Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Men don't get much lol.

I don't get it

Since you are starting out, try TFP/CD with some experienced but new to the industry MuA's and stylists.

Seek them at hair salons, depart stores and cosmetic stores, and advertise on MM, Craigslist, OMP and other free model/photographer hosting sites.

If that don't work, offer your SO a crash course in make-up so he can save the $ for poker night

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Men don't get much lol. My bf used to complain when I started out that I was spending more than I made but he eventually got tired of wasting breath.

men CAN be a bit hard headed, can't we?

Crystal Collins wrote:
[snip]I love that they come with suitcases of products for me to choose from so I can get the exact look I want.

If you begin working with MU/hair artists on a TFP basis, they will do the same thing!  You need to seek out good people, but you also need to realize that - for some - time IS money.  Cash is not the only form of payment.  When someone gives of their time to a shoot on a testing/trade basis, they are there because they want *great* images.  Getting those images requires bringing all the same makeup you'd bring to a paid shoot.  I mean, a model shouldn't expect the photographer to show up without pieces of his photo equipment because he is "just testing" with her, should she :-)?

I've never had a makeup artist who worked TFP bring less than everything.  Talented people will take the work seriously enough to meet your standards.  It may take some time - but LOTS of great artists right here at MM are open to trades.  Why not give it a shot?  You might be surprised.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Men don't get much lol. My bf used to complain when I started out that I was spending more than I made but he eventually got tired of wasting breath.

Oh, that's harsh Claire. Some of us are at least trainable. Just need the right teacher.

Last MUA I paid was well worth the fee, and a pleasure to work with. Sometimes you have to pay to get what you want. Sometimes TFP works out.

Red Sky Photography wrote:

Oh, that's harsh Claire. Some of us are at least trainable. Just need the right teacher.

Last MUA I paid was well worth the fee, and a pleasure to work with. Sometimes you have to pay to get what you want. Sometimes TFP works out.

Ok sorry lol. I think what guys dont get about the MUA is this: My bf always says " you do your makeup fine why do you need an mua?"

Here's why men:
Because MUA's know how to do makeup for photos! Makeup for photos verses every day is totally different.

Crystal Collins wrote:
My husband just doesn't seem to grasp the concept of why I need to pay a MUA/hair stylist for their time and work, when I'm not getting paid for what I do. He's been texting me all morning asking who the checks were for and he doesn't get it.

Apparently I haven't gotten it in his head yet that hello! They're professionals. I'm a student photographer who is learning.. no where near that status so why should I get paid?

Someone make me feel better by saying that their S.O/friend/family/etc doesn't get it either

My SO does not understand, she is a nurse...very linier...straight forward!
I do get paid for my work...I am a comerical photographer...but sometimes it is great to shoot a model, and testing is a light and eazy, no pressure way to do that...She works with volinteers at the clinic, and understands the work for exchange thing [tfcd] but when I pay a stylist to come to a TFCD, she just goes nuts.. what is my ROI?? when will this pay off??.... she just does not get it!
Hang in there...It will get better

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
But then again you can tell him to shut up and be happy cause of all the beauties you shoot and he gets to look at the photographs anytime he wants.

Especially when you're asleep.

Thank you very much, i'm here all week.

Crystal Collins wrote:
My husband just doesn't seem to grasp the concept of why I need to pay a MUA/hair stylist for their time and work, when I'm not getting paid for what I do. He's been texting me all morning asking who the checks were for and he doesn't get it.

Sorry, I don't see this as a male issue, I see it as a student photographer issue.  Part of the student learning process is working under circumstances that are most beneficial.  Generally a photographer providing a MUA on his/her dime without return beyond nice pictures is not a good "barter" investment, particularly so at the student level.  Certainly there are craftsman that are willing to make that investment, but that goes well beyond portfolio building in motivation. 

In a barter situation where a student photographer is providing the necessary tools for creating the strongest possible imaging, why isn't the model providing the necessary tools on their part?  There lies the investment balance and learning structure for what is brought to the table by each and making the barter worthwhile.  Providing the MUA through barter has all the flavor of asking the model to stop by the camera store to pick up the proper lens for the shoot.

Males do have a funny way of looking at problems.  Generally (as has been written in countless books) males tend to be problem solvers.  When there is an imbalance that goes against logic a funny thing happens...the problem solving aspect begins.

Crystal Collins wrote:
My husband just doesn't seem to grasp the concept of why I need to pay a MUA/hair stylist for their time and work, when I'm not getting paid for what I do. He's been texting me all morning asking who the checks were for and he doesn't get it.

Apparently I haven't gotten it in his head yet that hello! They're professionals. I'm a student photographer who is learning.. no where near that status so why should I get paid?

Someone make me feel better by saying that their S.O/friend/family/etc doesn't get it either

Hello Crystal. I am in the same boat! (lol) My SO does not get the whole photography thing at all to the point things have ended and I am moving out and back to downtown St Pete on Saturday because of it.

She does not see the money I have spent on EQ and accessories (Approx $5500-$6k of my own money) or that I will sometimes have to pay a model to better my craft and my portfolio so that hopefully someday I can be a professional Photographer and get paid! She calls it my "Pipe dream" She also hates the time I spend reading, learning, etc as well as really hates the fact that I "Spend so much time looking at half naked and naked women on the internet" while learning more about other togs style, lighting, composition, etc.

Whats wrong with these people? (lol)

I feel your pain darlin!

Nic

MichaelNicoletti wrote:
Hello Crystal. I am in the same boat! (lol) My SO does not get the whole photography thing at all to the point things have ended and I am moving out and back to downtown St Pete on Saturday.

She does not see the money I have spent on EQ and accessories (Approx $5500-$6k of my own money) or that I will sometimes have to pay a model to better my craft and my portfolio so that hopefully someday I can be a professional Photographer and get paid! She calls it my "Pipe dream" She also hates the time I spend reading, learning, etc as well as really hates the fact that I "Spend so much time looking at half naked and naked women on the internet" while learning more about other togs style, lighting, composition, etc.

Whats wrong with these people? (lol)

I feel your pain darlin!

Nic

One thing peep do not understand is that the time you choose to spend with others just might not include them, but does not mean that they are excluded or manipulated.