Photographer
Gary Davis
Posts: 1829
San Diego, California, US
Photographer
Mickle Design Werks
Posts: 5967
Washington, District of Columbia, US
[devil's advoacte]
Perhaps the photographer want to work with those he perceives are just as serious as he is and was counting on you to be groomed to be on his team.
[/devil's advocate]
I think the way he addressed you was rude and arrogant if what you say is how it wnt down.
I do see weakness in your portfolio as noted above your face areas are not that clean and the color choices are not appropriate to the background/location. But overall I like your creativity. I'd work with you.
Makeup Artist
Nina G Artistry
Posts: 363
Houston, Alaska, US
Devil's Advocate is good!!! I actually did want to know what was going through his mind...It just kind of erked me...sorry guys, I said before that I was being sensitive today!!!
...I know my port needs improvement!!! I am working on it!
Makeup Artist
myles oreilly
Posts: 24
Westminster, Colorado, US
Theres room for improvement in your work, mainly with coverage(and the photographs themselves),but we should never be satisfied. Youve got what it takes to do this,you just need some basics. contact me and Ill help you out-ive been teaching this stuff for seven years,Id love to help you make him eat his words!! Dont give up!Your creativity is natural-technique will be easy-I wish you were one of my students,and I wish I was smart enough to study physics!
Photographer
Halcyon 7174 NYC
Posts: 20109
New York, New York, US
I'm often frustrated by the hordes of fair weather artists one finds here, but telling you that you don't belong here he is just being a jerk, and it is probably a psychological reflection of his own feelings if inadequacy in the field. The fact that you try is enough for a berth of respect.
Photographer
J Merrill Images
Posts: 1412
Harvey, Illinois, US
BCI Photo wrote:
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?? Best damn comment I have seen here is ages. Practice! Play the piano 'til your fingers bleed - that's how you get to Carnegie!
It is also what I use as an explanation for why I choose to shoot mostly TFCD and am not particularly concerned about making money right now. When I get my "chops" down so tight that I can make magic in a few frames, and nail the assignment every single time, I'll worry about money. Until then I'll shoot mostly for free and practice, practice, practice! It's fun, I learn and improve, and some very nice young women get photos for nothing more than a little effort. Works for me!
Makeup Artist
Ivy Lam
Posts: 101
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I have a fine arts degree too and I did not go to makeup school. I think that the more you do it the more you will learn from others and your own mistakes. Who ever the photographer is, I am sure he did not take beautiful pics from day one. Most of it must be trial and error.
One important thing that I learned that may relate to you bc of your fine arts background, is that. the face is NOT a canvas. it is very different from fine arts. Each person has unique features and its our job to bring out their best, enhance what is already there and correct the things that stick out (pimples, scars). Over doing it may take away for the model rather than making her beautiful. Do you understand what I mean?
One thing that relates to fine Arts is that, each stroke must have a purpose. Remember to ask yourself why, why are you putting feathers on the model? What is the artistic expression? how will the feather convey this message?
If the feather is for "decorative" purposes only. Then you should rethink your whole concept.
Hope you understand what I am saying. Its pretty late here in Toronto!
All the best,
Ivy
Model
A BRITT PRO-AM
Posts: 7840
CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US
Wish you all the best with the physics!
and any avenues, creative or otherwise!!
I see from you comments that people loved working with you, and were happy,
and thats what counts. If you and the clients like the work, dont worry about improving your skills or go with your heart. I can see that he felt it needed polish and I can see why, as I dont personally think that these particular pictures are showing such great make up work, but thats a matter of taste and style...
So, all in all I would say Enjoy it, but you have more to focus on. I'd also say 'A great mind should not be wasted, and yet Art is everything'.
:-)
Model
MaryPetiteModel
Posts: 55
Los Angeles, California, US
Nina G Artistry wrote:
This really isn't about my work, this is more about whether or not it is acceptable to continue working in an industry that you may or may not choose as your career for th erest of your life. Acceptable? By whose standards? Who on Earth cares?
Time was when the Rennaissance man was revered. When did it become so terrible to *want* to do more than one thing? To be a well-rounded person with many interests? Do what makes you happy, I say!
These so-called "mentors" need to ignored a lot of the time. If you dig deep into the personalities of many of them, they are often quite bitter.
It's your life...live it for yourself...opinons be damned.
Model
CUnique
Posts: 366
Bowie, Maryland, US
Nina G Artistry wrote:
I have been talking to this photographer for a while...He has been relatively hard on me (concerning my work) but I very much appreciate his honesty and help. Recently he sent me a message saying that I may benefit from talking a few classes geared toward makeup for print...I responded by saying that I have looked into seminars and such but since I am already a full time student at a major university studying physics, I really do not have much time for a full class!!
I love my artististic side. In fact I started college as a fine arts major. Makeup artistry for me is a wonderful experience and I may very well choose to make it my career if I feel I am capable in the future. I am constantly researching other makeup artists and I have befriended several on MM who have helped me improve. I, however, love my schooling and I am proud that I am able to balance the two quite nicely.
