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when models change their mind on nudes or implieds
Since I do bodypainting as well, I have worked with several photographers and models. I recently ran into a scenario where a model wanted to pose. The project was nude and she was sent images of what the project was like. Digital nude photos that are edited to look like various elements, earth, wind, fire, ice. Well 1.) she just read past the nude part 2.) when she Finally realized the project did not involve bodypainting she changed her mind at the shoot. when if she had paid attention to the correspondence, she would have known. I don't mind a model changing their mind. She was also a replacement model for a friend who was going to model and got sick. So it was last minute the day before. She did not change her mind until she got to the place to shoot several minutes after arriving, I could tell she was fine at first and then she started acting weird. Now take into consideration that the day/night before about 4 or 5 emails and a few phone calls (day of) going over details and times and such as well as sending about 8 different pictures to give her examples of the end product. Are people blind to details in emails about projects? and even with visual aid of photographs...? But the reason I bring this up, is that I told her not to worry about it, because by that point I was pretty ticked off, but did not want the model to be uncomfortable either. so i told her she could go ahead and go and maybe we could shoot some other time. going to start putting in bold blinky letters **NUDE SHOOT** when those kind of projects come in the future. Well, anyways, I know a lot of photographers that try to convince the model to try it out and see if they are comfy or not. But I was talking to a friend the other day and we came to the conclusion that at the hint of the model showing uncomfortability or flakiness, just to tell them to go on and not worry about it. This can save time and more aggravation to both parties. I think it is best unless you have really talked to the person and know them, but even then, to be careful how you word yourself. I see photographers trying to pressure these girls at Mardi Gras and everything else to the point it gives a bad name to everyone else. Has anyone else dealt with this and what are other opinions? May 04 06 05:38 am Link Just move on and for shoots like that have a spare model available. What I think is funny are the models I am going to be shooting with who will not do nude modeling, but they have NO problem whatsoever doing a body paint shoot which requires complete nudity for the painting. May 04 06 05:47 am Link Glamour Boulevard wrote: Yeah, i have not run into any problems with the bodypainting. There are all different aspects of bodypainting from full nude painting, to mixing it with fashion and design. It is basically just full body makeup if you look at it that way. May 04 06 05:49 am Link Bryan Crump wrote: Thats what I tell them. You may be nude but it is almost like wearing a body suit. May 04 06 06:00 am Link I can't recall the last time a model got "iffy" right at the shoot -- but I think the difference between what you do and what I do is that your art probably looks "okay" [or really cool actually] to a more mainstream model than mine does...Until she actually takes a moment to think about what's being asked of her. I'd like to think that somebody is sure about whether or not they'd like to do fetish/bondage long before I even get to them...That's why I rarely work with first time models: It's a lot easier when everyone in the room knows what's what. Definitely a good call to let the model leave though. I wouldn't even put forth the possibility of working with her in the future though -- it will probably make her more uncomfortable. May 04 06 06:32 am Link Sure, I've outlined a list of things before to make sure the model's comfortable, including such things as, "jeans and a bare back looking down a lonely road, facing away from the camera," followed up at the end of the list by, "Let me know if you're uncomfortable at all with ANY of the concepts I've listed so I can make different plans." Then we get to the shoot, and we get to that one, and she says she's not comfortable with her shirt off. So I shrug and move on to the next thing on the list. Sure, I did my best to communicate, and she either didn't pay attention, or she didn't want to say anything, or she changed her mind. Well, life still goes on, even though I'm not doing that all-important shot. There will be another day with another model. May 04 06 07:53 am Link Glamour Boulevard wrote: It's all a matter of what gets shown in the final product, not the fact of being nude for body painting. Getting naked so that you can get covered and not be showing all your bits is not the same as getting naked and then getting your picture taken that way. May 04 06 07:54 am Link Unfortunately I think that a lot of models feel more confident saying they will do something than actually doing it. I recently did a fashion show which involved modeling handbags. The designer wanted to do something a little crazy so all we wore was a thong and then we were wrapped in little saran wrap tube dresses. We had been told weeks ahead of time that this was the outfit but the night of the show I was the only one who wasn't complaining. We