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Where is the money
If it is a test, TFP/CD then MM seems to work but if you market towards offering pay services. People become nasty like your saying their current portfolio is terrible and I get comments like I have not uploaded my new stuff just wait. What is that all about like some child on the playground that thinks everything is an insult or something. Or is it all about trade here I never get comments like that from OMP, musecube, model.com, imodel, top professional and on and on. I was shocked the first time i had to go thru an email exchange like that. Have others had problems in this area or is it me? Also people that are looking to make money and I understand there are many here that are happy to shoot TFP forever, but for the rest of us how do you do it? And before I feel the hammer from the MM gods I do market and book paying gigs from those other sites mentioned but why not MM. Is it the chat / myspace design factor that makes MM different? Just a question from a newbie Mar 13 06 01:53 am Link Abode Studio wrote: Great question, hope you get alot response, because I have wondered the same thing. There is alot of trade on this site, I don't however blame the "MM" Gods, reminds me of an old quote; "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it" MM has offered a free service, and the unfornate nature of this is that some persons may see modeling/photography as a hobby. Or they are just getting started and may not want to pay a fee like you have to on other sites while they feel this new venture out. I don't know how new you are but please don't let the feeble minded actions of the ignorant cause you to feel like there aren't people on this site that aren't willing to "pay for services rendered" Mar 13 06 08:48 am Link Hi All, While I am new here and have been an OMP member for several years, I can't answer to the MM question vs. OMP and other sites but I will put in my 2 cents. TFCD is just that, testing for both model and photographer. On the other hand if I am getting paid to shoot, the model as well as the rest of the crew that is also working will get their rate. When I test with models I usually get a limited release vs. a full release that is need for paid work. Another aspect of the limited release is that should a 3rd party client express interest in using a test sample, I factor into the my license fee, a model fee that then is payed to the talent, Does this happen often? No, not for me really but that will also change soon. For the past 8 years i was staff shooter at Kodak and wasn't allowed to do "freelance" projects. Now that I'm no longer under their umbrella, look out! Again, just my perspective. Alan Mar 13 06 09:07 am Link I have been on OMP for over a year and have been on this site for about a week and have received about the same amount of inquiries about my rates on this one as I have on OMP...which is one...the whole world of internet modeling seems to revolve around trade...unless the photographer or GWC is paying to oogle a naked woman. I work freelance, commercial and portrait/wedding work to actually pay the bills and just view this segment of my business as a bonus if I actually get payed. I only do testing when I have something to actually test...whether it be new equipment, new techniques or a new MUA or stylist... I have made great relationships and met a lot of people that have referred a lot of people and have gained exposure through these websites (OMP, OTS, MM, etc) so I just chalk it all up to marketing and let it go at that... Mar 13 06 09:16 am Link DJ Photography wrote: Well said D.J. Mar 13 06 10:21 am Link I have had several people give me referals for paying work from MM. Also by shooting with MM models I am able to keep my images fresh. My website has no images that are over a year and a half old, because I am constantly taking them down to make room for new images. MM has made me a better photographer with access to a greater number of models. Eventually that will translate into money. Just not right now.... ⥠Star Mar 13 06 11:10 am Link Alan Farkas wrote: Alan, Mar 13 06 11:22 am Link The last seven models I did paid jobs with were all cast through Model Mayhem (although I knew two of them from non-MM sources.) I did a shoot with four models yesterday, they all got paid. By the client. I cast 'em from here, the client approved 'em from my recommend list, I booked them, they worked, they got paid. Easy as that. To borrow from another thread, Model Mayhem is like a duck swimming on a calm pond, only the duck is also quacking its head off. Up on top is one activity that everybody can see - which is more or less noisy and pointless. Underneath is another activity, which is going like fury and actually accomplishing something useful. You don't see that part so much in the public parts of the forum, it's just business getting done as it needs to get done. I mean, this isn't ModelWire, but still, trust me. Business gets done. M Mar 13 06 11:29 am Link Abode Studio wrote: Placed a casting call for a model to appear in a lingerie catalog, and got several responces. One sent a follow up email asking about the project. When I reviewed her porfolio I liked her figure, but she didn't have a good clean head shoot in the bunch. So as to not go completely blind into a project with an unknown, I sugested a test TFP to do some simple headshots for my client to evaluate. You would of thought, from her reply, that I asked her to strip naked in Times Square at noon on a weekday to become pregnate with Satin's son. Mar 13 06 11:33 am Link The money is in shooting commercial, product, advertising...unless you're Michael Thompson, Santé D'Orazio, Patrick Demarchelier, Cliff Watts, Ben Watts...I love fashion and glamour, but it's the commercial work I do that really helps. Mar 13 06 11:40 am Link I stopped shooting fashion and glamour bullshit that is only good for selling a $6 magazine and impossible to get into unless you know someone. I got tired of having a nice pretty port for people to comment on while I made nothing and worked a "real" job. I started shooting topless and Playboy styled nude content for paysites and I am now making enough money that I am quitting my "real" job. Its the internet, porn rules. Mar 13 06 11:45 am Link No I totally agree with all the comments regarding networking and marketing on the Internet and looking at dollars from these sites as a bonus. My real question centers on the replies and negative comments like an offer of service has some negative meaning regarding their current work. That is the unique issue I'm discussing regarding MM vs. other sites. I think because MM has this chat and sometime dating theme happening maybe that's what brings out this behavior in people. If an offer for services came in your email, snail mail or telephone do you call the person back like the offer has a personal meaning or insult attached to it? I have sent out hundreds of offers