The photographer, however, responded to me by telling me that if this isn't my career choice that I do not belong here...I was told that my work shows quite drastically that I do not take it seriously and that he hopes no one will waste their time on me...
Do others share his opinion? Is anyone else offended that I do not completely intend on making this my career choice?? I love my artistry and I admire those who have made it a career, but is it fair to say that it is either all or nothing??? Human beings are complex creatures...I think my two cents can only get you so far...it helps to stay in tune to your own feelings however and what you feel you want to do in life.
There are general rules that apply to us all:
1. Tap into your full potential
2. Yes, a creature as complex as a human being is capable of having much more then only one talent...and over your lifespan you may do many things (and be great at it).
3. You can never place as much claim to something as someone who has devoted there life to the art (thats just reality) `but` if you have a true talent and you follow through with it with passion and hard work then you deffnately desserve to be here.
4. Its a free country...if its legal try it...there are people who will suck (sorry to use that word people) and they will devote many years to something they suck at...but you have to respect the fact that everyone has a right to do what makes them happy.
5. You don't need to seek justification...nobody needs to justify anything unless you are a child and under someone elses control...just ask people who you admire their opinion and remember they are fallible creatures themselves and it is only (their opinion).
Hope that helps. :-)
Photographer
A. H A M I L T O N
Posts: 325
Coventry, England, United Kingdom
Harsh, but somewhat true.
The relationship between a photographer and their preferred make up artists is very important. They need to be able to count on each other, learn from each other, grow, and challenge each other.
I don't know many in Houston who are full time professional photographers, but there are a couple...it's an even smaller market than Dallas and Dallas is pretty small.
You can be a full time professional or a part time professional but the point is being professional and putting the time, dedication, and effort to improve to a level of competent skill.
There are hobbiest on this site who are absolutely amazing and have some beautiful work, and there are some full time working folks who's work is absolutely abysmal.
No, I don't think you should leave MM because you aren't more serious about this as a career. However, don't be suprised or offended when working professionals have no need or use for your services.
Andy
Model
AlexandraC
Posts: 239
Chicago, Illinois, US
Don't let people bring you down, they don't know what you're made of. Your make-up is quite interesting, but in my opinion, you just need to get with better photographers for future shoots.
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
Rich Davis wrote:
I've been an engineer by profession for 35 years. Photography is a great hobby. I love being an engineer and I love taking poictures. But I am glad to be an engineer first. Amen, brother from a fellow enginer!
Photographer
Mark Brummitt
Posts: 40527
Clarkston, Michigan, US
Nina G Artistry wrote:
Its really not about anyone telling me what to do...If I listened to what others had to say I would probably be an accountant like my mother LOL. I am basically just wondering if this opinion is shared by a majority of others in the industry...
Yes I am a smart girl...thanks for the compliments on my work...This really isn't about my work, this is more about whether or not it is acceptable to continue working in an industry that you may or may not choose as your career for th erest of your life. Bottom line is, this is not a site for just professionals. The only money I make with photography is the corporate events. Will that change in the future? God, I hope not. Once I start taking money for something it becomes a whole lot like work, like I am forced to produce.
Leave it at what it is, one persons opinion.
Makeup Artist
Nina G Artistry
Posts: 363
Houston, Alaska, US
A. H A M I L T O N wrote:
Harsh, but somewhat true.
The relationship between a photographer and their preferred make up artists is very important. They need to be able to count on each other, learn from each other, grow, and challenge each other.
I don't know many in Houston who are full time professional photographers, but there are a couple...it's an even smaller market than Dallas and Dallas is pretty small.
You can be a full time professional or a part time professional but the point is being professional and putting the time, dedication, and effort to improve to a level of competent skill.
There are hobbiest on this site who are absolutely amazing and have some beautiful work, and there are some full time working folks who's work is absolutely abysmal.
No, I don't think you should leave MM because you aren't more serious about this as a career. However, don't be suprised or offended when working professionals have no need or use for your services.
Andy Hi Andy-
Thanks for the input, but as I said before, I do put quite a large amount of energy toward my "hobby" or "career" and the development thereof!! I had been talking to this photographer who was very willing to work with me (despite my need for improvement) simply based on the work that I have on MM. We have soley been discussing TFP /TFCD so I am not sure what this man had to lose.
My issue is not with him rejecting me based on my work...had this been the case, I would have moved on...I have been rejected before and its absolutely not an issue (it is in fact motivation for improvement). My issue is that he rejected me only because I am aspiring to possibly do something other that makeup for the rest of my life.
I am quite proud of my accomplishments in both and I am more than 100% willing to give both of my interests (physics, and makeup artistry) my all!! I, however, am not willing to give either one my all only to be rejected due to the fact that I do not eat, sleep, and drink makeup!!!
Now I know this is really going to erk someone but my makeup artistry is just that...an art form. I do not do this to make a statement. I do not do this to express myself in a matter of speaking. I do it mainly for the asthetics involved. I find my work and the work of many talented people on this site asthetically pleasing and to me this in itself is the great accomplishment! I am so tired and bored of everyone here using their art (something that should be appreciated, and revered) to hitch themselves up on that high horse!! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ATTACH MEANING TO EVERY PEICE OF ART YOU CREATE FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED ART!!! This my friends is the difference between narrative, semi-narrative, and simple abstraction!!!
