Wardrobe Stylist
Meg Ashley
Posts: 18
Los Angeles, California, US
So here is a message that I received:
"I knnow you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. I want the shoot to have a sort of luxurious theme/stern attitude... ie Hugo Boss style kinda... I was thinking, but I don't know how easy that would be to imitate. Anyway, so if you have any suggestions on themes (looking at my body type) or if you know anyway I could get clothes for the shoot, let me know."
How does everyone feel about this?
I kinda feel like the person is really asking for a "styling session" for free, even though they said that they know I don't work for free. Isn't that a big part of styling? Working with the talent with clothes that look good on their body and knowing what stores to find these clothes at.
Let me know what you think.
Photographer
Nick Ryder
Posts: 317
Walnut Creek, California, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
So here is a message that I received:
"I knnow you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. I want the shoot to have a sort of luxurious theme/stern attitude... ie Hugo Boss style kinda... I was thinking, but I don't know how easy that would be to imitate. Anyway, so if you have any suggestions on themes (looking at my body type) or if you know anyway I could get clothes for the shoot, let me know."
How does everyone feel about this?
I kinda feel like the person is really asking for a "styling session" for free, even though they said that they know I don't work for free. Isn't that a big part of styling? Working with the talent with clothes that look good on their body and knowing what stores to find these clothes at.
Let me know what you think.
Photographer
Samantha_Gatt
Posts: 812
Brooklyn, New York, US
I understand that if you say you don't work for free, but I'm not sure that them asking a few questions is equal to what you would do if they hired you. (I know the person is asking for specific things that would suit their body type, and I think that is a bit much for you to look at their portfolio, evaluate their body and then tell them what would look good on them.) (If I were in your shoes) I would probably give them a brief reply telling them to "Check out this magazine, and the best way to know what type of clothes look good on you is to try out a bunch of different types at the store." Or something like that! That's totally fine if you are too busy to answer them, or for some other reason don't want to answer them, just don't be rude to a beginner who is looking for some help/advice 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34382
New York, New York, US
_Negatives wrote:
That's totally fine if you are too busy to answer them, or for some other reason don't want to answer them, just don't be rude to a beginner who is looking for some help/advice Yes, if you are offended then just do not answer.
But the person should not be offended if you do not answer or say no, thankyou/I need to be paid for what I do.
I am not offended by people asking but I do not have the time to do so either usually.
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
From the note, I don't get the impression that they're hitting you up for free styling but are genuinely looking for tips. Like maybe you know of a clothing re-seller that does high end labels or whatever. You don't need to give up any of your contacts; you could suggest the typical scouring of estate sales, etc. Seems sincere.
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
The time to shoot off a quick email reply is insignificant compared to the potential benefit to your reputation. This person obviously respects you and your opinion. Give them some good, if quick, advice, and you'll likely have someone who speaks well of you, at worst, and hires you some day, at best.
Be generious and professional: No downside.
Photographer
SolraK Studios
Posts: 1213
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
So here is a message that I received:
"I knnow you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. I want the shoot to have a sort of luxurious theme/stern attitude... ie Hugo Boss style kinda... I was thinking, but I don't know how easy that would be to imitate. Anyway, so if you have any suggestions on themes (looking at my body type) or if you know anyway I could get clothes for the shoot, let me know."
How does everyone feel about this?
I kinda feel like the person is really asking for a "styling session" for free, even though they said that they know I don't work for free. Isn't that a big part of styling? Working with the talent with clothes that look good on their body and knowing what stores to find these clothes at.
Let me know what you think. would it kill you to give some advice ??
Photographer
YeagerVision
Posts: 175
Los Angeles, California, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
The time to shoot off a quick email reply is insignificant compared to the potential benefit to your reputation. This person obviously respects you and your opinion. Give them some good, if quick, advice, and you'll likely have someone who speaks well of you, at worst, and hires you some day, at best.
Be generious and professional: No downside. Good advice. You can look at this site in two ways: either as an advertising site or as a community. Since probably 90% or better of the participants here are either amateurs (not that there's anything wrong with that) or wannabes, I think of this more of a community to share ideas. If you're established in your field, this is the place to "give back" in honor of those people who helped you along the way.
Model
Stacy
Posts: 2505
Englewood, Florida, US
I agree, you dont need to tell her exactly what to buy (that would be working for free). But I'm sure she will greatly appreciate you and speak of you kindly, if you were to give her some small advice. It sounds like all she's asking for is a helping hand.
Photographer
ChristerArt
Posts: 2861
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
Chris Ambler wrote:
The time to shoot off a quick email reply is insignificant compared to the potential benefit to your reputation. This person obviously respects you and your opinion. Give them some good, if quick, advice, and you'll likely have someone who speaks well of you, at worst, and hires you some day, at best.
