Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I have 4 questions: *First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!" *Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them?? *Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road?? *Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED??  **pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO  OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES ME LOOK MORE POPULAR AND THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS.
Photographer
Incident Image
Posts: 342
Los Angeles, California, US
What's the point of starting a thread where the questions really have no definite answers?
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Because it's almost 6 am. I can't sleep, I'm bored, and I can't think of anything better to do.
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
By the way, I love your work and I know you make $500 a day shooting Artistically NAKED girls.
Photographer
Incident Image
Posts: 342
Los Angeles, California, US
LMAO!!! Yes, Im flying out to Jamaica in a few hours to shoot a week of that "arty" stuff.
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Incident Image wrote:
LMAO!!! Yes, Im flying out to Jamaica in a few hours to shoot a week of that "arty" stuff. Someday I gotta get you to show me how to do that. You know, fly all over the world taking pictures of beautiful women and making a ton of money to boot.
Photographer
Incident Image
Posts: 342
Los Angeles, California, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
Someday I gotta get you to show me how to do that. You know, fly all over the world taking pictures of beautiful women and making a ton of money to boot. haha i dont make a ton of money. the producers do, though thats the next step.
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
What's the next step?? Clarify~!
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I need some artistically naked girls in my port don't I~???
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I'm going to bed. Later Incident. Enjoy Jamaca, $500 a day, and all the artistically naked girls.
Photographer
Joe Koz
Posts: 1981
Lititz, Pennsylvania, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!"
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them??
*Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road??
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED??
**pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES PEOPLE THINK I'M GOOD. 1.) Yes, mam!
2.) When you figure it out, let me know.
3.) Yes and no.
4.) WTF does nudity have to do with morality! There's an old Frank Zappa tune titled "What's the Ugliest Part of your Body?" The second line of the of the song is "I think it's your mind."
I understand "artistic nude" ... but I'm not sure my mind quite grasps the phrase "artistically naked". That and the question relating nudity with morality suggests maybe your filtering something through your personal baggage?
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Joe Kozlowski wrote:
4.) WTF does nudity have to do with morality! There's an old Frank Zappa tune titled "What's the Ugliest Part of your Body?" The second line of the of the song is "I think it's your mind."
I understand "artistic nude" ... but I'm not sure my mind quite grasps the phrase "artistically naked". That and the question relating nudity with morality suggests maybe your filtering something through your personal baggage? Yes, I'm always filtering. "Artistically Naked" is something that just came off the top of my head around 6 am. after being up all night. Maybe it'll catch on~! I'll go put a smiley face behind the morality question so people will know I was just playing. Maybe just trying to stir up some sh*t with the moral majority or the church down the street. I don't know. ::shrugs:: I need sleep.
Photographer
Ty Simone
Posts: 2885
Edison, New Jersey, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!" You discuss it with your wife, and if she still does not understand, you respect her wishes.
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them?? There are a ton of girls that will do TFP /TFCD nudes. It should be easy to find them here and at the other site.
*Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road?? Depends on what it is you plan on doing in the future. I make a decent amount of money doing my artwork, and have had models pay me to do artwork for them. So there are business models available where you can make money off of AN's.
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED?? Of course not. Even the religious fanatics have to admit that according to the bible man and women were created without clothes and it was the Devil that told them they were naked and needed to cover up.
So which is better, running around like God wanted you, or like the devil did?
Just me 2 cents there.
**pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES PEOPLE THINK I'M ONE OF THE BETTER PHOTOGRAPHERS. Bah, wanbt comments, say something controversial here, then some yahoos will write bad things, and then others will defend you and you have comments.......
Photographer
Eli Ceballos
Posts: 208
Brooklyn, New York, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED?? Define girls...
My wife is having similar issues, but she wont tell me...but i can tell she is ready to burst. I am thinking of ways to set her mind at ease...being totally devoted and honest with her is irrelevant.
Eli
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4159
Deming, New Mexico, US
Well I am sure you will impress the models with that crotch shot. bs
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
bobby sargent wrote:
Well I am sure you will impress the models with that crotch shot. bs You mean the one I just sold an archival print of to a collector in San Francisco?
Photographer
ChristopherRoss
Posts: 1559
Eškašem, Badakhshan, Afghanistan
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!" You choose between your wife and your camara. or ... you tell your wife *why* you need to shoot nudes without pay.
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them?? pay a couple of really good art models, then use those shots are marketing material at the local college or art school.
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road?? depends on what type of work you're going for. nudity sells, but if you're trying to do weddings, i doubt it.
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED?? it may not be neo-Christian but it's immoral, great artists throughout time captured nudes of both men and women. It becomes immoral if you're only doing it because it's the only way you can see a girl naked.
