Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life. A life, a life ... what is that?
At least the models haven't started complaining that the photographers won't take their clothes off.
Oh wait a minute, we had a few shooters who did, and guess what? The models complained!
Good post Don!
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Those who do not complain are never pitied.
- Jane Austen
To hear complaints with patience, even when complaints are vain, is one of the duties of friendship.
- Â Dr. Samuel Johnson
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
I respect my models *far* too much for me to take off my clothes. That would be just wrong.... ewwww...
Actually, Angel started a very nice thread about photographers, and there have been similar threads for models and makeup artists. I think it's just because the forums allow us to rant once in a while, and that's really all it is. But then the rant gets blown out of proportion. I just quit reading threads when they become too negative.
-P-
Photographer
R. Olson (RO)
Posts: 971
Seattle, Washington, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don Where's the requisition forms for getting a life? That under info section?  But you make a great point. Sadly it will fall on deaf ears.
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22234
Stamford, Connecticut, US
I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in this site. I was drawn here mostly because I saw a very active forum community. I was hoping that I would be able to have creative and technical discussions regarding fashion and glamour photography with like minded shooters. There are other boards that have some great technical discussions, but the posts are very infrequent. I enjoy discussing how to take better images. Most of the discussions here are, well, pretty lame. I stick around out of some sick sense of seeing what will be posted next, but I don't know for how much longer. If anyone knows of any more image-centric/photographer-centric type boards where discussions of this nature are fairly active. Please let me know where to go....
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Paramour Productions wrote:
If anyone knows of any more image-centric/photographer-centric type boards where discussions of this nature are fairly active. You could always make this INTO one of those types of forum...the Photographer's section usually has such posts every once in a while, along with great discussions about the technical side.
Try posting new topics once every week or so on something that is interesting to you...it might encourage others to do the same.
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
Well said James -
I see some negative postings so I tend to stay away from them and focus on the positive threads. As with this topic, is there a way to alleviate the problem, or are we all doomed?
Iâm a believer in the idea that you canât change another persons mind, but you can give them something to think about.
We all have heard it takes two to argue, so if you donât feed into the negative postings, they only have themselves to talk to.
There are good posts as well and I like to see things on an upbeat side when I can.
On a positive note, Iâve never been stood up by a mode, Iâve had a few late, but with good cause, Iâve never asked a model to leave for any reason, I welcome any and all escorts, I donât turn down a model due to age or experience level nor do I cancel a model that forgets to call and confirm an appointment.
Being flexible is a very good thing indeed.
Thank you Don for reminding us this is supposed to be fun, and get the life we all deserve. Free of worries and hassles.
Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
Does my own complaining about "bitter" people make me one of them?
I hate recursive questions.
-D
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
Does my own complaining about "bitter" people make me one of them?
I hate recursive questions.
-D I would say no Don. You post way more positive threads and replies to the threads then negative. You know how to keep it real...
Photographer
Mgaphoto
Posts: 4982
San Diego, California, US
Paramour Productions wrote:
I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in this site. I was drawn here mostly because I saw a very active forum community. I was hoping that I would be able to have creative and technical discussions regarding fashion and glamour photography with like minded shooters. There are other boards that have some great technical discussions, but the posts are very infrequent. I enjoy discussing how to take better images. Most of the discussions here are, well, pretty lame. I stick around out of some sick sense of seeing what will be posted next, but I don't know for how much longer. If anyone knows of any more image-centric/photographer-centric type boards where discussions of this nature are fairly active. Please let me know where to go.... I completely agree...Look at this lame topic and it gives you an idea of what you can expect 
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34382
New York, New York, US
James Jackson wrote:
You could always make this INTO one of those types of forum...the Photographer's section usually has such posts every once in a while, along with great discussions about the technical side.
Try posting new topics once every week or so on something that is interesting to you...it might encourage others to do the same. B I N G O
Bingo.
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22234
Stamford, Connecticut, US
James Jackson wrote:
You could always make this INTO one of those types of forum...the Photographer's section usually has such posts every once in a while, along with great discussions about the technical side.
Try posting new topics once every week or so on something that is interesting to you...it might encourage others to do the same. I have been trying to be a productive member of the community, especially in the photographer's section, and will continue to do so. Also, I'm a mod on a filmmaker's board and I know that boards sometimes have weird cycles where it seems sometimes that for a month or two everything seems to go a little haywire, that's another reason why I'm giving this site time, I figure eventually all the weird threads will go away. Unless it's normal to have endless threads about nudity/porn, who pays who, why no one pays anyone, whos expenses are greater....??
