Kaitlin Lara wrote:
So there's the big question...do you tell and make yourself look like some bitter bitch who can't keep her mouth shut and possibly ruin your reputation, or do you keep quiet and risk other people having the same experience? Oh, and bonus points if you reply with your own awesome horror story.

I have had shoots that did not turn out well at all.

The subject needed photos for her resume, and arrived hung over. Needless to say, she was not happy with the results. Go figure.

In your case, do not be proactive. There really is no plus side, and there is a chance of a big down side.

Respond honestly to anyone who asks.

LagunaPhoto wrote:
he was wrong to ask to touch you

and you were wrong to let him.

                                         Peroid.

Well stated.

Ps.  Real massages include touching of the buttocks,

You should not be laying down when getting a simply shoulder massage at a shoot,  not rare.

laying down for a message on a shoot... extremely rare.

I have two chow dogs and when they do not not want some dog sniffin their ass, they just sit down.

Do not confuse, what is uncalled for with what is a real massage.  A photo shoot is not the time for a real massage and not from a photographer you just met that day.

Shoulder massages are done with long time friends who have worked together on jobs over a long period of time. 

(I want to delete this,  but disservice is being done to massages and to proper conduct on a shoot.  The two do not go together.)

Zoe Wiseman wrote:
rule #1 don't touch the model
rule #2 don't touch the model
rule #3 don't touch the model

Backrubs no but I disagree that a model should never be touched.
do not work with me ever if I will be arrested for touching your face to move it.

Marksora wrote:
Backrubs no but I disagree that a model should never be touched.
do not work with me ever if I will be arrested for touching your face to move it.

then you should ask to do it first. a model is vunerable when shooting. that should be respected. especially if it is a nude shoot. i shot commercially and as a figure model when i modeled, no one has ever touched me. if you know how to communicate properly the model should be able to move her face by herself. not that moving a models face is a bad thing... especially when clothed, but if it's for a nude shoot keep your hands off at all times.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:

then you should ask to do it first. a model is vunerable when shooting. that should be respected.

Sorry I disagree.   A backrub and moving a model who needs to be moved are different things.

Good for you if that is the way you work.   I do not go grabbing model and throwing them around but if you are paranoid by my touching skin then do not work with me.  Period.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:

then you should ask to do it first. a model is vunerable when shooting. that should be respected. especially if it is a nude shoot. i shot commercially and as a figure model when i modeled, no one has ever touched me. if you know how to communicate properly the model should be able to move her face by herself. not that moving a models face is a bad thing... especially when clothed, but if it's for a nude shoot keep your hands off at all times.

I still disagree though to a lesser degree,  I do not do many nudes shoot but they are often closed.  If you are placed wrong and I need to move something under your leg or your face then it should be fine.   I am not there to fondle you or touch your butt.

I am there to get the best shot possible.  If you need security to have them move your leg then good luck.   Some may work that way but not the way I shoot.   Often my shots are done in the dark and I bump into the model at times,  if the model feels the need to write a blog on the issue then no thankyou very much.

Marksora wrote:

I still disagree though to a lesser degree,  I do not do many nudes shoot but they are often closed.  If you are placed wrong and I need to move something under your leg or your face then it should be fine.   I am not there to fondle you or touch your butt.

I am there to get the best shot possible.  If you need security to have them move your leg then good luck.   Some may work that way but not the way I shoot.   Often my shots are done in the dark and I bump into the model at times,  if the model feels the need to write a blog on the issue then no thankyou very much.

Clumsy little devil, aren't you?
Rules #1, #2, #3!
I would certainly not advise a model friend of mine to work with you. You need directing skills.

DigitalCMH wrote:
I gave one of my models a footrub.  But that's because we're friends and I was trying to watch my Angels (lose game 5 to the white sox) and she was sleeping on the couch and put her feet up on my lap.

So note to models, if you don't want me to rub your feet, don't put them on my lap.

And for what's worth, she said that was the best massage EVER!

Hurry, I book fast!

I want a foot rub!!!!! lol

Kiersten Weaver wrote:
I want a foot rub!!!!! lol

I see that you're married.  That's more trouble than I'm willing to get into.  Plus, he's in the military and can probably shoot me.

LagunaPhoto wrote:
he was wrong to ask to touch you

and you were wrong to let him. 

This shoot was a train wreck from that start.

Didn't I say I told him to stop immediately after it turned inappropriate? I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt.

DigitalCMH wrote:
I gave one of my models a footrub...
...So note to models, if you don't want me to rub your feet, don't put them on my lap... And for what's worth, she said that was the best massage EVER!

Hurry, I book fast!

Reminds me of a TV sitcom that I saw regarding a similar issue.
A female was upset because some guy wanted to give her a foot massage.

The guy kept insisting that it's no big deal, it's not a sexual thing, that he does it all the time.

Then, a big burly male sits down and says "that sounds good, go ahead and give me a foot massage"!

CMH...be careful what you wish for.