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
**pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES ME LOOK MORE POPULAR AND THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS.
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
bobby sargent wrote:
Well I am sure you will impress the models with that crotch shot. bs Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
You mean the one I just sold an archival print of to a collector in San Francisco? Actually now that you mention it, I've had three other models request I shoot them with various dolls and in similar poses. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it brother.
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 13019
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!" You could ask your wife why she thinks arbitrary ultimatums will help the relationship?
Try to discuss what about nudes are an issue to her,
And she could try to understand why shooting nudes is important to you as a photographer.
If it's ok with her for you to shoot nudes for cash why is it not ok for self-promotion or just for the sake of art.
If nothing else a frank discussion might help you and her to understand what the other is thinking and to figure out a common solution.
Photographer
Scott Einuis
Posts: 337
New York, New York, US
Craig
You haven't completed ANY steps yet. Whether artistic nude is a step ahead, behind or even related at all, you for have to develop an eye for photos. Sorry to be harsh but you're still snapping pictures and taking photographs. The same thing will happen with nudes.
IMHO
Model
Mayanlee
Posts: 3560
New City, New York, US
crypticarts wrote:
Define girls...
My wife is having similar issues, but she wont tell me...but i can tell she is ready to burst. I am thinking of ways to set her mind at ease...being totally devoted and honest with her is irrelevant.
Eli It may APPEAR irrelevant to you ... you probably see the being honest and devoted as effort being wasted if you're not getting the desired result (ie, shoot nudes), but rest assured, it isn't. She's watching. In addition to the honesty and devotion, she may need the additional assurance that you'd be WILLING to forego the nude shooting, not just refrain from it. The clusterf*** is that probably once you show that willingness to forego it without regret (ie, you don't hold it against her), the realization that you are REALLY devoted to her (not a slam on your previous devotion... we women can just be kinda weird like that) will hit and be the trigger to make it okay with her eventually. In other words, you've just removed a tacit threat (illogical tho it may seem, an implied threat is still a threat).
If she felt there was nothing to worry about ... and don't listen to the words; watch the actions ... this wouldn't be an issue to begin with.
Model
Mayanlee
Posts: 3560
New City, New York, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!"
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them??
*Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road??
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED??
**pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES ME LOOK MORE POPULAR AND THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. 1) You get paid.
2) You be good at it.
3) Depends HOW good you are at it.
4) If you gotta ask, you already think it's immoral.
You use the term "artistically" rather loosely....
Regarding your last request, I can't say that I'd be tempted to work with someone who presents shooting fine art nudes in a rather low-brow manner. The use of "artistically naked" seems more like a poser trying to get into the country club. Yeah, yeah... you were tired, it was late/early, it was tongue-in-cheek, you'd probably word it differently if you were REALLY trying to attract quality models for your job ... but, whatever ...
Photographer
Mr Maki
Posts: 633
Tallahassee, Florida, US
as far as the wife thing goes: family is first. If she has issues with nudes, paid or not paid, then resolve those issues. How? with a shrink That she is OK with paid nudes says a lot about her values. I only shoot once or twice a month b/c of wife & kids. And then on location b/c I don't have room for a photo studio. And often it's at night, after the kids are in bed... or near sunset Set aside time for the wife. A "Date Night" if you will. To show that you are spending time on her as well as photography. I do art (oil, acrylic & watercolor) & photography for fun. I consider myself an amature b/c I don't get paid to shoot. And, realistically, I don't have the time right now. If there are any models NEAR Tallahassee, FL that want to do TFP/CD nudes with me; please contact me someone said there were tons of 'em out there
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6985
Fairbanks, Alaska, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!" Honey, I have a whole lot of pent up creativity and only one lifetime to express it. I chose to spend that lifetime with you, but there are lots of other women who will respect and support my creative pursuits. So, dear, it sounds like you have a choice to make.
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them?? Be visible, be honest, and be patient. Post ads in the art department at the local university. Keep a portfolio on MM and OMP. If you're just getting into nudes, say so up front. Don't try to BS anyone. If you have a spouse or friend who's interested, talk it over and see if they're willing to work with you. Also, don't get a big "I'm a pro, you're a shit model" attitude. I know it's heresy here on MM, but models are people and they have feelings and dreams. Treat them that way and you'll have a much better experience. There are plenty of open-minded girls out there interested in the art. If you let them know you're there and interested in shooting, you'll find someone interested in working with you.
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED?? Not to be blunt, but don't be stupid. If you think it's immoral, you shouldn't be considering it. You better work out the answer to that question for yourself well before you get a model in front of your camera.