thru online sites and never got back replies like this until I sent 10 via MM and got 2 questionable replies regarding their current portfolios. I too enjoy reading the forums LOL and passing time here but would like to market here as well without having negative email exchanges. Thanks for your helpful comments. Mar 13 06 12:40 pm Link Mar 13 06 02:51 pm Link StMarc wrote: Aye. Mar 13 06 02:56 pm Link Abode Studio wrote: If you are spamming people with direct e-mail inquiries, that is why you are getting such comments. Mar 13 06 03:05 pm Link I don't know I only do paying shoots. Everyone I've gotten from MM seemed to be happy with that arrangement. Paul Mar 13 06 03:33 pm Link I think its horrible that so many people have had bad/unpleasant experiences when they say that they only do paid work... isn't it everyone's right to set whatver standards they want? Some might never get paid the rate they are asking... but it is thier choice to have it. Isn't it? I suppose I have been lucky with the people that have contacted me because only a few people have been rude to me in regards to my having a rate... and to be blunt - well, um.... they weren't very good. (That isn't why I said I didn't do TFP though... It's just that I only super rarely do TFP) Because I *have* done 2 tfp shoots in the last year, but besides that everything has been paid. And I have actually gotten paid shoots on here (fashion) and a few jobs as well... so I have had pretty good experiences... I don't understand peoples need to be rude though. If they don't feel like paying... then umm... don't pay. Shoot someone else. Why waste time writing a nasty note? It seems like some people just get WAY too offended when a model says, "Sorry... I really only do paid work at this time." Do they think that means the model is saying, "I'm better then you." ?? Because it seems like that is how some of them react. I think there are photographers out there, that charge, that models could benefit from working with. The photographs that the photographers gets of the model will most likely help her. But, the same goes for the other way 'round.... There are models that just 'fit' with a photographers style.... and hey, if a photographer likes my look, knows it will work well with a project he/she is doing, etc... why shouldn't I be paid? I know how to model, (funny how some people just... don't?) I show up on time, I am - without a doubt, very professional and I have been doing this for a long time now - he/she *will* get good stuff. He or she is guarenteed (well, nothing is 100%, but damn close lol) that the shoot will turn out better with someone experienced rather then someone just starting out, with a few shoots under her belt. I dunno, to me, that's worth some money. I dunno.... It bothers me that photographers can charge, but a model does and some ppl. can get 'pissy.' Eh, that's life  ~Rachel Mar 13 06 03:37 pm Link Mar 13 06 04:18 pm Link Thanks for your useful feedback, I have deterimed that unless you are a social type MM is not for you. I am not social and email is not my communication of choice. I think I need to continue marketing on sites that are not based on forums and chat. I just can not see spending that sort of time on the internet when I should be in the studio or reading up on some new technic. I will visit from time to time to read the forums and look at the portfolios of the judgemental MM gods that always seem to have the worst images :-), but true entertainers. Abode Studio Mar 13 06 07:27 pm Link DeBoer Photography wrote: RachelCWhittemore wrote: I've seen posts on threads here about photographers, etc getting annoyed with "paid model available" kinds of stuff...is internet modeling unprofessional, or are certain models setting too high a rate and being unqualified? Mar 13 06 07:42 pm Link Being a rather new face .....is there a standard of what is considered reasonable rates......is there somewhere i can find more info on the ins and outs in modeling???Resume Writing Reasonable Rates how to get $$ for services (ie. casting calls) etc etc please respond to my MM mail thanks in advance Mar 16 06 08:47 am Link You get different things from different sites. If you are looking for money, I wouldn't shun any single model site since you never know where your next work could come from. A lot of it has to do with who you know. And the more exposure you get (more websites) the more likely you will find work. So depending on your goals, some sites pay off better than others but there is nothing wrong with having your portfolio on as many sites as possible. I found that when on OMP I got very few offers even for TFP and unless I was willing to pay $300 a year, it was probably going to stay that way. After all, 4 photos doesn't really say a hell of a lot about what I can do. My portfolio is ridiculously diverse and I have problems picking favorites or changing them out every 2 days. Their features were also very limited on how you could contact and search people and how many photos you could post for free. The only people who benefit are the ones who are paying oogles of money. That is perfecly acceptable except for me. I'm 5'3, even with my expansive wardrobe and talent, I'm never going to be a famous model, so why would I want to pay $300 a year? I still have a profile there but no bites. So you can see some websites have different benefits over others for different people. OMP - if you have what it takes, there are a lot of industry people on that website and if you pay, you are more likely to get noticed. I think it's still a great site, just not for me. I've bought a few of their products, the store is great! MM - I like the fact that it is free and I get more options for exposure. (Friending, comments, the front page shout out, 20 photos, forums) To be honest, despite my size, I've received more requests for paying and tfp/tfcd than I ever got on OMP. Wow I'm actually meeting people now. MC - I haven't seen any benefit in that site yet, but I don't frequent it often. For a photographer looking for money, I can see OMP as a benefit if you are willing to pay their fees. There is still nothing wrong with MM - you can meet just as many people here, but you need to exercise your skills in discernment a bit more. Mar 16 06 10:18 am Link I come to MM to socialize, learn a little and to look for talent when I have glamour projects. I don't cast much for commercial talent on the net (it has nothing to do with MM). What I don't do is to come to MM looking for work as a photographer. This is a networking site. While photographers and model often network, do TFP and some photographers do book models for paid shoots, there are no commercial clients here looking to hire photographers. You wouldn't expect there to be. MM is a great place for a lot of reasons, but it is not about paid commercial or editorial bookings for photographers. Good luck though. There are still plenty of ways to break into the business. Mar 16 06 10:24 am Link |