We'll see.
Model
Jennyblair
Posts: 102
York, Pennsylvania, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don a photographer complaining about... other photographers?!?!
haha jk
all i have to say is, AMEN! Positive comments are nice to see once in a while
Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
Paramour Productions wrote:
I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in this site. I was drawn here mostly because I saw a very active forum community. I was hoping that I would be able to have creative and technical discussions regarding fashion and glamour photography with like minded shooters. There are other boards that have some great technical discussions, but the posts are very infrequent. I enjoy discussing how to take better images. Most of the discussions here are, well, pretty lame. I stick around out of some sick sense of seeing what will be posted next, but I don't know for how much longer. If anyone knows of any more image-centric/photographer-centric type boards where discussions of this nature are fairly active. Please let me know where to go.... That's a huge problem. Technical boards do exist, but they are slow and you end up with the same ten experts lecturing everyone else. Anyone posting simple questions will usually get bashed unmercifully as well.
Dedicated boards like the Fashion Only Forum are excellent and attract the best photographers on the web, but unless you can stand serious criticism you won't like it. And models have to be 5'9" to even post there.
The choices come down to allowing the kind of free play there is here and having huge numbers and a dynamic site or having small numbers of very narrowly focused people at a slow place. I do like it here and try to contribute, either technically or humorously, when I can. But it does piss me off or let me down sometimes. I think that's the price of having the dynamism it does and letting everyone who wants to be here.
-Don
Photographer
R. Olson (RO)
Posts: 971
Seattle, Washington, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
That's a huge problem. Technical boards do exist, but they are slow and you end up with the same ten experts lecturing everyone else. Anyone posting simple questions will usually get bashed unmercifully as well.
Dedicated boards like the Fashion Only Forum are excellent and attract the best photographers on the web, but unless you can stand serious criticism you won't like it. And models have to be 5'9" to even post there.
The choices come down to allowing the kind of free play there is here and having huge numbers and a dynamic site or having small numbers of very narrowly focused people at a slow place. I do like it here and try to contribute, either technically or humorously, when I can. But it does piss me off or let me down sometimes. I think that's the price of having the dynamism it does and letting everyone who wants to be here.
-Don Don, if anything you need to be a moderator. You always bring up some excellent points and options for follow through. I do the same going with the humor first before the professional comments (and I dont even consider myself a professional photographer...my ego isnt big enough yet hehe).
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about? Thank you for verbalizing this. I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this way...
Photographer
Vintagevista
Posts: 11804
Sun City, California, US
The vast bulk of the non-bitter types may just be too happy planning shoots - shooting attractive photographs of interesting people and editing the same, for the public's viewing pleasure.
They are too busy to be bitter - or to post that much - cause they have 7 emails to still respond to this evening.
VintageV
Photographer
phcorcoran
Posts: 648
Lawrence, Indiana, US
One day I was walking along a street and someone opened a second-story window and yelled out, "Hey, it's that jerk phcorcoran!" They used my full name, but I don't post that because I don't want it Googled. Naturally I was puzzled, and not happy to be called a jerk without knowing why, but I at least went home with the satisfaction that I am someone recognized by name in my own hometown.
Photographer
R. Olson (RO)
Posts: 971
Seattle, Washington, US
phcorcoran wrote:
One day I was walking along a street and someone opened a second-story window and yelled out, "Hey, it's that jerk phcorcoran!" They used my full name, but I don't post that because I don't want it Googled. Naturally I was puzzled, and not happy to be called a jerk without knowing why, but I at least went home with the satisfaction that I am someone recognized by name in my own hometown. Finding a positive out of a negative. Excellent!
Model
Stacy
Posts: 2505
Englewood, Florida, US
Photographer
Craig Thomson
Posts: 13462
Tacoma, Washington, US
Vintagevista wrote:
The vast bulk of the non-bitter types may just be too happy planning shoots - shooting attractive photographs of interesting people and editing the same, for the public's viewing pleasure.
They are too busy to be bitter - or to post that much - cause they have 7 emails to still respond to this evening.
VintageV Agreed. I've shot with 11 models last week and one so far this week and have a new model this Thursday evening followed by several more later in that night, then 6 models (should be more soon) this Saturday evening.
