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TFP- which happens more?
Two all expenses out of my own pocket studio shoots in the last month. Four models scheduled for each. Record: one no show each shoot. One show up over 3 hours late, each shoot. Most interesting to me is that the lates and no shows are the ones who were professing to be most serious, most focused, and doing the biggest favor by being willing to work TFP/TFCD. One complained mightily about a photographer who cancelled on him two weeks in advance as being highly unprofessional. Then he doesn't show up or call. Both shoots, disks went out within a week with final balanced, cropped, airbrushed, images. Not with my finals (one of the shoots had a series with cross processing, which takes more time; one has a series going into old-style black and white, which takes more time.) Prints, for those who asked for them in addition to the CD, are going out three weeks after. I come from a background (live theater) where no-showing for even an audition that you committed to attend will create a buzz that guarantees you won't easily get work, even if you no-show for a free gig you committed to and had an offer that pays. The word of mouth tom-toms are very strong. Something like that needs to happen here, methinks. There's no real consequence to not showing up, and it forces me (I do a lot of "scenes" so need to have a known ratio of male and female models) to think about asking more models than I need, and then if everyone shows, having to be disrespectful by not using everyone's time well. The no consequence no-shows create problems for the committed. That's wrong. I hate that. Jun 30 05 11:34 am Link OH dear! Such a subject! Rough percentage that don't show for a Trade Time Shoot without so much as a call or a note...about 20 % Those that show up late...late being defined as 15 minutes to 5 hours___about 90% Sometimes a call is involved sometimes not. No matter what, I usually get a cheery "sorry!" and a smile. After all, they're pretty, young and used to getting by with a smile and wink. During the course of the shoot, they then get a dose of "this is a business, treat it as such or you won't get in front of a camera often. No one with professional ethics will work with them if it gets around...and photographers DO talk to each other about a models work ethics. I had a tough time with getting images out to models in the past. What does work for me now is... At the end of the session they get previews of everything we shot in low res jpeg form on a CD. Also on the CD is a scanned copy of the model release...that way they have a copy should they need it for entering a contest etc. They pick from the CD at home as to which they want sized, cropped and color corrected for the web...no more than 20 please the first go-around! I usually get the finished ones e-mailed back to them within a week. A few weeks later they can ask for more. Prints are available at my everyday low prices. They are cautioned that trying to post or work on the low res images will back-fire on them. I explain that everything we collaberate on, reflects back on both of us. Just as they don't want a unflattering image displayed of them, I don't want an image that is not color corrected displaying my capabilities. If I see an image that I shot like that...I quickly do up a proper one and send it to them reminding them of thier promise NOT to post uncorrected images. Why do they get a copy of everything one asks? Because after being in the business long enough I KNOW I don't always know how the model sees themselves or what she/he considers falttering or not. I did not invent cropping and I know that a fresh view of an image can offer an alternative crop than what I thought. Bottom line...I work with the model to get what they want. I offer advice as to crops and coloring ect, but the client gets what they want. After all, isn't that why I'm in a service industry? This process works for me. Some assembly required, batteries not included. Jun 30 05 01:46 pm Link Example... I have shot 5 models in the last week alone. Within that evening after the shoot, I email them at least 2 or 3 edited/ touched-up photos sized for uploading to sites like MM. Depending on my work load, they'll have 10 images within a day. This gets the ball rolling so they have virtually same day feedback and results of the shoot. They can upload images and have a good looking portfolio addition. Withing 2 days or so a web gallery of all raw images is available. Overall within 7-10 days, they will have 15-20 edited and sized images (touched up etc.) Sometimes more than 30-40 edited images if the shoot was a really good one. Plus all raw (unretouched) images... all images sized for print and web. on occassion they'll even get a music slide show of my edited work. To the original questions, I