Be generious and professional: No downside. I agree - I always try to answer questions I feel are asked seriously and the subject is "professional" knowledge.
Kind of giving back what has been given to me...
Photographer
bubbaclicks
Posts: 2271
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Chris Ambler wrote:
The time to shoot off a quick email reply is insignificant compared to the potential benefit to your reputation. This person obviously respects you and your opinion. Give them some good, if quick, advice, and you'll likely have someone who speaks well of you, at worst, and hires you some day, at best.
Be generious and professional: No downside. Chris, what a great answer,... boy...many could learn from this lesson here... it takes two sconds to respond to any message sent. take the time and be courteous, you would want the same back in return
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
My father is an investment broker. People call him for advice which he's happy to provide for free. Because the person who wants to know a few details about short-selling isn't going to put him out of a job with that knowledge. Simply having the knowledge doesn't mean that it will be employed properly either.
Someone asking you for a couple of styling tips isn't the same as you styling his or her shoot. It's just a bit of knowledge that they could employ to look better in photos. It's not taking money out of your pocket or food off of your table.
You did not learn everything on your own and you did not pay for all the knowledge you have. Somewhere, at some point, somebody answered a question for you out of the kindness of his or her heart. Not because you deserved it, but because you wanted to know and he or she didn't mind sharing.
That said, if you don't feel like giving the advice, then don't give out the advice. And if it's that important that you be compensated for sharing your knowledge, then charge a consulting fee. $5 a minute or somesuch.
But equating that to styling their shoot is a bit of a leap...
Photographer
Vector 38
Posts: 8296
Austin, Texas, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
"I knnow [sic] you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. if the person making the request is truly desperate, and serious, about the need for advice, then some compensation might be thought as appropriate. granted, nothing in the quote actually tells us the person asking is a beginner, amateur, or what ... but [that's] kind of outside the issue.
reality check: try to find a physician or a lawyer who will provide detailed consultation for free. find a mechanic who'll repair your car for free ... because you're desperate.
yes, many here on the Forum are perhaps amateurs but that doesn't negate the legitimacy of those here who are working professionals, people who've "paid their dues" to learn their craft/art and who now bill for their time & their work.
same, occasionally get the note from a model who knows i don't accept exchanges (i.e., TFPs/TFCDs) who will ask me 'pls shoot me for free' anyway and provide hair, makeup, and wardrobe too ...
what can one say? life. all kinds. we move on.
fml
Photographer
SolraK Studios
Posts: 1213
Atlanta, Georgia, US
FML-Photography wrote:
if the person making the request is truly desperate, and serious, about the need for advice, then some compensation might be thought as appropriate. granted, nothing in the quote actually tells us the person asking is a beginner, amateur, or what ... but [that's] kind of outside the issue.
reality check: try to find a physician or a lawyer who will provide detailed consultation for free. find a mechanic who'll repair your car for free ... because you're desperate.
yes, many here on the Forum are perhaps amateurs but that doesn't negate the legitimacy of those here who are working professionals, people who've "paid their dues" to learn their craft/art and who now bill for their time & their work.
same, occasionally get the note from a model who knows i don't accept exchanges (i.e., TFPs/TFCDs) who will ask me 'pls shoot me for free' anyway and provide hair, makeup, and wardrobe too ...
what can one say? life. all kinds. we move on.
fml I sorry I forgot we live in a capitalist society where $$$ is god ! OK the girl wasn't asking for a tailoring lesson ( I doubt the OP can actually make or even tailor clothes) simply how to go about styling a shoot !!! would it kill her to answer that...... no.
Photographer
Paul Callaby UK
Posts: 231
Norwich, England, United Kingdom
SOMETIMES A LITTLE HELP GOES A LONG WAY.
Photographer
Sarah Boling
Posts: 89
Guthrie, Kentucky, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
So here is a message that I received:
"I knnow you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. I want the shoot to have a sort of luxurious theme/stern attitude... ie Hugo Boss style kinda... I was thinking, but I don't know how easy that would be to imitate. Anyway, so if you have any suggestions on themes (looking at my body type) or if you know anyway I could get clothes for the shoot, let me know."
How does everyone feel about this?
I kinda feel like the person is really asking for a "styling session" for free, even though they said that they know I don't work for free. Isn't that a big part of styling? Working with the talent with clothes that look good on their body and knowing what stores to find these clothes at.
Let me know what you think. And if everyone knew where to borrow clothes, and knew what looked good on them, etc... the world wouldn't need stylists. I would give them a bit of advice (you know, basic generic stuff) and then offer to work with them when they are serious enough to pay.