A busy photography is a happy photographer.
Photographer
William Coleman
Posts: 2371
New York, New York, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don Now, see here! We don't need any damn reasonable, encouraging, thoughtful threads on MM. That's not what we're here for. If you can't rant, rage, bitch, complain and hide behind the Internet's anonymity to attack others, maybe you're just not our kind of people!
Photographer
Done and Gone
Posts: 7650
Chiredzi, Masvingo, Zimbabwe
I am bitterly opposed to the bitterness! Kill them with silliness!!!!
Digital Artist
Koray
Posts: 6720
Ankara, Ankara, Turkey
before I joined here I was blind. now I'm blinder than ever.
but my vision had improved...in my head.
now I know why I have a friggin camera, now I know why I use PS...not because anybody enlightened me...but you all improved me with or without knowing.
I have a cyber place I call my home. but then I'm here.
no GWC's (like me), no PS'ers (like me), no photgs (unlike me), no models (hi..wanna shoot?) can get on my way (other than the site leaders).
Keep it up Mr. D :cheers:
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
Michael Longeneker wrote:
I am bitterly opposed to the bitterness! Kill them with silliness!!!! too much Monty Python!
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
R. Olson (RO) wrote:
Don, if anything you need to be a moderator. I certainly wouldn't wish that on him. I like him.
It might turn him into a bitter, bitter person.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don God Bless You!
Photographer
FabioTovar
Posts: 583
Culver City, California, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don UHM.,,,,,,.... DOESN'T THIS POST MAKE YOU A PHOTOGRAPHER COMPLAINING ABOUT OTHER PHOTOGRAPHERS?
kettle, meet tea pot.. tea pot, meet kettle.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
Nomenclature.
With no barrier to entry, anyone and everyone can classify themselves as a model or photographer. Complaints and bitterness result when being called on the carpet instead of accepting an actual rightful/wrongful place amongst working peers.
If this community willingly accepts those at 5'1 with portfolios stating, "I am a model looking for paid assignments only," without retribution statements to the effect of, "sorry, you aren't even close to model material, but you can create some pretty pictures via TFP," then the complaint and bitterness hits will just keep on comin'.
It's a hobby world living in virtual reality where nobody expects to be hurt. When hurt happens, reality takes the blame.
Photographer
Old Ska Punk
Posts: 2677
Crivitz, Wisconsin, US
Bitter, bitter people?
Don't know. Never met one.
All the people I licked tasted salty.
Photographer
Azgoth Photography
Posts: 42
Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
UnoMundo Photography wrote:
too much Monty Python! No such thing as too much Monty Python!
Photographer
Marek Mezyk
Posts: 162
Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, US
Pat Thielen wrote:
I respect my models *far* too much for me to take off my clothes. That would be just wrong.... ewwww...
Actually, Angel started a very nice thread about photographers, and there have been similar threads for models and makeup artists. I think it's just because the forums allow us to rant once in a while, and that's really all it is. But then the rant gets blown out of proportion. I just quit reading threads when they become too negative.
-P- Why would sooting a model nude be disrespectful??? Its only disrespectful if its exploited somehow... or damn cheap T&A... but there are so many nude and semi nude images which actauly enchance the model much more then some cheap attempt at forcing a poorly 'Provocative' image by an inexpreinced photographer.
-Marek
Photographer
Marek Mezyk
Posts: 162
Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, US
Marek Mezyk wrote:
Why would sooting a model nude be disrespectful??? Its only disrespectful if its exploited somehow... or damn cheap T&A... but there are so many nude and semi nude images which actauly enchance the model much more then some cheap attempt at forcing a poorly 'Provocative' image by an inexpreinced photographer.
-Marek Uuhhhh... I didn't know I had it in me... this bitternes....LOL... thanks Don.. I have vented! LOL..
-Marek
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Marek Mezyk wrote:
Why would sooting a model nude be disrespectful??? Its only disrespectful if its exploited somehow... or damn cheap T&A... but there are so many nude and semi nude images which actauly enchance the model much more then some cheap attempt at forcing a poorly 'Provocative' image by an inexpreinced photographer.
-Marek
You read that a little wrong. He said:
"I respect my models *far* too much for me to take off my clothes. That would be just wrong.... ewwww..."
me, as in he, ?(him, proper grammar?), the photographer. 
