Cool Artist2005 wrote:
I did not know you can contract a TFCD.....thank you

You should have a cotract for all professional work including tfcd.

Cool Artist2005 wrote:
As an MUA and or stylist, what do you do when thw model does not show.....
Many people are telling me if they don't show then I have the right to send them a bill for my kit fee because I was promised pictures for my work.....I mean the last time I tarveled to queens and I lost  a lo of money in transportation because this chick did not show.....i mena Gas is not cheap anymore.....I was wondering what does everybody thinka bout this?

Was Gas ever cheap?

Terrence Blount wrote:

Was Gas ever cheap?

Yes, but I made the choice to quite the 40 mile commute when it looked like it was going to hit $1/gallon.
I can't imagine that commute at $3/gallon.

Mark Anderson wrote:
Kit fee?  On TFCD?   Guess I'll have to start charging a "studio fee" and a "camera fee".  When a model is a no show it's best to just move on.  I feel it's their loss.

Couldn't have said it better myself...=*^)

ChristerArt wrote:

Couldn't have said it better myself...=*^)

I am going to have to second that, or was it thirds?

DigitalSwede wrote:
I, as a photographer, make the model sign a release stating that if he/she is a no show to the TFCD shoot than her money down ($100) goes to both the MUA and I. And yes.... it is TFCD...until they stand me up, once they do that their security deposit is evenly distributed between us. I have found this to work EXTREMELY well despite what others on here might think. I havent had a no call/ no show in quiet sometime, and when they dont show I still get some expenses covered.

smart guy and this is what I would ask the photographer to do....Hold the money and give it back if you like when she shows.  NEVER NEVER NEVER trust a model to show up on a free shoot....NEVER NEVER NEVER.   She will no-show if shes having a bad hair day, if she feels bloated, if she stayed out late etc....the excuses go on and on and you really shouldnt be doing TFCD without some sort of deposit.

When I was doing model testing I would charge $250.00 to $300.00 for 5 hours work, the model paid and in fact I have agreed to do one of these in a few weeks because the photographer is a friend and he asked me to do it.  I will not show up unless all the money is in my paypal account 2 weeks prior the shoot.  I did let the model know that if the money wasnt there on this date (2 weeks prior) she would be off my calander and I would take the next job that comes by that day.

I even told her the reason and she laughed, she said she understood the bad hair feeling fat days and she could totally understand how that could happen.    I like to be real, be honest...people do understand when you give it to them straight.  The bottom line is, I am going to turn down a real job for this partial paying job and I will not lose out on a full day job that may have presented itself because some model doesnt feel like shooting.

If it were a TFCD situation I would be even more stingy with my time.  I would sure get some insurance that this model was going to show up.  If she doesnt have the money for a deposit then I don't want to work with her, shes probably a real flake

Ashley Elizabeth wrote:
This is why I test with agency models.  They tend not to be as flakey.

'

exactly.   I wouldnt test with a non-agency model anyway, if the agency doesnt want them, they probably wont do my book much good.

Chili wrote:
well there are several things you could do

only shoot with photographers who you know who have tfp models who always show up

make an arrangement with the photog that he/she will cover any expenses in the case of a no show

or be a prick, spend $5 and file a small claims against the model (provided you know her name/address) and go to night court and try to collect $50-$75 from her

It's still easier to get the $50 or $75 deposit up front.

Mark Anderson wrote:
Kit fee?  On TFCD?   Guess I'll have to start charging a "studio fee" and a "camera fee".  When a model is a no show it's best to just move on.  I feel it's their loss.

actually if you have an artist waiting, its the artists loss because a lot of work goes into packing your stuff, driving to the studio, unpacking, waiting, pack up again and drive home.  Some artists have kids, they call in babysitters, some give up other paid jobs because they committed to a test.   

I can not imagine any professional photographer or artist working without a deposit in these testing situations.  You dont put much value on yourself or your skills if you don't take a deposit on your time, and I wouldnt want to work with anyone that values themselves so little..... I would think a little self examination would be in order.

Pete Flanagan wrote:
Deposits are the cure for no shows.

When I see a model profile that requests a deposit I'm like, whatever, and click to go to the next one. I think most good, experienced models would do the same to a photographer requesting a deposit. For me it's a case-by-case thing. Asking for a deposit from an agency model is an insult to her.

Mary wrote:
If it were a TFCD situation I would be even more stingy with my time.  I would sure get some insurance that this model was going to show up.  If she doesnt have the money for a deposit then I don't want to work with her, shes probably a real flake

That is a little unfair dont  you think.... I'm sorry but I am a 21 year old college student.... I don't ever have 200$ just sitting around with nothing better to do than to put down on a TFCD shoot............. I have never shot anything but TFP\TFCD and I have only cxld 1 shoot due to the death of my father.... Are you telling me that if I would have put 200$ down on that shoot and would have heard that my father passed away that the photographer would get to keep that 200$. I think not. That's insensitive and cruel. I've been flaked on by photographers AND makeup artists soo please don't make the models out to be the only can-be-fishy ones.