were wrapped in so many layers that you could not really see much and I thought it looked cool. The other models who had volunteered to do this weeks ago started panicking after I was wrapped up because they felt it was the same as going naked. One girl actually had a panic attack and started drinking like crazy until she was almost too wasted to walk the runway. I think that if models set their boundaries and stuck to them this would happen less. Models should be sure to read and understand all expectations beforehand and if there is even the slightest bit of uneasiness, turn the job down and let someone else handle it who is more comfortable. May 04 06 07:58 am Link Im not sure I get this. I go to a studio. I strip off and I stand there for ages while someone puts body paint on me. The bodypainter is going to touch me everywhere and there are people coming in and looking and talking. The only thing that bugs me is having my photo taken? Nah. May 04 06 08:01 am Link Melissa Lynnette wrote: Exactlymundo May 04 06 08:02 am Link Tom Sullivan wrote: Excellent point! May 04 06 08:02 am Link Tom Sullivan wrote: What I mean is, plenty of models aren't comfortable having fully nude pictures of themselves out there. For whatever reason. Especially in this day of digital when you can't just destroy negatives, you can never get rid of that image. But if you are comfortable with a body painter, someone you trust and can talk to and whatnot and then you make sure no one's sneakin pics of you during the process then that's no big deal. Like (and this is gonna get me heat) when Rebecca Romijn did Mystique for X Men, she was body painted, completely naked underneath. That doesn't mean she would have preferred to do the whole movie without the paint cuz the only thing that bugged her was havin her photo taken. May 04 06 08:07 am Link Tom Sullivan wrote: Well if the shoot is done properly for bodypainting and it is in s studio the only people that shoudl be there are the model, her escort, the photographer, makeup artist and hairstylist. No one else should be there unless it is discussed ahead of time. May 04 06 08:08 am Link Tom Sullivan wrote: Well if the shoot is done properly for bodypainting and it is in s studio the only people that shoudl be there are the model, her escort, the photographer, makeup artist and hairstylist. No one else should be there unless it is discussed ahead of time. May 04 06 08:08 am Link I would get naked to shoot with you Bryan. No complaints or mind changing here. May 04 06 08:10 am Link Claire Elizabeth wrote: Awe thanks Claire, appreciate it. I will definately keep you in mind for future projects, but you are kind of a bit away. Actually, I am not sure where Delaware is, one of the few states I have not been too. May 04 06 08:16 am Link Two things would worry me. 1. Will it really come off like they say? 2. Will it smudge if I go for a pee? But I dont have a problem with being naked and I have a job understanding people who do. May 04 06 08:21 am Link Tom Sullivan wrote: understandable, my replies to those questions may seem funny but here they are. It will come off at some point, but don't scratch it, it shoudl last the shoot or event, warm shower washes it off. May 04 06 09:04 am Link Speaking of photographers who try to coerce models. This was when I was back in school for photography. One of the other students had asked if I could assist him on a shoot for an assignment. He was going to do some figure studies and wasn't overly confident with studio lighting. The model shows up and I can instantly tell she's nervous as hell, and looks completely uncomfortable. I tell him that she's uncomfortable and he should probably talk to her and maybe cancel/reschedule the shoot. He dismissed me, saying it's just jitters. When it comes time for her to disrobe she turns a pretty shade of green and says she's thought about it and doesn't feel she can do it anymore. And then comes the silver tongue of this guy as he tries everything to get her to take her cloths off. I was sickened by him. It was so completely sleazy! I interrupted eventually and told her it was fine that we had backups and to not worry about it, much to his chagrin. That experience actually convinced me I never wanted to shoot nudes and I spent 8 years refusing, even for pay, to shoot anything with nudity. I was so horrified that day. Only until recently, a fellow photographer and artist here in vegas (Shannon Dorn) asked if I would help her shoot an implied nude, and then a body painted nude calander that I relaxed a bit about it. Nudity in photography is still a sensitive subject for me. I personally think there is probably too much of it out there. No, what I mean to say is, there is too much BAD "artistic" nudes out there. When someone pulls it off, it's breathtaking, but it's oh so easy to screw it up. Anyway, that's my story... -G May 04 06 09:25 am Link I had one model send me a bunch of photos she would like to try to do. About 1/2 of them were nudes. We discussed and she said as long as she felt she could trust me, she did want to do the nudes. The day of the shoot, we did several clothed sequences. She started acting nervous when we did a shot with a duster over a bra and jeans. I thought I was being professional and couldn't figure what I was doing wrong, but I just let it go. She then started showing the nude shots she