Posted by Jack D Trute: 
Good art,  good images,  and good business can often be separate things.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Posted by Catalina Mercury: 
I know quite a few "camgirls" who have pay sites. Nothing but self-taken digital and webcam pics, added by the ton each week. They made TONS of cash. I haven't seen any of them pop up here yet though.

Why would they come here if they are rich like you say? Lol yikes!

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

Yes it does, makes you an internet model.

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

It does get you paid though, and i'm pretty sure it was decided on this very forum that whether or not one gets paid for their work [regardless of quality or philosophy] is the sole measuring factor for being a "professional."  Don't tell me you're all changing your mind now...

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

Yet oddly, for some it does make MONEY...

Who cares about the title.. take the money and run...

Posted by Gary Davis: 
I think they actually shoot "snapshot style" on purpose because that's what sells on those sites.

I think you might be right.  It's becoming a style all it's own.

Posted by MichaelBell: 


I am not sure what to make of this. I would think they are under some sort of contract to that paysite. I am willing to bet they are joining here and setting up portfolios just to promote their paysites. Just wondering what you guys thought about the situation.

They are probably under a contract and probably here to promote their site. But if they actually make money off it than good for them.
If its not porn it does not make you a porn star.
And who cares weather it makes you a "model" or not. They do it to make money.

Posted by MichaelBell: 
I am willing to bet they are joining here and setting up portfolios just to promote their paysites. Just wondering what you guys thought about the situation.

What are you here to promote, apple pie?

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

It does get you paid though, and i'm pretty sure it was decided on this very forum that whether or not one gets paid for their work [regardless of quality or philosophy] is the sole measuring factor for being a "professional."  Don't tell me you're all changing your mind now...

Well, it makes you a professional SOMETHING...

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

It does get you paid though, and i'm pretty sure it was decided on this very forum that whether or not one gets paid for their work [regardless of quality or philosophy] is the sole measuring factor for being a "professional."  Don't tell me you're all changing your mind now...

Well, it makes you a professional SOMETHING...

As a professional model in every positive aspect Theda, how do you feel about the way the term "model" has been co-opted for everything from thinly veiled escort services to amateur paysites?

Posted by Todd Steinwart: 
As a professional model in every positive aspect Theda, how do you feel about the way the term "model" has been co-opted for everything from thinly veiled escort services to amateur paysites?

I'm a professional model in every positive aspect? News to me. Even if I were a professional model in every positive aspect, I'm not sure I'd care too much.

Posted by Todd Steinwart: 

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

It does get you paid though, and i'm pretty sure it was decided on this very forum that whether or not one gets paid for their work [regardless of quality or philosophy] is the sole measuring factor for being a "professional."  Don't tell me you're all changing your mind now...

Well, it makes you a professional SOMETHING...

As a professional model in every positive aspect Theda, how do you feel about the way the term "model" has been co-opted for everything from thinly veiled escort services to amateur paysites?

It's been happening since the 1500s.

model:
    1575, "architect's set of designs," from M.Fr. modelle (Fr. modèle), from It. modello "a model, mold," from V.L. *modellus, dim. of L. modulus "measure, standard," dim. of modus "manner, measure" (see mode (1)). Sense of "thing or person to be imitated" is 1639. Meaning "motor vehicle of a particular design" is from 1900 (e.g. Model T, 1909). Sense of "artist's model" is first recorded 1691; that of "fashion model" is from 1904. The verb is 1665 in the sense of "fashion in clay or wax;" 1915 in the sense "to act as a model, to display (clothes)." The adj. is 1844, from the noun.

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

It does get you paid though, and i'm pretty sure it was decided on this very forum that whether or not one gets paid for their work [regardless of quality or philosophy] is the sole measuring factor for being a "professional."  Don't tell me you're all changing your mind now...

Well, it makes you a professional SOMETHING...

I didn't set the standard, I'm just applying it where appropriate.  How many threads have we had where the consensus was that if a photographer got paid they were a pro and if they didn't they were  just another GWC loser working a day job...Dosen't the same standard apply to models?

*please note the rhetorical tone*

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
[I didn't set the standard, I'm just applying it where appropriate.  How many threads have we had where the consensus was that if a photographer got paid they were a pro and if they didn't they were  just another GWC loser working a day job...Dosen't the same standard apply to models?

*please note the rhetorical tone* 

Fooey on your rhetorical tone.