I did not intend on offending anyone...I appologize if I have...I just am so tired of reading all of the bantering! Its F^&%ing NUTS
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
Kevin Bargeron wrote:
why do people need to have other's tell them what to do to feel justified? Do what you want, do what you like. You may have time when finished with 'proper' schooling to do something artistic. Maybe contact the theater department at your school about doing make-up for plays and other productions. they may even be able to provide products for you to use (although that may not be very likely).
Physics is hard. You're a smart girl. Make up your own mind and do what you want. OR you can do a lot of the things you want. Who says a "career decision" has to become your sole purpose and focus in life? You are a smart girl, and you should know how to multi-task. You should be able to do the things that you love. Who cares what some douche says about your work. Do you love doing it? Then keep it up. The best way to get better is from experience. And no, it doesn't have to be the only thing you're doing.
Photographer
Tim Baker-fotoPerfecta
Posts: 9877
Portland, Oregon, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
Are you kidding me? I did my undergrad in physics (astro) and completely gave up on ever finding a decently-paying position in the field.
I went into computers, instead, which had nothing to do with what I studied. Most people confuse the concept of graduating from a four year degree program with the professional of getting a 'job' in the field. A four year degree, unless it's a professional degree (e.g., nursing, pharmacy, accounting, teaching, et.) that trains one for a specific career, is an entry level document that prepares graduates for degrees in a wide number of fields; some are related, most are not. If someone truly want's to 'work' in one's chosen field of study, the generally must further their education. I would assume that most of NASA managers, engineers, flight operations, and even astronauts will have a degree higher than a B.S./B.A. degree.
/tim
Makeup Artist
Nina G Artistry
Posts: 363
Houston, Alaska, US
Wynd Mulysa wrote:
OR you can do a lot of the things you want. Who says a "career decision" has to become your sole purpose and focus in life? You are a smart girl, and you should know how to multi-task. You should be able to do the things that you love. Who cares what some douche says about your work. Do you love doing it? Then keep it up. The best way to get better is from experience. And no, it doesn't have to be the only thing you're doing. Thanks Wynd!! *Deep breaths Nina deep breaths*
Photographer
Tim Baker-fotoPerfecta
Posts: 9877
Portland, Oregon, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
Are you kidding me? I did my undergrad in physics (astro) and completely gave up on ever finding a decently-paying position in the field.
I went into computers, instead, which had nothing to do with what I studied. Most people confuse the concept of graduating from a four year degree program with the professional goal of getting a 'job' in the field. A four year degree, unless it's a professional degree (e.g., nursing, pharmacy, accounting, teaching, et.) that trains one for a specific career, is an entry level document that prepares graduates for degrees in a wide number of fields; some are related, most are not. If someone truly want's to 'work' in one's chosen field of study, the generally must further their education. I would assume that most of NASA managers, engineers, flight operations, and even astronauts will have a degree higher than a B.S./B.A. degree.
/tim
Makeup Artist
Nina G Artistry
Posts: 363
Houston, Alaska, US
Tim Baker wrote:
Most people confuse the concept of graduating from a four year degree program with the professional goal of getting a 'job' in the field. A four year degree, unless it's a professional degree (e.g., nursing, pharmacy, accounting, teaching, et.) that trains one for a specific career, is an entry level document that prepares graduates for degrees in a wide number of fields; some are related, most are not. If someone truly want's to 'work' in one's chosen field of study, the generally must further their education. I would assume that most of NASA managers, engineers, flight operations, and even astronauts will have a degree higher than a B.S./B.A. degree.
/tim You said it brotha!!! That is why I am applying to grad school...and I am working on my internship with NASA nonetheless!! Besides I'm a genious, so I will succeed either way 
Photographer
Halcyon 7174 NYC
Posts: 20109
New York, New York, US
Nina G Artistry wrote:
Besides I'm a genious, so I will succeed either way Check your spelling, genius.
Photographer
A. H A M I L T O N
Posts: 325
Coventry, England, United Kingdom
Ah, it's an art thing. I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.
When you referred to the "industry" you said something to many that suggests to many you're talking about the actual business of print/film/broadcast.
At this point, you're a hobbiest and as such it doesn't really matter what the industry thinks, because you're admittedly not even trying to be a part of it.
If you were trying to be a part of it, only part time, then you'd have to be much more concerned with what the industry thinks and feels about those at your level...and in that case, it would be widely common for people to blow you off as not really having the ambition to make it in the field. It's highly competitive, and it's too easy to find someone who's willing to slave away for even a minor opportunity to bother with those who won't.
Andy
Makeup Artist
Nina G Artistry
Posts: 363
Houston, Alaska, US
Ched wrote:
Check your spelling, genius. OOPS!! Well my typo really didn't help me get that point across, did it???? Hahahhaha
*blushes profusely*
(hope i spelled this correctly)
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