Model
Mayanlee
Posts: 3560
New City, New York, US
Tim Hammond wrote:
Not to be blunt, but don't be stupid. If you think it's immoral, you shouldn't be considering it. You better work out the answer to that question for yourself well before you get a model in front of your camera. Oh, heck... be blunt. What's the worst that could happen to ya??
(Devil's Advocate at play)
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
*takes my chain away from Craig so he can't yank it anymore*
*takes Craig's pipe away*
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Although the tone of this thread isn't all that serious, I'll give a serious response:
a) If it causes friction in your marriage, perhaps doing nudes isn't worth the risk. If your woman ain't happy, you ain't happy.
b) Perhaps you can get your wife involved? Can she handle the make-up or the setting dressing? If she's there, perhaps many of her objections will disappear.
c) Perhaps having nude images in your portfolio may improve your traffic, but it is the quality of your images that will lead to profit down the road. So, how do you improve the quality of your images? Answer: practice, practice, practice.
d) Finding nude models & negotiating terms should be considered as part of the artistic process. And yes, nude models can demand higher fees than non-nude models.
e) It will be difficult to attract nude models without having made good nude images to show them. If you are really stumped, consider a nude photography workshop.
Photographer
Craig Seay
Posts: 8606
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!"
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them??
*Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road??
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED??
**pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES ME LOOK MORE POPULAR AND THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. I'm back and still haven't gotten to bed yet, shame on me. I just took a look at all the commentary and responses to my 4 questions and asked myself, "What did I say this morning around sunrise that's got everybody buzzing so seriously? I was trying to be funny again and my attempt at sarcastic wit and humor always seems to hit people funny, but not in a haha kind of way. Youâd think by now Iâd leave the comedy to the really funny guys. Maybe Iâm addicted to reaction in a not so healthy way. I must work on that.
I guess I'll go back and answer my own questions here so everyone interested can see where I really stand amidst the smoke and fire Iâve started here.
#1. My wife is ok with me shooting nudes as long as there's money in it and I'm not just out getting my rocks off. I understand that. I have been offered a few pages and possibly a cover in a respectable men's magazine Halloween issue because they like my gothic work. I'm considering that as a way to gain some experience and to finally get published. It's very kind of them to offer that to me, a novice, and I appreciate their faith in potential to pull it off.
#2 I already have standing offers to shoot nude with beautiful models who do artistic nude work so it's really a non-issue for me, as soon as I can work it out with my wife who thinks they should pay me. (About the question, I was just trying to solicit feedback from others who may be having trouble in this area and damn I act stupid sometimes~!)
#3 Was my only serious half way serious question and I appreciate the feedback.
#4 I know it's not immoral for me to shoot artistic nudity because my heart tells me so. Nudity is a natural and beautiful part of this life and is only perverted in the minds of those who have been conditioned to believe it is shameful.
And finally, to solicit comments on my images, even in a half joking way is a sign that I am not completely confident in my art yet and still need to be assured that it is reaching people in a positive way. Hopefully I'll outgrow this apparent weakness.
So there are my answers to my own questions and hopefully this thread will now be put to bed along with me. Thanks for being so kind to me with your heartfelt answers and commentary. There are some really caring and decent people here and I hope you will all look beyond my âup all nightâ? insensitivities and early morning dim wit and say âthereâs Craig; acting the fool again.â?
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
âthereâs Craig; acting the fool again.â? well *I* knew that LOL
Photographer
Daguerre
Posts: 4082
Orange, California, US
Craig Seay Artistry wrote:
I have 4 questions:
*First, how do you respond when your wife says "NO NUDES unless they pay you!"
*Second, How do you attract models to do artistic nudity TFCD or TFP when they won't pay you (hahaha) and you can't pay them??
*Third, we know artistic nudity helps to increase traffic to your port, but does it really help the photographer and model to improve their chances at turning a profit down the road??
*Last (but not least), IS IT really IMMORAL to photograph girls artistically NAKED??
**pLEASE bROWSE my PORT and tell me if you'd LIKE TO SEE any of my BEAUTIFUL MODELS ARTistically NAKED, and I'll see what I CAN DO OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES ME LOOK MORE POPULAR AND THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. 1. I was shooting nudes before we met. I can put you back where I found you. (Just kidding Honey.)
2. Display a portfolio of images so beautiful that models see it as a privalege to shoot with you and not be charged.
3. No.
4. Depends on the religion you subscribe to. The First Church of Artistic Nudity says it is not immoral to photograph nakedness as long as Chief Minister Longbone can personally certify that the nakedness adheres to the church's definition of art.
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OH, and PLEASE LEAVE A FEW COMMENTS before you leave; IT MAKES ME LOOK MORE POPULAR AND THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD FOR BUSINESS.