Claire Elizabeth wrote:
I agree but in my case it doesnt take much to get my clothes off!

So are you agreeing with the idea that a photographer who is helping a new model to develop should try and coax her to pose for nudes?

SecondFocus wrote:
I really think that is just totally stupid.

That says it all!  Until we shed those kinds of attitudes, the net will be the never-neverland of the modeling world.

CristinaLex wrote:
why not let her get to that point when SHE/HE is ready......

No model should ever feel like she MUST get to that point.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

No model should ever feel like she MUST get to that point.

meaning like when she feels comfortable with herself and wants to try a new field of images....thats hwat i mean...she shouldnt do it because she has to or feels pressuered by the modeling world a photographer telling her hopeless lies of getting naked to get further....but only if she feels like expanding her portfolio and willing and wanting to do new things...

phcorcoran wrote:
A wise editor once told me that a good photographer should be able to talk women into taking off their clothes (it was an all-male news staff).  And I have worked with photographers who seemed to sincerely believe that photographers should try to talk new models into posing nude, "to help them develop as models."

I agree with the editor (who simply meant that photographers have to be good at talking people into letting the photographer take the pictures that he or she wants), but I disagree with the photographers about "helping models develop" by coaxing nudity from them. 

Whadda all think?

I think that editor is from the era when men stupidly thought that talking or tricking women into taking their clothes off, was some sort of proof of "manhood" or that "Don Juan" nonsense. That was probably some garbage fed to the new photographers on the staff, in an effort to communicate to them that they must do every and anything to get the shot.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
I agree but in my case it doesnt take much to get my clothes off!

Oh really....Doing anything next Friday night!

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
I agree but in my case it doesnt take much to get my clothes off!

*raises eyebrow* How much is a flight to Delaware?

CristinaLex wrote:
why not let her get to that point when SHE/HE is ready......

If a photographer talks to her about it and what he says or how he says it gets her to do it VOLUNTARILY,,,,does that not mean she is ready?Probably ready sooner than she thought she would be, but still ready.Some models are ready but never do it because" he didnt ask me to so I didnt and I dont want to direct the shoot and tell him what to shoot of me"

phcorcoran wrote:
So are you agreeing with the idea that a photographer who is helping a new model to develop should try and coax her to pose for nudes?

If the model has a problem with her body already, its only going to make her worse being talked into doing a nude with someone shes unfamiliar with. If she wants to do a nude, let her be the one who comes out and says it. Support the model, dont coherse them.

Tony Culture Photoz wrote:
I think that editor is from the era when men stupidly thought that talking or tricking women into taking their clothes off, was some sort of proof of "manhood"

No, no!!  That editor was speaking figuratively, not literally, and after many years of photography I can say that the most necessary skill of any photographer is the skill of pursading people to let you take pictures after they've already said "no." 

From news photography to forensic photography to document photography to any kind of photography, whenever you take out a camera you must always be prepared to deal with the enviable person of presumed authority who shows up and says, "You can't take pictures here."  Read one of the Model Mayhem threads on "Sluggos" and you'll see that it happens frequently even in a photographer's own studio.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

If a photographer talks to her about it and what he says or how he says it gets her to do it VOLUNTARILY,,,,does that not mean she is ready?Probably ready sooner than she thought she would be, but still ready.Some models are ready but never do it because" he didnt ask me to so I didnt and I dont want to direct the shoot and tell him what to shoot of me"

but if you think about it he is asking or trying to suggest she try it if he does ask in a appropriate way...just because she agrees DOES NOT MEAN she is ready....she could also be doing it to not let the photographer down..especially if she is new in the game and think that he is the director of EVERYTHING...when it is a team effort....

phcorcoran wrote:

No, no!!  That editor was speaking figuratively, not literally, and after many years of photography I can say that the most necessary skill of any photographer is the skill of pursading people to let you take pictures after they've already said "no." 

From news photography to forensic photography to document photography to any kind of photography, whenever you take out a camera you must always be prepared to deal with the enviable person of presumed authority who shows up and says, "You can't take pictures here."  Read one of the Model Mayhem threads on "Sluggos" and you'll see that it happens frequently even in a photographer's own studio.

this PHOTOGRAHPER...has to understand that this is a MODEL but still her body...unless the model is someone who is open and or has experience in modeling than doing nude would be fine to talk her into...but some photographers....like the ones he is giving a suggestion to..maybe new and they might be dealing with new models who dont much....you cant make someone get naked if they dont want to...if he/she says no...then leave it at no....and maybe next time if they wanna shoot or the third time might make them more comfortable to do so...

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Probably ready sooner than she thought she would be, but still ready.

