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models and photographers - your mind
I had a incident yesterday with a model that irritated the bejesus out of me Situation - Model has posted on another model website and identifies what type of modeling HE wants to do(casual, runway, Artistic Nude). THIS IS A TFCD SHOOT. We respond to the model and we agree to shoot My partner picks the model up(that should have been a warning sign in itself). A 15 minute coversation BEFORE the shoot starts telling the model what will happen in the shoot. We explained that once the shoot was over we would go over the photos and delete the photos that we(the photographer and the model) didnt like. (Prime time to ask questions.) He would need to sign a model release before either of us could use the photos My partner and I shoot two different styles - yet we manage to work out some works of art if you will. During the shoot, the model was asked several times, from the both of us was he ok with what pictures were being taken(artistic nude). Model says yes. If a model says no then thats the signal to either change poses or stop the shoot all together. After the shoot, the model chooses to ask all the questions he should have asked before the shoot started or during the shoot. He stated I'm not comfortable with some of the poses and you cant use this one and this one. Mind you he hasn't seen ANY of the pictures because we didnt even have time to sit down and go over or delete them before he started ranting. He said he needed to talk to his lawyer before we proceed because he needed to protect his interest as he plays college ball. We gave him the CD anyway and told him since we hold the copyrights to the photos - we would hope that he wouldnt use the photos without our permission as well and feel free to talk to your lawyer and took him home. HERES MY THING. STOP ADVERTISING FOR THINGS YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH DOING. If he had a question, he was given many opprotunites to ask. No one put a gun to his head, no one made him take his clothes off and it was explained that knowing his situation and out of respect, we would not use a artistic nude/nude photo of him without talking to him first EVEN after he signed a release. If we were shooting with just clothes - we wouldn't be having this conversation at all but it was agreed upon prior. Can someone please explain to me what goes through models minds when they do this in the first place? Mar 27 06 08:26 am Link That's why... a) I get the model release signed before the first exposure is made. b) I tell models not to show the photographer anything they don't want photographed. c) I never give the model any editing (e.g. deleting) authority. I am flexible & will not display a photograph that makes the model uncomfortable, but I want that in their mind before & during the sitting. Thus, see a) & b) above. We don't know the full story, but if this happens to you on a regular basis, I suggest that you adapt your technique & organization to encourage these discussions better. Mar 27 06 09:42 am Link You may have created the bad situation for yourselves and the model. Things you may have done wrong: 1. It sounds as if you didn't discuss the full content of the shoot with the model before you made the booking. Never wait until fifteen minutes beforehand to discuss nudity. 2. You provided the model with transportation to the shoot, creating a situation where, at least in the model's mind, he is helpless to leave the shoot on his own. That created a key moment of vulnerability for all parties. 3. You shot nudes on a first shoot with a TFP model. Unless a model is every experienced and already has nudes posted on the Internet, always do a clothed shoot before even talking about shooting nudes. Overall, it seems like a newbie model was in your partner's car with no way home on his own before nudity was brought up. That is a worst-case scenario for discussing a photo shoot. Mar 27 06 09:46 am Link I know it's easy to say, but tfp/cd is a sharing thing. I am currently in the process of arranging three tfp/cd shoots, and I have exchanged enough emails with the models for them to know what I want. Only one of the models is a little vague about what he wants, and I'm sure we'll get that sorted before the shoot. Mar 27 06 09:53 am Link Oh he was well aware of the situation before getting in the car. We had discussed it in depth via email and phone prior to the shoot. It was reiterated once again before the shoot started. And as a degree of comfort, thats why we always ask during the shoot. Thats not to say that