Posted by aye provide: 
Treands dictate who works.

Posted by Joe K. Perez:
snipped.....
Thanks to what's been written in this thread (and I hope there's more yet to come!), I've been putting a lot of thought on some new things I could try to to get going on my end. Things that I will want to keep you all abreast of. I hope this thread doesn't disappear into the ozone. John, Area291 and A. Hamilton,

Joe,

I hope this is new a start down a new road to some serious dialogue and much needed information on MM from the people above and others. In my last recent message to John I mentioned MM could use some of his postings that he used to do on one of the first forums we were on.

Much of the knowledge I learned about the industry came from John and that's probably only a third of what he actually knows. I've worked with John and he once lived in my studio for a month on his road trip across the country in search of a new place to start up again (previously was in VA). Of all the places he ends up, Miami. Lousy bastard! lol

I hope this kind of dialogue continues on here because it is badly needed.

This and other info "MUST" be made into an FAQ "NOW" or it will get buried. Too much info is buried already and the forums are becoming extremely boring and redundant (except for the great slamming matches of course). How many times must I bitch about this? This is extremely important and is a high priority addition for this site.

Posted by Joe K. Perez:   I believe with just a little bit of effort, many in the freelance division of the community, working in tandem with the Agencies, can develop a connection with agencies all over the world and fill the huge gaping hole in the Model Development and Management area.

So I'm still not sure what this huge gaping hole is?

In the fashion market the agencies have aspiring models coming out of their ears, they get so many submissions and visits to open calls on a continual basis it's ridiculous. There is no shortage of models. Yes, they're always looking and they'll always want to see someone with true potential and there will always be new blood. But if you look at the web sites of 10 or 20 fashion agencies in either NYC, London or Paris you'll be stunned at how many incredible 5'10-5'11 34-24-34 girls there are.

But even though all those girls are signed, not that many of them are working consistently. When you have a casting there are dozen's or more girls showing up. Models are going on many, many castings between bookings.

There may be a few, very few, models on these portfolio sights that could work in a real fashion market, and the agencies could possibly use them if they are in or will move to the market,  and if they're not clueless and have the right attitude. But they don't need any of them.

In commercial agencies there are also plenty of models, I think they sometimes have a shortage of certain types, generally older or old, and of some ethnicities. Not the kind of wannabee's found on these sites. There are tons of people on these sites who could possibly fill roles in "real people" commercial modeling, but they seem to have little interest in that, and they have no clue what kind of work they need for it or the ability to recognize the kind of photographers they need to work with. On top of that, once again, modeling is local, but there is most often not much local modeling to speak of in most places outside major metropolitan areas. And again, there are generally way more models than jobs already. The jobs are often infrequent. The models need to be available for castings and jobs on short notice and be in close proximity. There is no such thing as flying in the model from Oklahoma for a casting in Chicago on two hours notice, then putting them up for two or three days until the job, or flying them back and forth, all for the 200 or 500 dollar job. Same if it's a direct booking from the card without a casting or audition.

Posted by area291: 
As a former agency division head it worked like this (note: not all agencies work the same):

---Individuals submitted pictures / comp for representation;
---If not interested nothing happened (xmas filed) unless the person submitting provided a SASE for picture return;
---Upon being selected they were notified to come in for a meeting;
---They were told representation required geographic (market and surrounding area) exclusivity;
---Upon their acceptance a listing of qualified photographers was provided for them to contact for at minimum a usable headshot;
---Contact, photography payment, scheduling was left up to that individual...it showed if they were serious;
---Standard Procedure for headshots and individual portfolio work:  Photographer would deliver a contact sheet to the agency for reviewing with the model;
---If a comp was provided and the model was accepted the agency requested a stack to get to clients.  An agency sticker was placed on the comp for booking information;
---New and updated comps were continuously delivered to clients.  The agency front line relationships were with Ad Agencies and Corporate Marketing/Creative department heads.  Photographers, although important to have strong relationships, were not considered "front line" clients (most of those we worked with referred clients to the agency for bookings to avoid being in competition);
---Upon Model Request:  Those on roster would be "pulled" by bookers per stats requested by clients and rates provided;
---Upon client interest a go-see might be arranged for portfolio viewing and assignment overview, or;
---Client booked model;
---Model completed assignment and client signed voucher;
---Voucher turned in to booker; booker approved and submitted to accounting, accounting sent bill, client paid bill, model received check (after the client paid) less agency commission;
---Next assignment...

