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Scr*w TFP
OK, I have found a word that I love. Collaboration. Not TFP, not testing, collaboration between a photographer, a model, an mua, and maybe a stylist (stylists usually prefer money to collaboration.) The word has a very, oh how do they say it in sensitivity training, neutral tone to it. It makes it easy to make clear you are not offering compensation, because in collaboration you work together as equals. Since I give very loose photographic releases, my new one states it must be credited to me if published and cannot net more than 5,000 either way (my sale/models sale) without proper compensation of 35% (for whomever did not do the selling.) So no longer do I trade CD's for work, I collaborate with other artists! And when I inquire as to whether a model would like to work with me, IO ask if she/he would like to collaborate! Huzzah collaboration! (you won't believe this, word's spell check recognized the word huzzah) Jun 30 05 08:01 pm Link I agree ban the use of the letters in conjunction to spell TFP or TFCD. I love your poetry, by the way. Jun 30 05 08:08 pm Link TFP, or not TFP: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous models, Or to take arms against a sea of GWCs, And by opposing end them Jun 30 05 08:15 pm Link Posted by XtremeArtists: Spoken like a true artist! Jun 30 05 09:20 pm Link or at least like someone who has read Shakespeare... Jun 30 05 09:27 pm Link Sounds like STAR is trying to sugarcoat a shitlog. TFP, Collaboration, Test, TFCD, in the end they all mean the same thing. You're either gonna do it or you're not. I'm not a fan of any of that type of work, but I feel like I should give back to the community that has helped me reach the point where I am today. If I have the time and the model shows potential, we can shoot. If she doesn't want to pay me, she'll at least have to pay for studio time, unless she wants to shoot, change clothes, and do makeup in the streets. I'm okay with that as well. Holla Jun 30 05 09:41 pm Link Posted by Star: Plus, "collaborate with other artists" is also VERY accurate in conjuring the image of a bunch of piss-poor hippies with no money panhandling on Venice Beach. Which is exactly where my "photography" will lead me if I do TFP for too long. Jun 30 05 10:01 pm Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: No, for those of us who contact models, and vice versa, what I am saying is to ask if someone would like to collaborate with you, rather than shoot with you (which is a badly defined open ended question.) Over and over people in these forums complain about communication, I was just sharing my new communication tool. Jun 30 05 10:09 pm Link Posted by Lapis: You're trying to get me to hijack Star's thread, aren't you? Jun 30 05 10:25 pm Link Posted by Lapis: I think Star would appreciate the art work and poetry. Jun 30 05 10:34 pm Link Posted by Star: Posted by EMG STUDIOS: No, for those of us who contact models, and vice versa, what I am saying is to ask if someone would like to collaborate with you, rather than shoot with you (which is a badly defined open ended question.) Over and over people in these forums complain about communication, I was just sharing my new communication tool. Of course, some didn't get it. Lol. Jun 30 05 10:38 pm Link you treacherous, lecherous, GWC! Jun 30 05 10:43 pm Link Posted by Star: I think Ear Rats sounds creepier Jun 30 05 11:26 pm Link It's all semantics. When someone contacts me to "collaborate," I'm annoyed that they chose to mince words. They want me to work with them for prints. They rarely really want a full collaborator. Jun 30 05 11:58 pm Link Posted by theda: I did, well at least with paying the check for the margaritas. Jul 01 05 12:03 am Link Posted by theda: I do, but most I contact I contact cause they have something special. Maybe its cause I am a wuss, but I don't know. I'm not God playing with live dolls... Jul 01 05 12:05 am Link Posted by theda: I'll be your huckleberry. Jul 01 05 12:07 am Link Posted by theda: Not me. If I had a dime for every model who said they could fully collaborate in the design and composition of the shot from the camera perspective...well, I'd have a dime, but I'd be one happy mf to be able to say we really did collaborate and show off the images. Jul 01 05 12:08 am Link Posted by Star: Oh great. Now what? Jul 01 05 12:09 am Link Posted by theda: I don't mince words. Jul 01 05 12:10 am Link Posted by Eric Muss-Barnes: Totally. Jul 01 05 12:12 am Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: Well actually, no, they don't mean the same thing. ...Well maybe TFP & TFCD mean the same... ...and collaboration is a pretty lose and general term (not necessarily bad really). Jul 01 05 12:15 am Link Posted by Joe K. Perez: Posted by Star: Oh great. Now what? I was misquoting Shakespeare, his greatest insults... Jul 01 05 01:19 am Link Poetry sucks ass. so much depends on a red wheel barrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens. See? Wasn't that a waste of time? And what's with all the stupid breaking up of words...? God. What a waste. Jul 01 05 01:23 am Link Posted by BlacklistVisual: You are very angry to be stuck in Utah, aren't you... Jul 01 05 01:39 am Link Gotta Love That!! Posted by Chris Ambler: Jul 01 05 01:48 am Link "Collaboration" is a word I'll only use with models who I believe will add something extra to an idea or shoot, usually more experienced models or those whom I've shot before that have definite ideas inside them. Using the term with inexperienced models might imply something else in their young minds, or they may not grasp the implications that come with true collaboration. If you are indeed an artist and the model is as well, then the term should be used liberally, to attract a certain level of talent. TFP TFCD are widely-used terms, and not