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
I've given advice and I've asked for advice. What goes around comes around -- giving a few hints wouldn't hurt you and would certainly set up some nice Karma action. Also, does the person who is asking you for advice live near you? If not, then he wouldn't be hiring you anyway. I also like the advice some people gave you as well; if you can direct him to another source of information that may be a good idea as well. That way, he can do the research and you don't have to type quite as much.
-P-
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
So here is a message that I received:
Let me know what you think. Money isn't everything
Photographer
500 Gigs of Desire
Posts: 3833
New York, New York, US
If someone were to ask me how I styled a recent men's fashion story, and I said, "Get the model from Next, get the suit from Gucci, the tie from Hermes, the shoes from Prada, and the briefcase from Montblanc, and shoot the model in natural light in an abandoned trainyard...."
I just spent 3 minutes helping someone out, yet "gave away nothing"
But it's a fine line, and only we know when to stop giving away our services.
Styling is taste, not everyone has it, and its not something you can't buy or learn from an e-mail or Model Mayhem.
No matter how hard I try, I will never be able to create a Jackson Pollack, even though I saw the movie.
Makeup Artist
Rayrayrose
Posts: 3510
Los Angeles, California, US
Meg,
If he/she trucked down to nordstrom or the goodwill, hell even target, whatever and brought magazines with them, they could easily try things on and try to recreate the look. It is just common sense.
Here is my issue with giving advice: if it is for everyday life, no problem, so you want to know what concealer I recommend for covering up undereye circles, thats cool. When I get an email asking for specific step by step instructions on how to do makeup for photography, I will not give that information. It is just a matter of respect.
I understand that this person respects you and is probably desperate for advice, but there isn't any advice you can give them that they couldn't figure out on their own with a good 5-10 minutes of brainstorming.
I don't think you need to give them anything, because since you are not there with the model to give an actual consultation, you cannot accurately recommend things, plus since the model is not a stylist, any recommendations to pull clothes are useless because they wouldn't be able to. Not to mention that the model made no point in saying that they made any effort in putting this look together: i.e., "i tried an express polo and slim fit jeans and something just wasn't right".
Photographer
Papa-Rotzzi Photography
Posts: 154
Ladson, South Carolina, US
The irony here is amazing... the OP had somebody contact her for free advice.. and that got her panties in a bunch... so she came here.. for free advice.. on how to deal with it..
I feel a disturbance in the cosmos.
Photographer
Cyberhawk Studios
Posts: 387
Mount Vernon, Washington, US
All I can say is: Pay It Forward! Good karma is worth more than money any day! But hey, that's just me.
Model
NAT
Posts: 312
Huntington, Virginia, US
photopauluk wrote:
SOMETIMES A LITTLE HELP GOES A LONG WAY. Agrees
Photographer
Kentsoul
Posts: 9739
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
rachelrose wrote:
Meg,
If he/she trucked down to nordstrom or the goodwill, hell even target, whatever and brought magazines with them, they could easily try things on and try to recreate the look. It is just common sense.
Here is my issue with giving advice: if it is for everyday life, no problem, so you want to know what concealer I recommend for covering up undereye circles, thats cool. When I get an email asking for specific step by step instructions on how to do makeup for photography, I will not give that information. It is just a matter of respect.
I understand that this person respects you and is probably desperate for advice, but there isn't any advice you can give them that they couldn't figure out on their own with a good 5-10 minutes of brainstorming.
I don't think you need to give them anything, because since you are not there with the model to give an actual consultation, you cannot accurately recommend things, plus since the model is not a stylist, any recommendations to pull clothes are useless because they wouldn't be able to. Not to mention that the model made no point in saying that they made any effort in putting this look together: i.e., "i tried an express polo and slim fit jeans and something just wasn't right". I personally get off on helping others in my field...especially those just starting out. I remember when I was new [and sucked]...if it weren't for the advice and encouragement of a few key people on the inside, I would still be looking in through the one-way glass.
Photographer
FabioTovar
Posts: 583
Culver City, California, US
papa-rotzzi wrote:
The irony here is amazing... the OP had somebody contact her for free advice.. and that got her panties in a bunch... so she came here.. for free advice.. on how to deal with it..
I feel a disturbance in the cosmos. Some of you may or may not have seem my Comment Thread.
https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=36533
It started out with me commenting on peoples ports who asked for comments on the announcements. You asked for it! type deal... and I would give then honest crits.
It turned into people hopping in and directly asking for advice.
Since then I have being doing so FREE. Its just my opinion. I dont get paid for it and sometimes actually takes a little while because I dont always know what to say.
Its not much but its free advice that people need.
If you truly feel like helping someone just give them the advice. its like papa-rotzi says... you are here asking for our advice. reference then to some magazines and clothing lines.. spend 10 min on an email and feel good about helping someone...
it really does go a long way..... Just check out my comments on my port. people really do appreciate it when you help them and want NOTHING in return.
