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A few thoughts on travel
Today I've stumbled across a number of posts by models saying they'll travel if all expenses are paid; plus a bunch of responses to a photographer halfway around the world saying *interested if airfare is paid* OK, I'm in a profession where clients really do pay to fly me to all sorts of bizarre places. But then, there are at best a few hundred others who do what I do, so that's to be expected. But there are lots of models and photographers; if the guy in Ireland needs a model, why is he going to pay to fly somebody none of us have ever heard of in from the U.S.? Even if he can't find a local model, there are bunches of them in England. Which brings me to my real point: As a photographer, it seems that the risks of flying in an internet model outweigh the benefits. That would be a very expensive no-show; unless you pay even more for a refundable ticket. Yet it's not unreasonable for a model to attempt to avoid fronting the ticket money herself. It makes more sense booking through a land-based agency, but on the web? I don't think so. Here's what I do, by default: I go to the model. It's even better because mostly I'm there on business, with a client covering the travel expenses. I often need to stay over the weekends, so it's easy to book a couple of shoots on my personal time. Or sometimes I use those accumulated frequent flyer miles, 200,000 at last count. Either way, I have control over my own schedule. I can book multiple models over a day or two, the record is 11 in a weekend; I get to shoot in new locations all the time; plus I get to travel and see new places. So I guess I'm wondering why so many people expect the models to do all the travel? Thoughts? Jul 04 05 05:27 pm Link Ken - I post that I travel. Period. I don't say "I travel if someone else foots the bill". Sometimes if a client really wants you, they'll pay for the travel too, as you have experienced. But most of the time, for freelance, the model pays the travel. This includes when the job is paid, I may not take a paying gig if the cost of travel isn't offset by the payment. (unless it's a place I want to visit anyway or can arrange other gigs while there) - HTH - Sara Jul 05 05 11:40 am Link I see you are in California, I dont know where Ferndale is though, Northern? The only travel I do is the 2 hour drive to LA or San Diego. I think it will take me years to work with all the models in southern California I want to work with before I even think about models from another state. It would have to be an extraordinary model to get me to travel out of state to do a shoot or to fly her out here. All but one of the top 20 models I want to work with lives in Cali, can't beat it. Jul 05 05 12:37 pm Link Michael, I guess it depends on the goals. My situation is atypical, after living/working in a major market (Chicago) most of my life, I chose to go someplace more remote... but still spend 20% of my time in the city. The balance works well, I shoot friends/other artists here, and experienced models when I'm on the road. My work is mostly location and partly about sense of place/relationship to the environment, so different cities give me different results. I agree that for some types of work, it's not necessary to leave one major market. What I'm wondering about are 1) the photographers in smaller places who have run through the regional talent pool, and 2) the models in smaller places who expect someone to fly them in. For the photographer, the ticket costs the same no matter who is on the plane; but shooting multiple models means either multiple tickets for the models, or one ticket to a major market to shoot with a bunch of models. None of this applies for a big commercial shoot, where a location is chosen, a team including photographer/mua/stylist/assistants sets up, and the talent is brought in. I'm talking about the person who can work out of a shoulder bag if they need to. Sara - good point, I know others who do that, too; booking one paid shoot to cover the travel costs, and then trying to line up a few other shoots while there. Jul 05 05 02:01 pm Link I say that I travel anywhere in the world if expenses are covered not because I'm expecting foreign photographers/clients to hire me but because like Sara said, if they can't cover for the airfare or if the payment isn't enough to cover the airfare plus some profit, there's no point for me to consider, or for that photographer to bother writing to me. --I don't care whether the travel cost is included in the payment or they's cover the cost separately, or if the photographer/crew decides to fly in instead - it's the same thing to me. But hey, if the photographer wants to take all his equipments do the travel for me instead, that's completely welcome, although I think that's pretty rare. I put this on my profile because I noticed that there are alot of out-of-state and out-of-US photographers that saw my folio since joining MM that wants to work with me. If that model never hears interests from foreign countries or out of state, or if she only wants to work locally, then I guess there's no