Bottom line...if a photographer chooses to "manage" models they then become agency competitors.  An agency with an ever expanding and rotating roster will refer far more work than a few non-affiliated models seeking stardom.

I know I'm a little late to the party, but I just wanted to re-affirm that my experience with agencies, as a model, has mirrored what area291 has said to a "T." Not only that though, but I was not surprised about any of this like some posters here - I read most of this stuff online and in a couple of random modeling books about commercial modeling. The information is out there, you just have to find it!

P.S. I'm an engineer too.

Posted by Glamour Studio /Gary: 
...snip...
This and other info "MUST" be made into an FAQ "NOW" or it will get buried. Too much info is buried already and the forums are becoming extremely boring and redundant (except for the great slamming matches of course). How many times must I bitch about this? This is extremely important and is a high priority addition for this site.

I agree. I've the mind to start doing it myself and share with the community after you've all agreed on the format and approved the content. What says you all?

Posted by Aaron_H: 

Posted by Joe K. Perez:  ...snip...many in the freelance division of the community, working in tandem with the Agencies, ...snip....

So I'm still not sure what this huge gaping hole is?

...snip...

It's not clearly defined at the moment. I'm hoping we can. Time and distance notwithstanding.

Posted by Jacqui: 

Posted by area291: 
As a former agency division head it worked like this (note: not all agencies work the same):

---Individuals submitted pictures / comp for representation;
---If not interested nothing happened (xmas filed) unless the person submitting provided a SASE for picture return;
---Upon being selected they were notified to come in for a meeting;
---They were told representation required geographic (market and surrounding area) exclusivity;
---Upon their acceptance a listing of qualified photographers was provided for them to contact for at minimum a usable headshot;
---Contact, photography payment, scheduling was left up to that individual...it showed if they were serious;
---Standard Procedure for headshots and individual portfolio work:  Photographer would deliver a contact sheet to the agency for reviewing with the model;
---If a comp was provided and the model was accepted the agency requested a stack to get to clients.  An agency sticker was placed on the comp for booking information;
---New and updated comps were continuously delivered to clients.  The agency front line relationships were with Ad Agencies and Corporate Marketing/Creative department heads.  Photographers, although important to have strong relationships, were not considered "front line" clients (most of those we worked with referred clients to the agency for bookings to avoid being in competition);
---Upon Model Request:  Those on roster would be "pulled" by bookers per stats requested by clients and rates provided;
---Upon client interest a go-see might be arranged for portfolio viewing and assignment overview, or;
---Client booked model;
---Model completed assignment and client signed voucher;
---Voucher turned in to booker; booker approved and submitted to accounting, accounting sent bill, client paid bill, model received check (after the client paid) less agency commission;
---Next assignment...

Bottom line...if a photographer chooses to "manage" models they then become agency competitors.  An agency with an ever expanding and rotating roster will refer far more work than a few non-affiliated models seeking stardom.

I know I'm a little late to the party, but I just wanted to re-affirm that my experience with agencies, as a model, has mirrored what area291 has said to a "T." Not only that though, but I was not surprised about any of this like some posters here - I read most of this stuff online and in a couple of random modeling books about commercial modeling. The information is out there, you just have to find it!

P.S. I'm an engineer too.

Yes your right, all the info is out there and many of us keep pointing the way to it. The problem is no one bothers to look, especially models. Alot of people just put links to the info now because truthfuly we're tired of answering the same questions over and over and over again. It's gotten ridiculous.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 

Posted by Glamour Studio /Gary: 
...snip...
This and other info "MUST" be made into an FAQ "NOW" or it will get buried. Too much info is buried already and the forums are becoming extremely boring and redundant (except for the great slamming matches of course). How many times must I bitch about this? This is extremely important and is a high priority addition for this site.

I agree. I've the mind to start doing it myself and share with the community after you've all agreed on the format and approved the content. What says you all?

This being the first tread that has been worth donating time to, count me in. I further would like to add that the time is now. Start doing it and then build on input.

Posted by XtremeArtists: 
Art directors and ad agencies have established relationships with their local agencies. On top of the fact that they rub elbows with each other at industry events, people who book models for commercial work know that agency models will be on time and dependable. There is an agency with a reputation to protect making sure the model does her part.

Photographers have established relationships with the models they work with. All of us have favorites who we work with and can call on at a moment's notice.

I'm wondering then who are the clients for internet managers? What advantage do internet managers have as a major selling point to someone hiring models? They are the client, after all.

Maybe they'll answer you in the FAQ.