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Model Compensation
I'm sure this has been discusse before, but I haven't read thoughts on it recently and I wanted to see what the models and photographers here on MM thought. Now I have not done a lot of model/glamour/art photographer, but I'm am aimming to do more in the future. I've paid models, and have been paid by models, and I've done and will do TFP/CD. But I see models wanting to be paid and to recieve copies of all the images, which I guess would be okay, but their requested rate is about average from what I see. How do other photographers feel about this? Models? When I did TFP several years age, it really cost me time and dollars, lots of time if I was doing my own BW. Now I'm digital, and the dollars have gone down but not the time. It may even be more, depending. This seems to me like they are wanting to be paid twice. If they want just lower res proofs maybe,(i'm not sure I want a bunch of proofs running around) but if they want finished images, ie cleaned up enhanced etc... then no, unless the paid rate reflects a discount for my time. I realize I don't have to work with these models, but am wondering if others feel if this is a reasonable request. When I shoot models I already give them a deep discount on my rates, prints and all other services, in an effort to make it more reasonable for them to keep their stuff current, desire for repeat busness. My main photography income is weddings, commerical, and portraits. Mar 17 06 05:12 pm Link If iIpay the model I will give them several images for their promotional use. There's no way their going to get all of them: I payed them, the makeup person, perhaps an assistant, and space rental. If I gave them all the images I'd be shooting for them not for me. Paul Mar 17 06 05:27 pm Link If I get a paid offer I don't expect to get any prints at all or proofs. sometimes I never see the images. When doing tfp though I'm changing what I'll accept for prints I no longer wish to work to a whole cd of un touched imags that I can't use in my book. I'm asking for a set number of retouched full resolution images that I can print out to 8 x 10 for any tfp jobs. I some cases though I have gotten paid (top rates)+ prints+ full resolution images. I felt very lucky with those deals. It really depends on what you decide the model is worth and what your work is worth. I am suprized at what photgraphers think I'm worth over and over again. Iona Lynn Mar 17 06 06:06 pm Link Mar 17 06 06:20 pm Link It really comes down to what your needs are and what boundries you wish to set. I think if you set up a set of "rules" or operating procedures and simply stick to them you will find over time that you are getting what you want. Vance Mar 17 06 06:21 pm Link maybe just pay them and not give them prints but a couple of TFCD images. i like to display my work with photographers as it really adds to my portfolio. that way you both are happy! some models are willing to pay for a printed image such as myself, so you can give them that option also. Mar 17 06 06:21 pm Link Merlinpix wrote: Thats pretty much how I feel. If they pay me then we agree for terms they desire. Mar 17 06 06:37 pm Link JaimeLeighTurney wrote: The way that I see it, if I pay for someone's time, I am not obligated to offer any prints or cd's. As a matter of fact, if I give someone a cd with any images, I am, in fact giving them the exact file. Why should I pay twice? Mar 17 06 06:37 pm Link It is typically one or the other. If you pay a model, unless she worked at a very reduced rate, she normally isn't entitled to prints. If she works TFP/TFCD, she is entitled to what you agreed to. That having been said, I rarely do TFP, but when I book a model for a paid shoot, I will give her a few for her promotional use. It is a courtesy though, not a requirement. Mar 17 06 06:38 pm Link Iona Lynn wrote: I think this is best for both the model and photographer. Usefull quality images. I'm really thinking about not letting my proofs out any more. Just giving the model a set number of finished high res images Iona Lynn wrote: Your work is lovely, great figure and shape, very usable. I'm sure the photographer were glad to work with some one with we your common sense approach. Mar 17 06 06:43 pm Link If a model is being paid commercial rates, then their pay is their reward. They have no legit right to expect any images, except perhaps a tear sheet of the finished work. If a model wants images for their portfolio, or a whole CD of images of the entire set, then they should be working TFP or pay the photographer. If I am doing TFP or the model is paying me, then they have some right to exert some control over the images they get. I owe them. If I am paying them, I owe them nothing beyond the pay they agree to. Anything beyond that is simple generosity. It is generally an accepted courtesy to provide a tearsheet or copy of the final product. The model is out of line if they expect anything more. Mar 17 06 06:46 pm Link This is a question that comes up every so often on the forum. It's always negotiable, but depends on who wants the images the most, and what the images are going to be used for. Although there are no set rules, it's really not all that complicated. If the model wants the images for her/his usage while owning the future "copy rights" of the images, then of course the model should be paying the photographer an agreed upon amount. That is commonly done when a model owns a website and needs content for it. If the photographer has a paying client or if the photographer has plans to use the images in a manner that produces income such as on pay sites, or for stock image sales, then the photographer should be paying the model. Then of course there is the vague term "tfp" which can mean many things! Some photographers are generous about what they give the model in trade, but not always. Sometimes a model or photographer will use the images in a manner the other party did not agree to. It could also happen that a photographer or model will use the images for a direct income without telling the other. Percentages can always be negotiated ahead of time if one or the other wants to use images generated from "tfp" for income later on. That is why the photographer and model should have a signed agreement to avoid problems later! Mar 17 06 06:49 pm Link Personally, I always make sure what is expected up front. If the model is paying, than it's a set deal, if it's TFP/CD it's spelled out before the shoot agreed upon ad signed before the shutter drops. If I pay, here again everything is agreed upon beforehand and the models knows up front what to expect. Why take anything to chance, have in agreement first so there's no hard feelings afterwards. Mar 17 06 10:00 pm Link I always pay my models, because I think TFP/TFCD is a raw deal for models. I "process" some of the exposures we make, and I often post some of the resulting images on my web site. The posted images are of modest size & with modest compression, so they probably aren't suitable for 8x10 printing but are more than sufficient for small prints and for posting in on-line portfolios. Since the work is already done by me and since the work benefits me, I have no problem giving models the permission to use the images of her for self-promotion in a non-commercial manner. This gives the model a little "extra" & motivates her to work with me again. It also gives me a little extra exposure, and I'm not losing out since the model's usage is non-commercial. What's wrong with that? Mar 18 06 10:37 am Link |