Marksora wrote:

Well stated.

Ps.  Real massages include touching of the buttocks,

You should not be laying down when getting a simply shoulder massage at a shout,  not rare.

laying down for a message on a shout... extremely rare.

I have a chows dogs and when they do not not want some dog sniffin their ass they just sit down.

Do not confuse what is uncalled for with what is a real massage.  A photo shoot is not the time for a real massage and not from a photographer you just met that day.

Shoulder massages are done with long time friends who have worked together on jobs over a long period of time. 

(I want to delete this,  but disservice is being done to massages and to proper conduct on a shoot.  The two do not go together.)

Apparently everyone's forgetting that I was just starting out, I'm a very trusting individual, and I assumed he had good intentions. I wasn't laying down...when you sit you do not have your entire butt in contact with the surface you're on, do you? I didn't say he jammed a finger up my butt or anything...he touched my butt...you don't have to be laying down for that to happen. I was trusting and naive, I will admit that, but all the blame for this does not belong on me. People should have more dignity than to take advantage of a situation like that, I assumed this person did, and I was wrong for that, but he was wrong for not having the decency to behave in a professional manner.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
As soon as this guy asked to give you a backrub the light bulb should have have gone off. No legit photog offers a rubdown with an escort and his wife present! Not to mention that if you were paid for the shoot, you are not entitled to any images so what you got is what youre stuck with. Definately do not work with him again and NEVER let some random photog touch you without good reason i.e. adjust your head position.

People are apparently ignoring bits and pieces of my post to make it look worse than it is. I said I was fine with the shots being horrible because I got paid. What I was NOT ok with was a photo of my crotch that should never have been taken.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:
a model is vunerable when shooting. that should be respected. especially if it is a nude shoot.

Model is only vulnerable if you make her feel that way. My shoots are a blast, models kick my a$$, I set my cat on them, we headbang to loud music, scream at people out of the window, then they (models) steal my camera off me, I pull their hair to stop them, they want me to get naked, I start to laugh my a$$ off (as they would start running amok after they saw me), and it just goes like that...

I only shoot nudes. All my models are non models - random girls who were referred by someone or found me themselves. They have never modelled before (and have no interest to pursue it further) and they are fully nude at our first meeting. No, I make my models feel beautiful, I make them feel like a goddess, during my photoshoots they are strong, self confident women, not vulnerable which seems to be your experience.

DigitalCMH wrote:
I gave one of my models a footrub.  But that's because we're friends and I was trying to watch my Angels (lose game 5 to the white sox) and she was sleeping on the couch and put her feet up on my lap.

So note to models, if you don't want me to rub your feet, don't put them on my lap.

And for what's worth, she said that was the best massage EVER!

Hurry, I book fast!

waaaaaaaait a second.  why wasn't I informed?

MY FEET ARE ACHING!

(sometimes I sit in the shower and massage my feet O.o)

SayCheeZ! wrote:

Reminds me of a TV sitcom that I saw regarding a similar issue.
A female was upset because some guy wanted to give her a foot massage.

The guy kept insisting that it's no big deal, it's not a sexual thing, that he does it all the time.

Then, a big burly male sits down and says "that sounds good, go ahead and give me a foot massage"!

CMH...be careful what you wish for.

I can always say I'm booked up

Hey, I wonder if they ripped that scenario from Pulp Fiction or if they ripped it from PF.  Have you seen that movie?  Samuel Jackson and John Travolta are going back and forth about how sexual a foot massage is.  Samuel Jackson's character kept saying it was innocent and didn't mean anything.  Finally the argument was "settled" when Travolta asked him if he'd give him a foot massage in which Jackon's character responded with a "Fuck you!"

Moleirinho Images wrote:
Make sure before you shoot that you like his type of photography and style, you should be able to tell by his porfolio if he's any good.
You were right by bringing someone with you.
I feel bad for models because there are alot of creeps out there who act as photographers, but there are also alot of professionals so how do you tell them apart... I don't know. All you can do is get as much information about the photographer and the shoot before you go.
Being a female photographer I never run into these problems, I still think you should still bring someone with you either way to be safe.

Never let the photographer touch you!

Ah...but one big problem with this guy is that his portfolio is actually pretty good. I guess when you shoot as much as he does you have to get a good shot once in a while. He even admitted to me at the shoot that my favorite photo of his was an accident. He apparently only posted a very small portion of his work online to make him appear better than he was, because he showed me a lot more of his work when I got there, and 98% of it was awful. I agree with you that there is a dillema because it's hard to tell who's a good guy and who's just looking to see hot chicks naked, and that's why I wish I could tell people about my experience. How can people know if no one tells them?

model7299 wrote:

waaaaaaaait a second.  why wasn't I informed?

MY FEET ARE ACHING!

(sometimes I sit in the shower and massage my feet O.o)

You're being informed now.


Hmmm...out of the two girls that have expressed interest, one is married and the other is 17...are you people TRYING to get me into trouble?