likely to be replaced in the big picture. Maybe we should also redefine "model" and "photographer" to separate other classes of collaborators. Jul 01 05 09:39 am Link Posted by Star: I am lecherous but not treacherous! Get it straight! Jul 01 05 09:42 am Link Posted by GWC: Posted by Star: I am lecherous but not treacherous! Get it straight! I know really, the nerve of some people. Jul 01 05 10:21 am Link Posted by theda: And this is true....most of the time. Most of the images I have done with my main photog....I can come up with the props, the idea, and the mood, the makeup and hair I do myself...but I trust him to get the lighting right and the composition down for the shot. This is a true collaboration where I can get the idea out of my mind and in 2-D form. Yes, I need him very much...but he needs me just as much... Jul 01 05 11:33 am Link Posted by ErinTheArtist: I'm hoping the movie comes out soon... Jul 01 05 11:38 am Link Posted by theda: Very true. Rarely do I work with the model on an idea for the shoot (actually never). I will collaborate with the model to get the posing right. Jul 01 05 11:44 am Link This is one of the strangest things I have ever read. It started off normal enough and just snowballed. Jul 01 05 11:46 am Link I agree! LOL But it sure is fun to read!  Jul 01 05 11:49 am Link Posted by Joseph R. Davis: You haven't spent much time in the forums here, have you? Jul 01 05 12:09 pm Link Posted by Star: My position exactly. In terms of shooting models in studios with total control lighting, I had nothing to show. Had to start somewhere. But since I had a lot of stuff on a few travel stock sites and general stock sites, there was always a shot that I could make a bit of money if we all thought very commercially, and tried to create stuff that we knew was being looked for and not found. Because I'm as a photographer also much more used to documenting, I needed to have models who could improv off of what direction I could give. Jul 01 05 12:19 pm Link Posted by theda: I feel the same way about language in general. I remember when it was OK to refer to someone as "retarded". The latest repleacement term I've heard is "person with mental retardation". Nine syllables up from three, but we call it "progress". BS. Jul 01 05 12:23 pm Link Posted by LarryB: Posted by theda: I feel the same way about language in general. I remember when it was OK to refer to someone as "retarded". The latest repleacement term I've heard is "person with mental retardation". Nine syllables up from three, but we call it "progress". BS. I just call them neoconservatives. Jul 01 05 12:45 pm Link On my shoots, so much depends on the MUA working with the model. Sometimes it doesn't work, and those shots don't get put up, or I photoshop the hell out of them to make lipstick colors look right and what not. While I have provided props and wardrobe, most models bring a lot of their own stuff. If I take that stuff and place it in new ways... Maybe my shoots aren't sufficiently set up. Usually my concept will be something like, I want kind of a 1930's clockwork orange thing, can we pincurl her hair and give her an extra eye lash on the bottom. That doesn't seem too helpful to me, but sometimes the makeup artist just gets what I'm asking and the model finds a way to really play into it. I approach models for one of two reasons, 1. the work in their port shows not only a beautiful or unusual model but a range of emotion that I am trying to fill into my portfolio. I want models who can give me something with their eyes or (btw, I'm in the hallway of my loft complex and someone has their TV turned on very loud so all I can hear is this woman screaming no, no, no, as I describe what I do) 2. they might have almost no work in their port, but their face just wants me to photograph it I don't know if I completely agree with this, but an art photographer, once told me that overthinking your concept is not the way to create art. The models and mua we work with have a great contribution to the work. That is why the really good ones have even photographers who say they only work for money agree to TFCD with them. We might create a concept, gothic sleeping beauty with her lesbian prince anyone, lighting, and the eventual image; but sometimes the smallest change in an eyelash, the pose you didn't think of, a qusetion that opens new possibilities. This argument over the amount of credit a model has in the finished art piece has been going on for centuries. There are artists who say they could not create without their muses, and other who call them nothing more than manequins. Also, I like collaboration cause it seems tacky to say, hey saw your port want to tfcd some time? I leave you with a quote fromthe greatest of writing achievments Caroline in the City, "After she left, I couldn't paint anymore." Richard "Oh, she broke you heart?" Caroline "No she broke my brushes, of COURSE she broke my heart." Richard Jul 01 05 02:01 pm Link I guess it's safe to say I don't collaborate because I'm not an artist. I'm a photographer and I'm concerned; maybe more than many of the models I shot with, to get a usable image. I stopped planning shoots ahead of time a long time ago. Model:I have a great a idea! Me:Great we'll shoot it afterwards. Unless of course they are paying the top dollar. STAR or Star, great you have a unique government name. It wasn't a play on words, it was me addressing you in a step up to the microphone kind of way. You guys can continue to collaborate. I'll continue to shoot and create pretty decent images. I almost feel like the model can be asleep during the shoot and I'll still get something hot. I feel like I've done that for the majority of time I've been shooting. I'm not serious enough to be collaborating. If we get the shot, we get it, if we don't - that's fine too. Holla Jul 01 05 06:32 pm Link |