I'm not questioning your given definition of "professional." I'm questioning your given (or not so given) definition of "model."

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
I didn't set the standard, I'm just applying it where appropriate.  How many threads have we had where the consensus was that if a photographer got paid they were a pro and if they didn't they were  just another GWC loser working a day job...Dosen't the same standard apply to models?

*please note the rhetorical tone* 

Whoa! Either you're a professional photographer or a GWC? How fair is that to guys/gals who have an artistic vision and desire to pursue it photographically, but do it as a serious hobby or avocation?

My impression was that GWC is a disparaging label reserved for guys whose main intent was, in the guise of "photographer," to get chicks to take their tops off in front of the camera.

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
[I didn't set the standard, I'm just applying it where appropriate.  How many threads have we had where the consensus was that if a photographer got paid they were a pro and if they didn't they were  just another GWC loser working a day job...Dosen't the same standard apply to models?

*please note the rhetorical tone* 

Fooey on your rhetorical tone.

I'm not questioning your given definition of "professional." I'm questioning your given (or not so given) definition of "model."

Well...that was the point of my rhetoric...who decides what a model is?  Or what a photographer is?  Me?  You?  Tyler?  Richard Ashcroft?  Get me?

Posted by Todd Steinwart: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
I didn't set the standard, I'm just applying it where appropriate.  How many threads have we had where the consensus was that if a photographer got paid they were a pro and if they didn't they were  just another GWC loser working a day job...Dosen't the same standard apply to models?

*please note the rhetorical tone* 

Whoa! Either you're a professional photographer or a GWC? How fair is that to guys/gals who have an artistic vision and desire to pursue it photographically, but do it as a serious hobby or avocation?

My impression was that GWC is a disparaging label reserved for guys whose main intent was, in the guise of "photographer," to get chicks to take their tops off in front of the camera. 

As I said, this isn't my definition...it was fostered by a handfull of members who [claim to] make big piles of money being [professional] photographers and feel that they are the gold standard to which all should be judged...Apparently we've finally found a matching standard for models too.

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 
[I didn't set the standard, I'm just applying it where appropriate.  How many threads have we had where the consensus was that if a photographer got paid they were a pro and if they didn't they were  just another GWC loser working a day job...Dosen't the same standard apply to models?

*please note the rhetorical tone* 

Fooey on your rhetorical tone.

I'm not questioning your given definition of "professional." I'm questioning your given (or not so given) definition of "model."

Well...that was the point of my rhetoric...who decides what a model is?  Or what a photographer is?  Me?  You?  Tyler?  Richard Ashcroft?  Get me?

Model is in the dictionary, and I posted the etymology in this thread.

Posted by Steven Abel: 
What does it matter what you label them?  They are in the strictest interpretation of definition, both models and professional.   I think what you are really questioning is the artistic merit of what they do.

It is so fun to look down on people though isn't it?

*ding, ding, ding, ding!*

I think we have a winner!  I've been waiting for someone to get my point since 9 this morning!

Posted by theda: 

Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: 

Posted by Aimercat: 
I don't care if this offends anyone, but taking a few webcam shots & starting a pay site does NOT make you a model.

It does get you paid though, and i'm pretty sure it was decided on this very forum that whether or not one gets paid for their work [regardless of quality or philosophy] is the sole measuring factor for being a "professional."  Don't tell me you're all changing your mind now...

Well, it makes you a professional SOMETHING...

and that something ISN'T a model

Posted by Steven Abel: 
What does it matter what you label them?  They are in the strictest interpretation of definition, both models and professional.   I think what you are really questioning is the artistic merit of what they do.

It is so fun to look down on people though isn't it?

I'm just saying there is a proper place for the Webcam Wonders and well, this shouldn't be the place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just like simply having a camera doesn't make you a photographer, it simply makes you a Guy With a Camera.

Posted by Aimercat: 


I'm just saying there is a proper place for the Webcam Wonders and well, this shouldn't be the place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just like simply having a camera doesn't make you a photographer, it simply makes you a Guy With a Camera.

Wow,  Aimercat leaves the shoutbox land and make a post.  Allright.

Posted by Jack D Trute: 

Posted by Aimercat: 


I'm just saying there is a proper place for the Webcam Wonders and well, this shouldn't be the place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just like simply having a camera doesn't make you a photographer, it simply makes you a Guy With a Camera.

