a certain degree but for the most part, most of us professionals have a regular website to do the mainstream 'advertising' and this is nothing more than a networking site. So if you are going to take the time to be on this site....have the common decency to show up to a shoot and be professional in turn. I think it's a damn good idea Scott. And you're right, it's not done out of negativity but for a common standard that we should ALL adhere to.  MK

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
If I was interested in working with you "the list" wouldn't deter me ot make me think you're negative,

Agreed. I think it's a good idea to make a list.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
If I was interested in working with you "the list" wouldn't deter me ot make me think you're negative,

Then the list works!  I have many great references and have worked hard on my reputation and if you would not work with me because of a list, then, oh well!  Sorry to be so blunt but that is how it is I guess. 

Models do not hesitate to list photogs who have perved on them, not delivered images etc, why is this any different?

Blue Water Photography wrote:
That's gonna be a long list........

LMAO !!!! FYI,.,,,love the Avi!

Michael Kirst wrote:

Agreed ....I don't think there's anything wrong with a little accountability. This is a networking site. True, by being here you are advertising to a certain degree but for the most part, most of us professionals have a regular website to do the mainstream 'advertising' and this is nothing more than a networking site. So if you are going to take the time to be on this site....have the common decency to show up to a shoot and be professional in turn. I think it's a damn good idea Scott. And you're right, it's not done out of negativity but for a common standard that we should ALL adhere to.  MK

A C C O U N T A B I L I T Y could nto have said it better myself

JT Hodges wrote:
I don't work with models with a negative list. I don't have time to figure out the whole story, nor do I really care that much.

Keep it positive if you want to have a list.

Well then I will take down my list

Gary Davis wrote:
1. IMO, it is negative and I would be reluctant to work with someone with such a list.
2. Putting others down to make yourself look better is just sad.
3. I'm not going to hunt through other photographers profiles to look for "flakey" models.
4. Other models/photographers are going to do what they want, you can't change that so there's no point in worrying about it.

Shit happens - get over it, move on, or give up.  You can reduce the number of flakes by just being careful about who you work with.  Putting up a "list" is just being lazy and bitter.

That's my opinion.

WoW someone who does not even know me calling me lazy, and stupid!  And this is the same someone who did nto bother to read in detail the post?  Interesting  I will spae the name calling on my end

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
Bad idea...if you start doing this it's going to make you sound like some bitter asshole who holds grudges. I would never work with a photographer with a list like that in their profile.

I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea. While I see the point of your comments and understand where you're coming from, "flaking" is still a big problem for everyone.

If I could find out a model I didn't know had a habit of flaking, then it would save everyone - me, my assistants, MUA's/Stylists - time and money not to committ to work with that person - not mention the aggravation. The same benefit could be had by models for photographers. We all know photographers flake as well.

The bottom line is, this ain't my hobby. I do this to pay my bills and put food on my table. When a model flakes, he/she is spending my money and my time. At the least, it pisses me off; at the worst, I lose $$$ because of an individual's irresponsibility, lack of accountability and lack of common courtesy.

FWIW -

Bill

Scott Evans wrote:
WoW someone who does not even know me calling me lazy, and stupid!  And this is the same someone who did nto bother to read in detail the post?  Interesting  I will spae the name calling on my end

I didn't call you anything and didn't even use the word "stupid".

And if you think there's an important detail I missed, please point it out.

Nerlande wrote:
Well just for fun, I'm gonna make a list of people who have nothing better to do.

starting....

now.

NOW that is a list LMAO !

Nerlande wrote:
Well just for fun, I'm gonna make a list of people who have nothing better to do.

starting....

now.

Wouldn't that include.....you??

Point well taken --

Nerlande wrote:
Well just for fun, I'm gonna make a list of people who have nothing better to do.

starting....

now.

Blue Water Photography wrote:
Wouldn't that include.....you??

Point well taken --

Touche.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Yeah, I'd say posting such a list is negative.  As far as I'm concerned, your listing of a model would require me to believe your story, which I'm not prepared to do without hearing her side of the story.  But your posting the list is a clear indication of vindictiveness, which is unprofessional to me.  If a model gets on your list, you are free to not work with her again.  Why are you trying to enlist the rest of us?

Again, point well taken -

Ok, the list WOULD be a bad idea......

McKenzie Bros Photo wrote:
I would be so much easier if the admin...would put a little feature that allowed photogs to rate models and models to rate photogs...kinda like ebay...
Hmmm, thats a good idea?

That would never work...just like it does not work on Ebay. Sure it works on the positive side....if both people do their part they both get a little positive mark. but if one person does their part and then the other does not do theirs......the person who screwed up just leaves a negative comment to get back at the other person. So if you used that on MM the same thing would happen. If a photographer set up all of his/her stuff and the model did not show we all know what would happen. If the photographer left a bad rating, the model would do the same just to get back at him/her (and yes....the roles can be switched....I know that their are just as many flaky photographers out there as flaky models). This all comes down to one simple piece of advice. Get references before you set up a shoot. Get them and check them. Get in touch with at least 3 people they have worked with.....5 would be better.
As for making a list on your own portfolio.....go ahead and do it but if you are doing it for any other reason that making yourself feel better do not bother. Who is going to check your portfolio to see about a model? But if the list makes you feel better.....post it.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Yeah, I'd say posting such a list is negative.  As far as I'm concerned, your listing of a model would require me to believe your story, which I'm not prepared to do without hearing her side of the story.  But your posting the list is a clear indication of vindictiveness, which is unprofessional to me.  If a model gets on your list, you are free to not work with her again.  Why are you trying to enlist the rest of us?