they have full control - but we like to make them as comf. as possible for future business. I disagree about shooting nude first time around. If it was discussed and acknowledged then there shouldnt be a problem, newbie or not. Again I say dont advertise for something that you arent comfortable with Mar 27 06 10:16 am Link I would not have given him the CD, I would have asked him if he would like for me to destroy the images, and then let him use my phone to call a cab. Mar 27 06 10:18 am Link HEY RED - The photos in your port - are similar to what we were shooting on him Mar 27 06 10:21 am Link HEY RED - The photos in your port - are similar to what we were shooting on him Mar 27 06 10:22 am Link RAZORSHARP STUDIOS wrote: Then you haven't learned from this experience and are doomed to a repeat. Mar 27 06 10:29 am Link phcorcoran wrote: Perhaps that is what this specific project called for? Time is money, why do a little dance with the model when they aren't there to dance? Mar 27 06 10:37 am Link Because thats what the verbal agreement was via phone and email. If there was second thought then there should have some kind of notice PRIOR TO. We knew what were looking to do. The shoot wasnt all nude by the way. Nudes were the last thing in the picture but AGAIN it was discussed and agreed upon. The model wanted to expand his portolio as do we. So if Im going to take the TIME to do a photoshoot and have an agreement broken, I would rather have it broken in the beginning so we know what do expect. I dont think we would be doomed to a REPEAT by the way. We can and have shot without nudes. And realistically we dont expect to have a repeat shoot with some of the models based on somes inconsistency. Those occurances are rare, but this one struck a nerve because when he was asked what he was modeling for - he didnt have a solid answer. Actually he didnt give an answer at all. I mean seroiusly - was he doing it for kicks, was he actually serious about it, was he trying to make money, who knows, it was no business of our as to why. I agree the mistake was not getting the release signed before hand - also a rare occurance because we rarely do TFP or TFCD shoots. Mar 27 06 10:42 am Link Zao Photo wrote: You are welcome to do nudes during first shoots with TFP models if you don't later cry about getting your fingers burned. Mar 27 06 10:53 am Link phcorcoran wrote: That wasnt the reason I posted(CRYING). I ask this to see if its a similar experience amongst other photographers and to get some insight from models - I do believe almost EVERY photographer has had that experience some time or another. Mar 27 06 11:02 am Link RAZORSHARP STUDIOS wrote: But you are clearly advertising for TFP models in your Model Mayhem port, where you have written: "We do some TFP and TCD shoots as well as paid assignments." Mar 27 06 11:04 am Link phcorcoran wrote: BULLSH*T Mar 27 06 11:18 am Link RAZORSHARP STUDIOS wrote: Your post is clearly a rant, not a genuine attempt to avoid similar experiences. If you truly wanted to avoid troubles with future shoots you'd be asking what YOU could have done differently. Instead you are just blaming everything on the model, and insisting that you are innocent of mistakes. Mar 27 06 11:23 am Link phcorcoran wrote: Again this is from another site so he wasnt from here. He is an amatuer model, as he advertised, just as he advertised for artistic nude and nude. IF YOU ARENT COMFORTABLE DOING SOMETHING DONT ADVERTISE FOR IT. NUDE OR OTHERWISE. Mar 27 06 11:23 am Link RAZORSHARP STUDIOS wrote: Stick to your claims that it is all the fault of bad models, then there's nothing you can do about it. You might as well give up photographing models. I suggest you switch to photographing scenic views. Mar 27 06 11:26 am Link phcorcoran wrote: I have never shot with an internet model so my situation might be different, however ALL (except when I'm hired) of my models had never modelled before the shoot with me and all of them had their virgin shoot at full nude. I don't see the reason why I should shoot any of my models clothed just because it's our first shoot together. Mar 27 06 11:33 am Link MarkMarek wrote: Bravo! The guy seems like a troll to me. He's not here to network as much as he is here to get people riled up. Mar 27 06 11:35 am Link Zao Photo wrote: I would send you to hell, cause I always enjoy embarrasing losers, but you're too much of one. So I pass. Mar 27 06 11:40 am Link phcorcoran wrote: That was a nice constructive comment - Thanks Mar 27 06 11:41 am Link MarkMarek wrote: Hmm, really not sure where this came from. Mar 27 06 11:46 am Link |