Besides, I'm in Los Angeles.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:
it's much different if the model asks the photographer... hey, my shoulders hurt... do you mind giving me a quick rub? that's totally different.

I completely disagree, if a model is asking the photographer to touch her, it’s a wrong as the photographer asking to touch her, there is never a time when people should be rubbing each other in a photo shoot.

If your shoulders hurt, ask your boyfriend to rub them, not a photographer.

Marksora wrote:

Backrubs no but I disagree that a model should never be touched.
do not work with me ever if I will be arrested for touching your face to move it.

"Left a little more, stop! Chin down, hold that. Good."  Works for me.

Lens N Light wrote:
Clumsy little devil, aren't you?
Rules #1, #2, #3!
I would certainly not advise a model friend of mine to work with you. You need directing skills.

Chasing The Light wrote:
"Left a little more, stop! Chin down, hold that. Good."  Works for me.

You know what,  you are both so correct.  My bad.  As you can see from my photos and my profile,  I just started taking photos just this year when my mommy gave me a camera.
I noticed that you both have so much more skill than I in model choice,  lighting,  posing,  and images.   I will just shut up now and learn from your great wisdom.

Hopefully you all can forgive a newbie GWC like me.

I am only here to learn from the exuding greatness eminenting from your work.

Oh well,  lunch is over.  Back to cleaning the bathrooms.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
I'm sure everyone's had this happen...you shoot with someone...and they suck. Perhaps it's a model who's gained 50 pounds since the last photo she posted, or a photographer who doesn't even know what aperture is. We get over it and move on though...right? But what if it doesn't feel like that's enough?

When I was just starting out I worked with a photographer who will remain nameless. He offered to give me a massage, and since my escort was in the room with us and his wife was right in the kitchen, I figured, ok...why not? My back's aching anyway. Well, he totally touched my butt. I said that was enough of that and we finished the shoot without any more problems. When I got my shots back from him I looked at them and did not find one single useable shot. They were all completely wretched. I could've dealt with that since I got paid for the shoot, so I didn't get nothing out of the deal. Then I saw one of the shots he took. It was a closeup of my crotch. Granted, I was wearing shorts so it wasn't too bad, but unless I was suffering from temporary amnesia he had not asked if he could take a picture of my crotch, nor did he appear to be taking a picture of my crotch at any point. He just zoomed in and snapped it before I could notice. Way uncool. That on top of the "back"rub and the horrible pictures, and I wouldn't work with him again no matter how much he paid.

I know what you're thinking...just get over it...well I am over it happening to me...but what about other models? He has all these good comments on his page about how great working with him is and blah blah blah, and maybe he's not usually like that, but I can't help but feel like other girls should know how he treated me. If he'd be ashamed of other models hearing my story, then he shouldn't have acted that way, right?

So there's the big question...do you tell and make yourself look like some bitter bitch who can't keep her mouth shut and possibly ruin your reputation, or do you keep quiet and risk other people having the same experience? Oh, and bonus points if you reply with your own awesome horror story.

I don’t know what you are searching for as far a closure but I don’t think it’s worth the time and effort to pursue “justiceâ€? with this photographer.

This post makes you seem rather vengeful and that you have a strong dislike for what you say this guy did to you. May be it’s not only a dislike of what you allege that he did to you but also that you let him do it and you are still mentally kicking yourself for that.

Perhaps one of the reasons that he gets these glowing comments and reviews is that he learned from shooting with you that he crossed the line and he makes sure that he doesn’t do something like that again. Alternatively, the models that are giving him the praise are just juicing him for another paid shoot. Maybe there are actually some people that don’t think his photography sucks and appreciate it. Who knows?

So let’s assume that you blow the whistle on this guy. It then basically becomes a he said/she said which neither of you win.  Sad to say but there are models that will shot with any photographer that pays them (gasp! shock!) and their standards for shooting all of a sudden drop. It never seems to occur to them that perhaps a reason for offering the payment is that the photographer is not that good and is looking for skilled models to help them.  Also, unless the images were part of the compensation (i.e. reduced rate shoot) why would you be expecting images from a paid shoot? Personally, I will offer an image(s) to a model as a “tipâ€? or sign of appreciation if I pay for a shoot but getting paid and getting images leaves me to wonder what this guy was shooting for (which in mind goes to support your allegation that this guy was up to no good)? I digress. So you tell on this guy, there is no upside for this especially if it is as you said you gave him “permissionâ€? to touch you (albeit, somewhat coerced), which will end up in some “blame the victimâ€? interpretation – like asking a rapist to wear a condom.


The major point is that you learned a lesson from your experience and I’d advise you to stop dwelling on this otherwise the negativity will cloud your willingness to be open to photographers that don’t deserve a presumption of perversity that this experience will has created for you if you let it.

You do have a choice with how you deal with this experience. You’ve learned your lesson so give yourself permission to move on and stop worrying about things that you can not control (like the fact that others may like his work).