Maybe.  And yet I read posts where models say they've been in uncomfortable situations with photographers and simply complied because they didn't know what else to do.

I still remember the first nude I ever photographed.  Throughout the shoot she was a stiff as you might expect if I had been nude too.  I kept asking her, "Are you comfortable?" and she kept answering, "Yes, I'm fine."  Later when I sent her an email saying that her pictures were ready and inviting her to pose for me again, she responded with, "Frankly I was very uncomfortable with you." 

That experience taught me to judge models' comfort by how they appear, not by what they say.  But with an experienced model, or simply one who is well self-composed, you can't guess their discomfort even by their appearance.

CristinaLex wrote:
this PHOTOGRAHPER...has to understand that this is a MODEL but still her body...unless the model is someone who is open and or has experience in modeling than doing nude would be fine to talk her into...but some photographers....like the ones he is giving a suggestion to..maybe new and they might be dealing with new models who dont much....you cant make someone get naked if they dont want to...if he/she says no...then leave it at no....and maybe next time if they wanna shoot or the third time might make them more comfortable to do so...

So in other words "No means no...", except of course when it means yes...or maybe...or ask me again because I have to say no the first time and want to be talked into it...

Come on people, anyone is allowed to present their question, and while still remaining in polite society they are even allowed to re-ask with a "You sure?"

This coming unglued with the "IT'S MY BODY, IT'S MY BODY, EEEEEEEEEYYYYYYAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!...PERVERT!...CREEP!..I'M INCAPABLE OF RESPONDING IN A REASONABLE FASHION TO A SIMPLE QUESTION BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES!!!!x#x#!#x#!"

Ok...go take a year off, get over yourself, and see a therapist.

God forbid someone asks you if you're sure you don't want to go bowling..."OH MY GOD I TOLD YOU I DON"T LIKE THE  BIG BALLS EEEEEEEEEYYYYYYAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!"

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
I agree but in my case it doesnt take much to get my clothes off!

...and you are just to damn far away.

Damn.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
I agree but in my case it doesnt take much to get my clothes off!

Yeah, that inbox is filling up....

CristinaLex wrote:

but if you think about it he is asking or trying to suggest she try it if he does ask in a appropriate way...just because she agrees DOES NOT MEAN she is ready....she could also be doing it to not let the photographer down..especially if she is new in the game and think that he is the director of EVERYTHING...when it is a team effort....

in my opinion, people do not voluntarily do things they do not feel they are ready to do. If I ask someone to do something and they do it, its on them.

Tony Culture Photoz wrote:
She is frantic about pictures she posed for, which includes breast cleavage under a sheer material. I haven't even used her picture(s). She signed a release and all. But I would release her from that release and delete the pics, if she keeps on about what her family, etc might say. People jump into this modelling thing like it's a joke or game.

I have another thread going on that subject.  But I will reply at least to say that some while ago I posted on my website: models should please check their attire in a mirror beforehand to make sure they will be comfortable wearing it in photographs.

phcorcoran wrote:
A wise editor once told me that a good photographer should be able to talk women into taking off their clothes (it was an all-male news staff).

I completely agree.  I was a photojournalist for 21 years.  There have been times that I've shown up for assignments and the reporter failed to communicate ANYTHING to the mother of the dead child, other than, "OK, we're gonna send a photographer by to get a picture of you."  The grieving parents expected a mug shot and everyone else at the newspaper expect a Page 1 image that can lead the next day's edition.

As a photojournalist, you need amazing people skills and you also need to posess the ability to think on your feet.  Otherwise you will have an unfulfilling career as a person who can only get mug shots of the dead girls' parents.

I realize using the analagy of photographing the parents of dead children is far from talking a woman out of her clothes.  The reality, however, is that if you've been a photojournalist for very long, you've probably been knocking on the doors of more victims than overdressed women.  In either case however, your communication skills are going to help you realize your goal.

Tony

phcorcoran wrote:

I have another thread going on that subject.  But I will reply at least to say that some while ago posted on my website: models should please check their attire in a mirror beforehand to make sure they will be comfortable wearing it in photographs.

The thing is, there is a BIG ass mirror on the wall behind me. In fact, it is the "wall' behind me, when shooting.

What's the link to that thread ?

Tony Culture Photoz wrote:
What's the link to that thread ?

The thread is about models who want their pictures back:

https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=37169

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
in my opinion, people do not voluntarily do things they do not feel they are ready to do. If I ask someone to do something and they do it, its on them.

They might just do it to not let you down. If they are new they might feel that is what they have to do because you are proposing it. Just when you ask for a llama to do a certain pose she might not feel comfortable but she does it anyway because she feels you are the one directing her in the right direction. just an example.