Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Not looking to start a flame war, and technically (since all I'm about right now is learning and honing whatever skills I have) it doesn't apply to me.. But since there was some banning going on in another thread I was hoping to educate myself in as lazy a way as possible..
*ramble off*
What's a sluggo?
What's an agency?
What do they do that's similar? What do they do that's different? And why is one better than another? Why is one bad and the other good?
Thanks in advance..
WGR
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
Excluding those that specialize in genres outside the typical commercial level boundaries, but not exclusive to gaining a better understanding of the industry as a whole, I think there is some essential required reading for both models and photographers that helps bring some clarity for each party working together. Unfortunately, it is often viewed similar to a reaction reserved for Beavis....uhhhh, words. www.newmodels.com
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Thanks.. I know I've read at least some of that site before.. Forgotten bits.. Read it again.. Looks like the internet modeling agency scam needs to be the next thing on my reading list..
Photographer
Doug Lester
Posts: 10591
Atlanta, Georgia, US
An agency, at least a legitimate brick and mortar agency, will find their signed models work in exchange for a commission, a percent of their pay usually about 20%. A legitimate agency has numerous contacts within the industry, and is contacted by ad agencies and others when models are needed for legitimate clients. A legitimate agency is the middle person between a real client and the model. Note the legitimate client pays everyoine involved.
A "sluggo" is a charlatan pretending to be an agent. The 'sluggo' can not find legitimate work work a model, in fact has no idea what legitimate work is. Ad agencies have never heard of him, so he does not receive notifications of casting calls or go-sees. If by some chance they have in fact heard of him, they will avoid the 'sluggo' like the plague, The 'sluggo' is motivated by a desire to make money from the model while providing no return service, to get into her pants, or to hoard the naive models who are silly enough to sign some sort of agreement with him, in order to keep them for his exclusive use, or all of the above..
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Doug Lester wrote:
An agency, at least a legitimate brick and mortar agency, will find their signed models work in exchange for a commission, a percent of their pay usually about 20%. A legitimate agency has numerous contacts within the industry, and is contacted by ad agencies and others when models are needed for legitimate clients. A legitimate agency is the middle person between a real client and the model. Note the legitimate client pays everyoine involved.
A "sluggo" is a charlatan pretending to be an agent. The 'sluggo' can not find legitimate work work a model, in fact has no idea what legitimate work is. Ad agencies have never heard of him, so he does not receive notifications of casting calls or go-sees. If by some chance they have in fact heard of him, they will avoid the 'sluggo' like the plague, The 'sluggo' is motivated by a desire to make money from the model while providing no return service, to get into her pants, or to hoard the naive models who are silly enough to sign some sort of agreement with him, in order to keep them for his exclusive use, or all of the above.. Ok, here's my question then (and this is not in support of scam artists)..
But let's say someone's trying to start a new agency (I'm not).. How would one get started if everyone who's not an agency but tries to do agency like things is a sluggo?
Just wondering if there's a monopoly going on here with agencies being able to lock out competition by default.. Monopolies are bad.. (I say this while typing on a Microsoft Keyboard, into a Windows machine, yada yada..)
I'm not particularly concerned about fashion.. They can take care of themselves.. I'm just wondering if there are or could be agencies started up towards smaller markets.. (I find the magazine as ludicrous a medium as most in the magazine industry find the concept of internet modeling..) So, I'm just wondering..
There's lots of different types of models out there working lots of different angles.. There's lots of different types of photographers doing out there doing lots of different things.. There's also a lot of creeps in the middle dragging everything down.. It seems like there'd be a market for any kind of service that streamlines the process and adds a little bit of legitimacy/accountability to the process, like, say, an agency?
But how does such a thing ever start if every new agent is a sluggo?
Once again, just asking.. I have no desire to represent or be represented by you..
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
WG Rowland wrote:
But let's say someone's trying to start a new agency (I'm not).. How would one get started if everyone who's not an agency but tries to do agency like things is a sluggo? Aside from Doug's thinking the motivation is pants related which I don't think is true to a large extent...it's usually more ego related in the thought of being an agency for those (sluggos) starting on a whim.
Many successful agencies are founded by...models. This is particularly true in smaller to mid markets where a successful model has "come home." They may have made a bundle of money, are intimately familiar with the internal workings of an agency and are experienced in spotting, molding, guiding and presenting models to clients. They can easily talk the talk, can spot flakes and can gain credibility through their past experiences. They know a good booker and how to train one for that position, perhaps the key element within an agency as they are often the starting point for delivering top client service.