point in posting that. The same goes for photographers. But seriously, I think what to post on a model's profile and her preference to travel is really her choice... I don't know if I understand why you even care... I mean from what you're saying, you're not gonna bother flying in models anyway, if at all you'd travel yourself, right? Wouldn't it boil down to whether or not that photographer LIKES traveling with all his equipment, or prefers to pay the model to do the traveling instead??? Jul 05 05 02:23 pm Link luvbrace - partially I'm trying to understand people's thinking on this, and everyone who has responded so far has been helpful in that sense. The statement on your page is reasonable and informative, no problem there, and you have enough experience that it's even fair for you to expect someone might occasionally pick up the tab. Let's just say that the posters who prompted my original questions were being a little less realistic in their self-assessment? When my clients fly me in, it's because they can't find what they need close to the project site, or because we have an established relationship and they'd rather not go up the learning curve with someone new. But when bidding on something far away, there's always one question: What can we offer that's unique enough to sell the client on picking up the added costs? Jul 05 05 02:54 pm Link Posted by Ken Mierzwa: Ah. understood ; ) Yea, well lets just say that less experienced models and new models are trying to get into this industry with much hope and excitement... I think many of them are just curious about the industry because someone's told them they're photogenic and they're hoping for something really cool to happen, like a top photographer running across their page and flying them over to market them to top designers like Guess and Calvin Klein. It's like winning a lottery, almost... Jul 05 05 03:04 pm Link I've gotten so many offers for TFP from people at least four hours away from me. That would mean I would have drive at least 8 hours total, shoot for at least 2, so thats a ten hour day of work for prints. Maybe thats practical for some people but not for me. I have a regular job but I do take days off sometime for shoots. My problem is that I share a car with my brother. So I would have to drop him off at work and then pick him up later. Thats why I can't just take a whole day to drive somewhere for prints. Everyone has different situations so you can't just expect someone to travel. I've refused offers from photographers who then send me back emails like, "Well I WAS going to pay for travel..." like they are doing me a huge service and I have now somehow insulted them. I travel when I can but sometimes it really just isn't worth it. Other times I bust my ass to work with someone I really want to work with. It just depends. Jul 05 05 03:37 pm Link I think as a whole for people on this site, both models & photographers need to learn expenses of travel and what it takes to do shoots. Being in the industry for over 25yrs, other than using modeling agencies for commerical or editorial work...is it rare to get models from ten states over to Detroit or Chicago for shoots that are for personal work. And viewing most that use this site, those are what your images boil down to. It's going to cost you a ton for s shoot and what end usage beyond either of your potfolios will this be used. Yes! I have used models from other states on stock image work, but I have a buget for those self assignments that turned into pay work for both me and the models.makeup artist stylist, assistants that I use for those jobs. So since you are all new to working with professionals, you need to understand it's a business and if you treat it in that manner it can be rewarding to us all. PLan out a shoot that you are going to do and every detail remember is a cost and once you get all those expenses there.....think is it worth it and will you benifit from it. Jul 05 05 03:51 pm Link That is a good point Leila... I haven't even been in LA a month and I've had numerous photographers contact me well over 60 miles away for TFP/CD shoots... In those situations, I ask the photog - are you in LA or are you wanting me to travel to you? If it's the latter, that's a tough situation. I'm also hesistant to do TFP/CD shoots on travel bc it seems easier to forget to send the model the images...  Jul 05 05 04:09 pm Link Gotta agree with Alex on this. I travel for work a lot, but for the most part, it's clients who know my work and depend on me being able to get the shots needed. Most of my travel work ends up being for sporting goods manufacturers, following their sponsored athletes to locations to shoot. Lots of watersports stuff. While I travel, I try to book commercial gigs along the way for my off days to keep busy. If an odd model comes along that I want to shoot, then I may line that up as well. Sleep is for the airplane. Everything costs money, and if your gig isn't paying for itself, then you're doing it for the art, and need to get used to being broke and unappreciated. Me, I'll just sell out and take pictures for "The Man". Jul 05 05 05:30 pm Link |