Wow,  Aimercat leaves the shoutbox land and make a post.  Allright.

Will she ever change her avatar?

Posted by Aimercat: 

I'm just saying there is a proper place for the Webcam Wonders and well, this shouldn't be the place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just like simply having a camera doesn't make you a photographer, it simply makes you a Guy With a Camera.

So should we have quality police?  How do you determine who isn't allowed?  What if someone is just starting modeling and all they have are webcam pics and they are looking for a photographer that will help them start their portfolio?  What criteria to use?  They are not allowed if they get paid to take their clothes off?  Hmm, that wouldn't work here.  I guess you should say they shouldn't be paid to take their clothes off in front of anything less than mid-range dslr.

I'm sorry, it just smacks of morality police. There are very few people here who don't have photographs that someone, somewhere wouldnt' find offensive.

That said, I'm not fond of those sites either.  I seriously don't even understand who they heck pays to see naked girls onthe internet when you can do it for free with GIS.  Nor do I understand why if you are going to look at naked girls, why you would look at these girls instead of say Karen Elson.

I still don't see how you can keep them off of the site though.  The best you are going to get is this thread here where people can come together and say that those amateurs don't belong here.

Sorry I started off harsh. I've just been an ornery cantakerous coot lately.

I will however join in on the lynching of announcement flooding and scam spamming.

Posted by Steven Abel: 
I still don't see how you can keep them off of the site though.  The best you are going to get is this thread here where people can come together and say that those amateurs don't belong here.

I will however join in on the lynching of announcement flooding and scam spamming.

I didn't start this thread to bash amatuers by any means, hell, I am still an amatuer myself. I started this thread to give some photogs a heads up that there are models with amatuer paysites opening accounts here just to promote themselves. I have already seen photogs sending them tags saying they want to work with them and the like, I bet these girls dont ever come back, I have already seen it with a few. They set up a portfolio with pics from their free tour section and put links to their site in their "about me" and in their homepage section. So if you come across one, dont expect them to be replying to your messages, this is obviously a spam account and hopefully the powers that be can clean them up.

Posted by XtremeArtists: 

Posted by Jack D Trute: 

Posted by Aimercat: 


I'm just saying there is a proper place for the Webcam Wonders and well, this shouldn't be the place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just like simply having a camera doesn't make you a photographer, it simply makes you a Guy With a Camera.

Wow,  Aimercat leaves the shoutbox land and make a post.  Allright.

Will she ever change her avatar?

probably not until i shoot new headshots. I believe in going with a clear commercial headshot for my avatar.

Posted by Aimercat: 

Posted by XtremeArtists: 

Posted by Jack D Trute: 

Posted by Aimercat: 


I'm just saying there is a proper place for the Webcam Wonders and well, this shouldn't be the place. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Just like simply having a camera doesn't make you a photographer, it simply makes you a Guy With a Camera.

Wow,  Aimercat leaves the shoutbox land and make a post.  Allright.

Will she ever change her avatar?

probably not until i shoot new headshots. I believe in going with a clear commercial headshot for my avatar.

That seems wise to me, but if I were a hot chick, I mean working model, I would consider this one as well:

Posted by MichaelBell: 
I didn't start this thread to bash amatuers by any means, hell, I am still an amatuer myself. I started this thread to give some photogs a heads up that there are models with amatuer paysites opening accounts here just to promote themselves. I have already seen photogs sending them tags saying they want to work with them and the like, I bet these girls dont ever come back, I have already seen it with a few. They set up a portfolio with pics from their free tour section and put links to their site in their "about me" and in their homepage section. So if you come across one, dont expect them to be replying to your messages, this is obviously a spam account and hopefully the powers that be can clean them up.

Well, spam is something else I can get behind.  I admit I am annoyed by link whores, always begging for link exchanges, always posting their banners in blogs and on sites all over the internet trying to get a little extra traffic.  Drives me crazy, and I delete/block/ignore/ban all I can.

Who wouldn't want to drive visitors to their site, paid or not?  If they are inactive then most likely people won't notice them and hopefully they will get removed by the system due to inactivity.  Yeah, I hate to see people waste their time though trying to contact them.  Who is to say that they won't make a connection after all.

There are lot of people who set up portfolios on sites like these for purely social reasons or to pretend they are a model even though they have no interest in ever shooting with anyone.