Gregory Garecki wrote:

When I see a model profile that requests a deposit I'm like, whatever, and click to go to the next one. I think most good, experienced models would do the same to a photographer requesting a deposit. For me it's a case-by-case thing. Asking for a deposit from an agency model is an insult to her.

The distinction has already been made in this thread....we are talking about webmodels, not agency models.   Most of us know better then to charge a Ford or Elite model a deposit, unfortunately most testing type photographers (99% of the MM photographers) cant get a Ford or Elite model, thats why we're having this conversation.

Miss Aimee wrote:

That is a little unfair dont  you think.... I'm sorry but I am a 21 year old college student.... I don't ever have 200$ just sitting around with nothing better to do than to put down on a TFCD shoot............. I have never shot anything but TFP\TFCD and I have only cxld 1 shoot due to the death of my father.... Are you telling me that if I would have put 200$ down on that shoot and would have heard that my father passed away that the photographer would get to keep that 200$. I think not. That's insensitive and cruel. I've been flaked on by photographers AND makeup artists soo please don't make the models out to be the only can-be-fishy ones.

I dont test and wouldnt test with a non agency model so its a moot point

Mary wrote:
I dont test and wouldnt test with a non agency model so its a moot point

But don't you see the opportunity you leave yourself closed off too?
Agency models are obviously well trained and taught, etc. but what about us little amateurs? People didn't pay you the first time you picked up a bruch and said let me do your makeup. It is the same with models. No one is going to pay us. The only way for us to get anywhere, (us being: models, photographers and makeup artist) when we are just starting off is TFP. Saying you don't do TFP is like saying you are too good for the beginners..... and trust me someone had to have taken a chance on you when you were a beginner.....

Miss Aimee wrote:

But don't you see the opportunity you leave yourself closed off too?
Agency models are obviously well trained and taught, etc. but what about us little amateurs? People didn't pay you the first time you picked up a bruch and said let me do your makeup. It is the same with models. No one is going to pay us. The only way for us to get anywhere, (us being: models, photographers and makeup artist) when we are just starting off is TFP. Saying you don't do TFP is like saying you are too good for the beginners..... and trust me someone had to have taken a chance on you when you were a beginner.....

I dont believe any artist should be working with non-agency models free, if the agency doesnt see potential in a model, the model probably doesnt belong in an artists book.  I do understand that a brand new artist may have to start with a non-agency model....those are the models they need to get a deposit from.  If a model can't come up with $100.00 for a deposit move on to one who can...non-agency models are a dime a dozen

Mary wrote:
I dont believe any artist should be working with non-agency models free, if the agency doesnt see potential in a model, the model probably doesnt belong in an artists book.  I do understand that a brand new artist may have to start with a non-agency model....those are the models they need to get a deposit from.  If a model can't come up with $100.00 for a deposit move on to one who can...non-agency models are a dime a dozen

hmm. Yo intiendo.
Thank You

Gregory Garecki wrote:

When I see a model profile that requests a deposit I'm like, whatever, and click to go to the next one. I think most good, experienced models would do the same to a photographer requesting a deposit. For me it's a case-by-case thing. Asking for a deposit from an agency model is an insult to her.

Good, experienced models understand the business and they know that deposits are standard business practice.  Are you suggesting that, if an "agency" model calls wanting work done, she shouldn't be asked to put up a deposit because she is and "agency model?"  Frankly, I don't give a hoot if a model is insulted because she is asked to put up earnest money.

Miss Aimee wrote:

That is a little unfair dont  you think.... I'm sorry but I am a 21 year old college student.... I don't ever have 200$ just sitting around with nothing better to do than to put down on a TFCD shoot............. I have never shot anything but TFP\TFCD and I have only cxld 1 shoot due to the death of my father.... Are you telling me that if I would have put 200$ down on that shoot and would have heard that my father passed away that the photographer would get to keep that 200$. I think not. That's insensitive and cruel. I've been flaked on by photographers AND makeup artists soo please don't make the models out to be the only can-be-fishy ones.

Hey, sorry to hear about your dad.  If I was holding your deposit, and you sent me a copy of the obituary, you'd get your deposit back.  I don't want to sound insensitive but, when discussing a particular Chicago area model with several other photogs, I learned that her "favorite granny" died at least 7 times in a 6 month period.

As far as not having the money for a deposit, I find it interesting that so many "models" have money to go clubbing, buying CDs, adorning themselves with plenty of bling bling, money for tattoos, money for lotsa anytime minutes and textmessages - but they cry broke when photogs give them a quote.

There are plenty of places where aspiring models can get money for photoshoots.  They can save it up.  They can borrow it from friends or relatives.  They can have mom and dad spring for a photoshoot as an "early" birthday or Christmas gift.  Some salons will even sponsor models.  One model I shot years ago scraped up her sitting fee by baking cookies and going to the fire stations to put the beg on the firemen.  She managed to scrape up the money...and she showed.

Miss Aimee wrote:
I've been flaked on by photographers AND makeup artists soo please don't make the models out to be the only can-be-fishy ones.

I'm definitely sorry to hear about your father.  It's not that models are the only flaky ones, they're just the flakiest when it comes to unpaid shoots.