Well put.  Vindictive, that's the word I was looking for...

Thomas B wrote:

That would never work...just like it does not work on Ebay. Sure it works on the positive side....if both people do their part they both get a little positive mark. but if one person does their part and then the other does not do theirs......the person who screded up just leaves a negative comment to get back at the other person. So if you used that on MM the same thing would happen. If a photographer set up all of his/her stuff and the model did not show we all know what would happen. If the photographer left a bad rating, the model would do the same just to get back at him/her (and yes....the roles can be switched....I know that their are just as many flaky photographers out there as flaky models). This all comes down to one simple piece of advice. Get references before you set up a shoot. Get them and check them. Get in touch with at least 3 people they have worked with.....5 would be better.
As for making a list on your own portfolio.....go ahead and do it but if you are doing it for any other reason that making yourself feel better do not bother. Who is going to check your portfolio to see about a model? But if the list makes you feel better.....post it.

I TOOK THE LIST DOWN LOL,,,,LMAO,.,.....bad idea :-)

Thomas B wrote:

That would never work...just like it does not work on Ebay. Sure it works on the positive side....if both people do their part they both get a little positive mark. but if one person does their part and then the other does not do theirs......the person who screded up just leaves a negative comment to get back at the other person. So if you used that on MM the same thing would happen. If a photographer set up all of his/her stuff and the model did not show we all know what would happen. If the photographer left a bad rating, the model would do the same just to get back at him/her (and yes....the roles can be switched....I know that their are just as many flaky photographers out there as flaky models). This all comes down to one simple piece of advice. Get references before you set up a shoot. Get them and check them. Get in touch with at least 3 people they have worked with.....5 would be better.
As for making a list on your own portfolio.....go ahead and do it but if you are doing it for any other reason that making yourself feel better do not bother. Who is going to check your portfolio to see about a model? But if the list makes you feel better.....post it.

I TOOK THE LIST DOWN LOL,,,,LMAO,.,.....bad idea :-)  It really never was about control, or making ME feel better.  It was about starting a dialogue on how in the world to help out the people who really are professional weed out those who are not serious or prefessional.  It was not a matter of me being "lazy" as Blue Water put it.  It is nto because I am "sad" or vindictive.  It was about improving communication, it was about helping those who really wanted to do this for a living.

Scott Evans wrote:
I TOOK THE LIST DOWN LOL,,,,LMAO,.,.....bad idea :-)  It really never was about control, or making ME feel better.  It was about starting a dialogue on how in the world to help out the people who really are professional weed out those who are not serious or prefessional.  It was not a matter of me being "lazy" as Blue Water put it.  It is nto because I am "sad" or vindictive.  It was about improving communication, it was about helping those who really wanted to do this for a living.

Alright, fair enough, but as you can see, it's easy to interpret your intentions differently

FWIW, I share experiences - good or bad - with other photographers I know personally, but I'm not going to make it public.

Scott Evans wrote:
Here is how you get on this list:

--  Simply NO SHOW
--  Call the morning of to cancel
--  Pretend sickness is not an excuse*
--  All shoots have been confiormed via e-mail

I agree that there is no excuse for a no-show.  I can definitely understand how that would disgust you and cause you to lose interest in shooting with that model in the future.  But as far as a model calling that morning to cancel, as much as it sucks for you to get that last-minute cancellation, that may happen sometimes and the model shouldn't automatically be considered a flake, in that scenario.  I go to New York a lot via bus/train for a weekend stay, and I recently had an early-morning shoot scheduled with a New York photographer.  I needed to get to the closest Amtrak train station (Aberdeen...which has a very limited train schedule) but, unfortunately, I ended up with a cab driver who didn't know where the hell my house was (even though that same cab company has been to my house several times before).  So I ended up missing my train and had to catch the next one (which cost $30 more!) which was two or three hours after that one.  I knew that by the time I got to New York, my time slot for the shoot would have ended and the photographer would be shooting his next model.  I was really frustrated, but I called to let him know what happened.  He was so kind and understanding, and he said that a lot of models aren't responsible enough to call to cancel, so he was glad that I had the decency to call (rather than not show up at all).  So he and  I definitely plan on shooting in the future when I can get back up to NY again.  Anyway, sometimes a model can have a good reason to cancel a shoot the same day...That "reliable" babysitter bailed at the last minute and the model has no other options, etc. 

Would you really put someone on your list just because they confirmed via e-mail???  If they try to confirm via e-mail, you should ask for their number (and/or ask that they call you) so you can have a phone conversation prior to shooting.  Make it clear that you will not schedule the shoot until you get their contact info and you two have had a phone conversation.  The model should have the photographers' phone number, and the photographer should have the model's phone number.  State in the e-mail that if they don't give you a phone number (or if they don't call you), you will assume that they're no longer interested in shooting.  The Internet is a wonderful thing, but when it comes to scheduling things, such as photo shoots, e-mail should not be the only method of communication.  You can never be 100% sure that the other person has read your e-mail in time, and it's good to have a home/cell phone number.  This can help eliminate misunderstandings and any confusion. 

Sorry for the long post, guys.