Photographer
Trunkmonkey
Posts: 9245
Arlington, Texas, US
Paramour Productions wrote:
I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in this site. I was drawn here mostly because I saw a very active forum community. I was hoping that I would be able to have creative and technical discussions regarding fashion and glamour photography with like minded shooters. There are other boards that have some great technical discussions, but the posts are very infrequent. I enjoy discussing how to take better images. Most of the discussions here are, well, pretty lame. I stick around out of some sick sense of seeing what will be posted next, but I don't know for how much longer. If anyone knows of any more image-centric/photographer-centric type boards where discussions of this nature are fairly active. Please let me know where to go.... Can I make a suggestion? Your portfolio is really incredible and there are a lot of GWC's and people like me who are stumbling through watching the pretty lights wondering 'how can I do that'? who would love to learn from your experience. The best way to make a forum active is for people who know what they're talking about post a thread regularly. I'm not saying give away all of your 'secrets' or 'techniques' but maybe a review of a camera that you tried and didn't like so dumbasses like me won't go buy that camera or a lens that you did or a lighting technique you tried on a lark and were pleasantly suprised with the results?
Seriously I read the forums and it seems that everybody has this 'little bit of edge' that they really don't want to share.
Does that make sense?
Photographer
Marek Mezyk
Posts: 162
Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, US
Angel Tara wrote:
You read that a little wrong. He said:
"I respect my models *far* too much for me to take off my clothes. That would be just wrong.... ewwww..."
me, as in he, the photographer. I see... lol.. but I needed an excuse to vent you know.... what post would be without a little bitter attack? lol.. i am kidding of course... but no mean btterens intended of course
I am just venting on the fact of what Don brings up. There is a lot of complaining .. and sob stories how it went wrong.... its life.... but there are some here who are cheerful enough to wanna go back out and do it again... even if a bad flop happens... twice in a row.... I am here [on MM] becuase I love what I do.
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
Paramour Productions wrote:
I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in this site. I was drawn here mostly because I saw a very active forum community. I was hoping that I would be able to have creative and technical discussions regarding fashion and glamour photography with like minded shooters. There are other boards that have some great technical discussions, but the posts are very infrequent. I enjoy discussing how to take better images. Most of the discussions here are, well, pretty lame. I stick around out of some sick sense of seeing what will be posted next, but I don't know for how much longer. If anyone knows of any more image-centric/photographer-centric type boards where discussions of this nature are fairly active. Please let me know where to go.... Start your own posts!
Photographer
ClassicHorror
Posts: 4144
Spartanburg, South Carolina, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
It seems that most posts these days are about how awful everyone else is. They tend to group whole categories together when complaining. Most of these whines are by photographers as well, embarassing as that is.
Photographers complaining that models won't take their clothes off. Or about other photographers whose models do take their clothes off. Models who don't emote, or don't show up on time, or don't show up at all. Or have zits.
Photographers complaining about the lack of professionalism of other photographers - if you can't see the hilarity of this position, you need a sense of humor injection fast. Photographers complaining about unfair competition - isn't that what capitalism is all about?
C'mon folks, lighten up a little and have some fun. Or go get a life.
-Don 'Life is too important to be taken seriously" - Oscar Wilde
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Marek Mezyk wrote:
I see... lol.. but I needed an excuse to vent you know.... what post would be without a little bitter attack? lol.. i am kidding of course... but no mean btterens intended of course
I am just venting on the fact of what Don brings up. There is a lot of complaining .. and sob stories how it went wrong.... its life.... but there are some here who are cheerful enough to wanna go back out and do it again... even if a bad flop happens... twice in a row.... I am here [on MM] becuase I love what I do. it's all good. I just didn't want you to think he was bashing those who shoot nude.
I have been on MM almost a year and initially was an active participant in the forums. I walked away for quite a few months, but eventually came back.
My initial impression of the MM forums was nothing like it is today. I feel that this change has come in the past few months, but I am scared to speculate on that since I did walk away, so maybe I just don't know the real deal. In any event, I see a change in dynamics and in my opinion, it has not been pretty. Going back to the original post, I too, have noticed the bitterness. Thus, as corny as it sounds, I have recently made it a goal of mine to try to help maintain the integrity of MM's forums and be a constructive citizen..
errrr, we will see how well that goes, LOL
and now I'm ultra corny...but oh well
|
But you make a great point. Sadly it will fall on deaf ears.