have had many models bag out on me last minute.. they lose I will never shoot with them, if I sense they bagged out and it was not legit. Jun 30 05 03:20 pm Link Posted by Ken Mierzwa: I agree 100 percent. Jun 30 05 03:34 pm Link We are in the digital age and any photographer that can't give the model a cd at the end of the shoot shouldn't be shooting. Models make agreements prior to the shoot. TFP means just that. If a model donates the time they deserve prompt images. Jun 30 05 03:43 pm Link Of course I'm biased since I am a model who has NEVER flaked on a photographer, but in my experience more than half of the photographers I've worked with tfp didn't hold up their end of the deal. I have an image that I've been waiting for since last August that I still haven't gotten and it was supposed to be published in this issue of Stuff magazine, not so much as a response to the e-mails I send. Anyhow, you live and you learn so now I won't do tfp unless I get the cd on the spot or if I know the photographer. If you work a regular job and you don't get paid in the normal 2 weeks, the business can get in HUGE trouble, this is no exception to me. Jun 30 05 03:50 pm Link If I'm carrying the equipment to burn a CD I can do that, but I'd prefer taking 20-30 minutes to go through the photos and scrap those that aren't worth it. I have to say the number of scrapped photos continues to decline with experience. I'm relatively new. I have to admit that I leave my less than perfect photos out. I can't consider myself a professional photographer yet, but I'm willing to go the distance to be there. Yes I've got CDs due to models. Others that got CDs immediately I never hear from again. I'd rather have a good relationship with the model than them groaning about how many photos in the batch didn't make it. As far as model no-shows, last minute cancels, reschedules... that just is devastating. Makes me wonder if doing TFCD is the wrong direction. At least with a financial commitment people respond. I'd prefer taking a deposit and giving it back at the shoot, but many models don't go for that. They'll find someone else before working through a deposit. Jun 30 05 04:03 pm Link Posted by joe duerr: I completely disagree with giving every image, unedited, to the models. I too believe that the biggest difference between a good photog and anyone else is editing. If my name is going to be on the results, editing and post processing is important, there's a reason that we sometimes do multiple takes. I've seen some terrible images on sites like this that I can't believe are as the photographer intended, some of which have the photographer's name attached. That can't be good for anyone. But a lack of prompt images is equally heinous. Jun 30 05 04:03 pm Link Posted by Ed Nazarko: I like this idea, however even if a shoot is technically a good shoot if the chemistry between people doesn't work then it's likely the rating will suffer. This isn't really a bad thing, it would groom people into treating each other with respect for what each is bringing to the table. Posted by Rebecca Alsbury: Thank you for an insight from the model's perspective. You're completely right about insisting that photos are delivered as close to the shoot date as possible. Jul 01 05 03:58 am Link Posted by joe duerr: What if the shoot is on location? What do you suggest? Handing them my flashcard? It's like, "Here's my memory card. Make sure you mail it back to in promptly!" Hell if I'm bringing a laptop or anything of the sort to the beach. I'm the man! The model has to wait patiently like a good girl. Jul 01 05 04:03 am Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: Posted by joe duerr: What if the shoot is on location? What do you suggest? Handing them my flashcard? It's like, "Here's my memory card. Make sure you mail it back to in promptly!" Hell if I'm bringing a laptop or anything of the sort to the beach. I'm the man! The model has to wait patiently like a good girl. Having given up a car, using a bike / bus ... and I still manage to carry a laptop for some shoots. It is rather ridiculous. Ever see a guy riding a bike 20mph down Woodward Ave carrying a camera bag & tripod for fireworks photos - that was me on Wednesday evening. Damn bus night bus schedule in Detroit sucks. I proved to myself I can do the 30 mile ride faster than taking the bus if I've got a 30 minute lead on the bus. Jul 01 05 04:19 am Link I think this thread has gotten well off of the original question. Asking which happens more - no show models or no show photos from the session is like asking "Which came first - the chicken or the egg?" Jul 01 05 04:26 am Link Posted by Fuzzytek Photography: Let's stop right there. You are right! It is rather ridiculous, lol. Jul 01 05 04:48 am Link Posted by CharliesImages: Actually, it's not. Jul 01 05 04:48 am Link |
