phcorcoran wrote:
... professional photographers, models, stylists, MUAs and everybody else in the modeling arena constantly needs new photos.

I agree with you in general however, if they are working in the industry then they are getting new stuff for their books and do not need to test. This is why you find people who do not test. In fact agencies discourage girls who are working regularly from testing because "they don't need to".

Fred Brown wrote:
I agree with you in general however, if they are working in the industry then they are getting new stuff for their books and do not need to test. This is why you find people who do not test. In fact agencies discourage girls who are working regularly from testing because "they don't need to".

If you are working regularly then you are getting work like the work you've already done.  If you want to still be in the business next year you have to be building a portfolio of kinds of work that you are not currently getting.  We may not call that "testing" or "tfp," we may just say that we're "doing some projects with friends," but it's the same thing.  Stop doing "tfp" and your career dies out.

phcorcoran wrote:
If you are working regularly then you are getting work like the work you've already done.  If you want to still be in the business next year you have to be building a portfolio of kinds of work that you are not currently getting.  We may not call that "testing" or "tfp," we may just say that we're "doing some projects with friends," but it's the same thing.  Stop doing "tfp" and your career dies out.

Don't misunderstand me. I am all for TESTING it serves wondeful purposes. One such purpose is as long as the model is testing with pro shooters, they learn the business and what to expect on a real shoot which helps develop them.

But in response to what you are saying, I think maybe you missed my point. Imagine this. A model does a test and it's excellent the agencies love it, etc. etc. Now the same model gets a booking for a client like Lands End. Both images go into the models book the same week. A new test and a new tear. Which one carries more weight? The tear because the tear says she's working. Now with that in mind, if the model is working regularly, then it means she is getting regular tears therefore, she does not have to test. Also the clients know she's working because they know the working girls in a particular market. Clients build relationships with models and request them by name eventually. They know the girls and what agencies they are with, etc. etc. That's why it's a plus for photographers seeking commercial model work to test with agency girls so that when those same clients view their books, the photographer is given more respect and has a better chance of getting the job.

This reminds me of a time when I got to busy to test. Becuase at the time I shot alot of girls from Elite, the would tell me about the new girls, they would send comps, or the girls etc. to see if I wanted to test with them. When I got some free time, I called and requested a test with one in particular. The agent said to me, "Unless you have some cash you can't get her now. Fred! you snoozed on her, she's in NY now shooting an ad for Olay. She booked it for 14,000.00 and we've pulled her from the testing board. She will not be testing for awhile as she is working regularly now so you'll have to cast and book her for something. Anybody else you interested in?" This particular girl was in their new faces division with only 2 pictures on her comp. Now with a major client in her book, she'll attract more clients.

See my point? Again, I'm all for Tests, love em, they serve tons of purposes, but not every model needs to test all the time. Her future work will come because of the current work. It doesn't mean that if her only client is Gap, the only work she'll get is Gap type of work. This is why they have castings.

As for doing tests for the type of work you want to get, first off girls (agency girls) do not have the option of putting anything they want in their books. The agency usually controls that because they know how to market the girls for the future work. They even tell the girls what images to print from their tests.

Hope this explains what I was trying to say a little better.

YeagerVision wrote:
The MUA and Stylist have costs associated with their work, much as photographers have costs associated with ours.  They'd normally charge kit fees for the pads, brushes, make up, thread, tape, pins, whatever. 

Send everyone involved a 'contact sheet' of untouched shots, and then touch up a couple for each person, including myself and send everybody a copy of each of those images....at no charge.

I'm a socialist.  We're all equally involved and contributing our time and skills in our chosed field, so on TFP/CD I don't charge anyone anything, and give each participant (sp?) free, unlimited promotional use of any of the images.  If anyone sells an image, I require it to go through me, and we split any money equally.

that sounds fair