Photographer
studio L
Posts: 1775
Oakland, California, US
Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
I personally get off on helping others in my field...especially those just starting out. I remember when I was new [and sucked]...if it weren't for the advice and encouragement of a few key people on the inside, I would still be looking in through the one-way glass. here here sir.
thank you-I agree 101%.
sharing is nice.
it makes the world a better place.
and that's important.
Photographer
Richard Cleveland
Posts: 62
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I agree with Chris as well. However one general question eventually leads to 6 specific ones. Then you are caught in a consultation and have a fee for it.
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
Meg, the following are all great responses... KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
would it kill you to give some advice ?? Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
I personally get off on helping others in my field...especially those just starting out. I remember when I was new [and sucked]...if it weren't for the advice and encouragement of a few key people on the inside, I would still be looking in through the one-way glass. Chris Ambler wrote:
Be generious and professional: No downside. ChristerArt wrote:
I agree - I always try to answer questions I feel are asked seriously and the subject is "professional" knowledge.
Kind of giving back what has been given to me... bubbaclicks wrote:
it takes two sconds to respond to any message sent. take the time and be courteous, you would want the same back in return Cyberhawk Studios wrote:
All I can say is: Pay It Forward! Good karma is worth more than money any day! But hey, that's just me. But if you walk away from this reading nothing else at all, it should probably be this statement:
papa-rotzzi wrote:
The irony here is amazing... the OP had somebody contact her for free advice.. and that got her panties in a bunch... so she came here.. for free advice.. on how to deal with it..
I feel a disturbance in the cosmos.
Photographer
Scott Meyer
Posts: 87
Cincinnati, Iowa, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
So here is a message that I received:
"I know you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. I want the shoot to have a sort of luxurious theme/stern attitude... ie Hugo Boss style kinda... I was thinking, but I don't know how easy that would be to imitate. Anyway, so if you have any suggestions on themes (looking at my body type) or if you know anyway I could get clothes for the shoot, let me know."
How does everyone feel about this?
I kinda feel like the person is really asking for a "styling session" for free, even though they said that they know I don't work for free. Isn't that a big part of styling? Working with the talent with clothes that look good on their body and knowing what stores to find these clothes at.
Let me know what you think. Not saying you shouldn't give her some advice but I would ask if she is going to make any money off this shoot.
I once had a band contact me to do some photos for there CD cover.
They asked me if i could come up with any good Ideas for a shoot, so I came up with a few good ones and discussed it with them, the band really like them so we planed a shoot date. I never heard back from them after that meeting.
I later learned that they went ahead and hired a different photographer and used my ideas. I know I should have had them sign a contract before I discussed my ideas with them but was still kind of pissed. (live and learn)
(No im not asking for legal advice so dont give it. They were a small local band with no money.)
I told them what I thought of there working methods, (cant post here might offend a few people) but they didn't really seem to think they did anything wrong.
Just a work of warning before you give out free advice, make sure you know what its going to be used for and if anyone is making any money off your free advice.
Photographer
Gold Rush Studio
Posts: 384
Sacramento, California, US
Meg Ashley wrote:
So here is a message that I received:
"I knnow you don't work for free but I am in desperate need of advice if nothing else. I want the shoot to have a sort of luxurious theme/stern attitude... ie Hugo Boss style kinda... I was thinking, but I don't know how easy that would be to imitate. Anyway, so if you have any suggestions on themes (looking at my body type) or if you know anyway I could get clothes for the shoot, let me know."
How does everyone feel about this?
I kinda feel like the person is really asking for a "styling session" for free, even though they said that they know I don't work for free. Isn't that a big part of styling? Working with the talent with clothes that look good on their body and knowing what stores to find these clothes at.
Let me know what you think. I get a number of emails asking for advice and some from my direct competition.
And you know what I do? I answer their questions and help as I can.
Because that's what being part of a community like MM means and it also helps me establish ties with other people who may one day be in a place to return my favor.
It never hurts to have people think well of you.
Model
A BRITT PRO-AM
Posts: 7840
CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US
I ALwAYS willint to GIVE some ADVICE regradless of if its FOR FREE
maybe I can also HOPE to GET it WHEN I NEED IT too
;-)
WAIT!! HOW much DID I PAY THOSE LAWYERS again..Hmmm
Photographer
Papa-Rotzzi Photography
Posts: 154
Ladson, South Carolina, US
Jay Bowman wrote:
Meg, the following are all great responses, But if you walk away from this reading nothing else at all, it should probably be this statement:
papa-rotzzi wrote:
The irony here is amazing... the OP had somebody contact her for free advice.. and that got her panties in a bunch... so she came here.. for free advice.. on how to deal with it..
I feel a disturbance in the cosmos. Thanks for getting it, Jay!
|