Then there are those like Donald Trump and IMG, entities that have loads of money and use it for additional prestige...
Photographer
Nick Ryder
Posts: 317
Walnut Creek, California, US
Here's the deal, there are so-o-o many agencies that charge models extreme amounts of money to "groom them" and showcase them. The new breed of pond scum are the new generation of managers, they are herendous to try to deal with. Usually they are young, have no background whatsoever in the industry and end up doing more harm than good for a model. So, both a bogus agency or a manager with no credentials is a menace to the industry (not to mention the destruction of careers).
With that said, many photographers lump all the fraud agents and bogus managers into one big category, hence, "ALL MANAGERS & AGENTS BAD". It's just not true, a good manager and a strong agency working separately or in tandem can be the destinction of a model succeeding or failing. A manager can be instrumental in breaking a model, taking her from the developoment stages to getting her signed with a major agency. It is impossible for a photographer to effectively manage a model, both are speciality professions requiring seperation of the other.
I am on MM as a hobbyist photographer, I am here to learn more about photography, however, my straight job actually is in the modeling business, a few here know my background.
Trust me when I tell you, not all managers are bad, nor are all agencies bad, (I think there's more bad than good though, which makes it tough for those of us who are legit).
If I can be of any further assistance please feel free to leave me a personal message, I have many years of experience and have worked for all the major agencies, I have booked globally and am available if you have additional questions or comments.
There are some brilliant people on this site, i have learned a lot about photography, anything that I can give back to this community, I am more than happy to share my expereinces and wisdom.
In closing, I have noticed, the real pro's on this site haven't bashed agencies or managers, they have displayed an understanding and actually defined the role each they play in the bigger scope of things, the simpletons seem to come with name calling; "Pimps or parasites", while all super models have both a manager and an agency, it's impossible to navigate one's career without the aid of professionals.
Photographer
Doug Lester
Posts: 10591
Atlanta, Georgia, US
WG Rowland wrote:
Ok, here's my question then (and this is not in support of scam artists)..
But let's say someone's trying to start a new agency (I'm not).. How would one get started if everyone who's not an agency but tries to do agency like things is a sluggo?
Just wondering if there's a monopoly going on here with agencies being able to lock out competition by default.. Monopolies are bad.. (I say this while typing on a Microsoft Keyboard, into a Windows machine, yada yada..)
I'm not particularly concerned about fashion.. They can take care of themselves.. I'm just wondering if there are or could be agencies started up towards smaller markets.. (I find the magazine as ludicrous a medium as most in the magazine industry find the concept of internet modeling..) So, I'm just wondering..
There's lots of different types of models out there working lots of different angles.. There's lots of different types of photographers doing out there doing lots of different things.. There's also a lot of creeps in the middle dragging everything down.. It seems like there'd be a market for any kind of service that streamlines the process and adds a little bit of legitimacy/accountability to the process, like, say, an agency?
But how does such a thing ever start if every new agent is a sluggo?
Once again, just asking.. I have no desire to represent or be represented by you.. A couple of easy answers. Can any new business succeed if it's owner/manager knows nothing about the particular business? I know nothing about cooking or food preparation, so could I one day decide to become a caterer or open a new high end restaurant? But suppose I went out and learned everything I could learn about food?
First choice, before ever thinking of signing a model, learn the industry. Take a job with the best legit agency around and develop skills as a 'booker'. At the same time, make industry contacts and become known. Learn what type of model is needed/prefered for various gigs.
Second option, hire an experienced general manager and knowledgeable bookers. Understand that modeling is local, that an 'agency' in Short Arm Nebraska can't fill booking in NYC. Forget what we see alll of the time on the internet, "worldwide modeling", there is no such thing for beginning agents or models. Learn what is needed in your local area, including whether there is enough modeling to support a mainstream model agency. If there is no local modeling, then an honest agency can't survive.
Countless experienced and skilled booker have gone on their own, opening new agencies. But Joe Photoshooter can't do that, he needs a set of different and specific skills! Learn that because a model is signed, she doesn't become the property of the agency owner, not his to exclusively shoot with and not his sex toy. Learn why exclusive contracts are a horrible idea for a new model but woinderful for a new "sluggo" agent. In other words, learn the industry inside and out or hire those who know.
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