wanted to do. I said the shots are nudes, is that what you're wanting to do? She said she wanted to do the poses, but clothed. We came up with some clothing ideas and some of the shots are pretty good. At the end of the session, I still couldn't figure out if I did something wrong. When she got the shots, she raved and has said many times she would like to shoot again. Maybe it was her new boyfriend as escort, even though he never interfered...I don't know. I have another model I have shot with a few times. She has done a couple implied nudes, but I've never broached the subject of a nude. I can tell she is not comfortable. However the idea must intrigue her. The last couple shoots she has asked me to let her try a couple things and she will do a topless back shot or something, but quickly gets shy. If she decides to more, it will be up to her, but she would be great if she did.. May 04 06 09:37 am Link groupw wrote: I know that some escorts can make models nervous, so sometimes I ask the models about the escort they are bringing, especially if they are new to modeling. I bodypainted two models once and both brought their boyfriends, while one model was being painted she asked that the others bf leave and he did, but when the other girl was being painted her bf stayed and made rude comment and oggled the girl and would not leave. So sometimes it is important to know about the escort as well as the model. May 04 06 02:46 pm Link Claire Elizabeth wrote: Although I understand how some models may be nervous about doing nudes or May 04 06 02:58 pm Link This falls into the category of idle chatter, but.... I wanted a stark-contrast b&w series of a bare back. I got in touch with a model who didn't do nude but was fine with bare back. We shot, no pressure, and I wasn't happy wth the results. We tried it again. I had some better results, but overall, I wasn't happy with those results, either. It wasn't her. It was me. I gave up. I got a message from her a couple months later that she wanted some topless shots for a gig, and her contact had suggested to shoot with a photographer that she trusted to get used to the idea. So would I please help her with some topless shots? So we shot, we had some results we were both happy with, and she made a laughing comment that now she could help me with more of my art stuff. We have working arrangement for a shoot when we can both get together on it, and we're not too worried about boundaries. We have an understanding. As for not understanding why someone won't (or will) do nude, I suggest not trying to understand it. I don't like brussel sprouts much, but other people do. I don't try to understand it - it's just the way they are. Some people are uninhibited, and some are more inhibited. That's just the way we are. Respect people's wishes without judgment, and it will come back to reward you. May 04 06 04:09 pm Link Sounds Wayyy too complicated of a situation - I say let's just meet - you smile,turn,hold in yer stomach - smile occasionally and let's just git 'er done... ;0) May 05 06 12:04 am Link I had a shoot set up with Playboy a while back. Everything happened so fast, from the interview and emails to the shoot date...and I think I got 'caught up in the moment' and agreed to it. During this time I was working a lot and didnt have a moment to myself (this all happened within a week or so) So my Boyfriend and I were on the freeway speeding to the shoot when we got pulled over. The Cop was an ass and ran BOTH of our names and took forever to let write a 10mph/over ticket  But I'm thankfull that he pulled us over because I was speeding to a rush decision that I had made. While we sat there we had a chance to talk about what was going on as we reflected on how fast things happened. My BF is 100% supportive of me and would not tell me 'No', if its sumthing that I really wanted to do. He has a damn good Poker face  I looked at him and said "I think I'm making a mistake". He just asked If I were sure. I said "Yeah, I'm sure" I was going to call the production persons to tell them, but We decided it would be best to talk to them in person. We walked in and there were a million staff persons there! and a couple other girls that flew in and were shooting. I met with the person I needed to talk with and she was beyond understanding and still supportive. They have good people working for them.  She gave me a little talk & her contact info..then I left after looking around a bit at the set, equipment, etc... I have so much respect for that company. I dont regret not shooting.....It just wasnt for me at the time. Im still a Non-nude model/Actor today May 05 06 10:51 am Link It's somewhat eye-opening to read these anecdotes. I've shot tons of nudes and tons of non-nudes. I've never run into an issue, either with myself or a model. I've pitched nude projects to models who accepted and some who politely declined. Again, never an issue. And I'm regularly asked by new models to shoot implied and nude sets of them for their book - likely because I have that in my book. My advice? Relax. May 05 06 02:07 pm Link I have had important personal projects (editorial submissions) ruined by such stupid fickleness. I, for one, put models who change their mind about the previously agreed-upon conditions/parameters right at the actual shoot on my BLACKLIST. JAY carreon PHOTOGRAPHER May 06 06 02:59 am Link |
