spyro2122 wrote:
I love dilbert!

Got a camera?

Looknsee Photography wrote:
1)  I see nothing wrong or "funny" about a model choosing to be very selective about the photographers willing to pose on a TFP/TFCD basis. 

2)  I see nothing wrong with models wishing financial compensation for their time posing, regardless of their experience.

I'm one of those photographers who think TFP/TFCD is a raw deal for models -- in fact, I think it's exploitation.  I am also of the opinion that using sarcasm & scorn for models who want/need compensation (more than the TFP/TFCD) is counterproductive.

My bottom line:  if you don't like the deal being offered, either make a counter offer or walk away -- ragging on models in general is unprofessional, immature, and gives us considerate photographers a bad name.

Well put, and I think it is just as bad for a photographer to bash a fellow photographer.

What is the big deal with photogs NOT wanting models to have escorts? Simple tell the escort to sit down , be quiet or leave , it is that simple. What is going on in a photogs head that makes them so hellbent on being Alone with a model? If a photog is hired for any professional shoot , do you really think the hiring agency is going to tolerate you "being alone" with the model ....HELL NO...they would move on to the next photog....shoots are going to be filled with distractions, MUA's, AD reps, Stylists.....be professional and allow the model to do what makes her comfie........

john knight wrote:

Well put, and I think it is just as bad for a photographer to bash a fellow photographer.

What is the big deal with photogs NOT wanting models to have escorts? Simple tell the escort to sit down , be quiet or leave , it is that simple. What is going on in a photogs head that makes them so hellbent on being Alone with a model? If a photog is hired for any professional shoot , do you really think the hiring agency is going to tolerate you "being alone" with the model ....HELL NO...they would move on to the next photog....shoots are going to be filled with distractions, MUA's, AD reps, Stylists.....be professional and allow the model to do what makes her comfie........

Why do I feel compelled to beat this dead and rotting horse?

Agency models do not bring chaperones. Unless they are underage. There are enough people present at a shoot that if the model feels she needs a chaperone, another one who fits the clients needs is most likely easily obtainable.

I understand that some photographers don't like models bringing chaperones. I do TFP exclusively, so when I feel I need a kind of personal assistant, yes, I bring an escort along. Usually my sister, but I've brought my fiance along to a shoot or two. This is not a common occurance (despite the claim on my profile).

If the photographer doesn't want a model bringing an escort I feel that as long as the model has checked the references and genuinely feels the photographer's work is something she could use, she should respect the photographers wishes.

Most photographers (on this site at least) are not psycho killer rapists. Models should do all the research possible in order to ensure her own safety before a shoot.

And photographers should stop generalizing. If you NYers want a reliable model, she's right here. The rest of you, if you're so fed up with models go shoot a tree or something. Otherwise, these posts about unbelievable model demands or unreliable models are really a dime a dozen.

Sita Mae Edwards wrote:
Right on!  Let's go out of our way to mock models some more!  The photographer/model relationship definitely isn't antagonistic enough already!

Come on, guys.  I saw the same profile yesterday, and even had the same moment of exasperation, but you know what?  I closed it and kept moving.  There's no reason to carry this stuff around with you.  Let it go.  For every annoying new model who won't shoot with you, there are two eager ones who will.  Find them, shoot with them, have a great time.  Why spend time worrying on a bone that won't change?

Way too much bashing in general here abouts - more than way too much model bashing. 

There's an old saying "If you don't like peaches, then don't shake my tree."  Live with the way the internet modeling/ photography world is and you will have less chance for an ulcer.  Bitching about it every six or 7th thread on this site ain't gonna change that world.

Moonlight Photography wrote:
Not so much on this site but the other. When a model lists her experience level as NONE and compensation rate at PAID JOBS ONLY. What a dream world we must live in!!

ALMOST as laughable as photographers with crappy images that want models to pay for working with them.

I'm going to second the notion that models and photographers making fun of each other is only going to make the relationships between the two worse. But whatever.

-D-

Kitapanda wrote:
Why do I feel compelled to beat this dead and rotting horse?

Agency models do not bring chaperones. Unless they are underage. There are enough people present at a shoot that if the model feels she needs a chaperone, another one who fits the clients needs is most likely easily obtainable.

Most photographers here do not constitute a client level studio set up.  Most photographers here or elsewhere on the net do not have a crew on the set either.

Kitapanda wrote:
Most photographers (on this site at least) are not psycho killer rapists. Models should do all the research possible in order to ensure her own safety before a shoot.

Excellent - a ringing endorsement - "MOST".  How many times does a women have to be raped or molested or scared shitless before it starts to count?  How many lives do any of you have?  Most people don't get mugged in a big city either but few venture down dark alleys to test those statistics, do they?

Can you google the majority of the photographer names here and even get a single find? 

Yeah, this subject is a dead horse alright.  If you have model come over to your store front, commerical studio, then she does not need an escort.  But if you have it all set up in your living room - she has right to question your legitimacy and protect herself.

Sita Mae Edwards wrote:
Right on!  Let's go out of our way to mock models some more!  The photographer/model relationship definitely isn't antagonistic enough already!

Come on, guys.  I saw the same profile yesterday, and even had the same moment of exasperation, but you know what?  I closed it and kept moving.  There's no reason to carry this stuff around with you.  Let it go.  For every annoying new model who won't shoot with you, there are two eager ones who will.  Find them, shoot with them, have a great time.  Why spend time worrying on a bone that won't change?

Dreams To Keep wrote:

Kitapanda wrote:
Why do I feel compelled to beat this dead and rotting horse?

Agency models do not bring chaperones. Unless they are underage. There are enough people present at a shoot that if the model feels she needs a chaperone, another one who fits the clients needs is most likely easily obtainable.

Most photographers here do not constitute a client level studio set up.  Most photographers here or elsewhere on the net do not have a crew on the set either.


Excellent - a ringing endorsement - "MOST".  How many times does a women have to be raped or molested or scared shitless before it starts to count?  How many lives do any of you have?  Most people don't get mugged in a big city either but few venture down dark alleys to test those statistics, do they?

Can you google the majority of the photographer names here and even get a single find? 

Yeah, this subject is a dead horse alright.  If you have model come over to your store front, commerical studio, then she does not need an escort.  But if you have it all set up in your living room - she has right to question your legitimacy and protect herself.

Never said not to question legitimacy. But you're on a model networking site. Most photographers here have worked with someone else on this site. If not, they can supply contact information with people they have worked with.

It's all about communication and research. An escort is not a substitute for thinking.

John Allen wrote:
Yea....the "Paid Jobs Only" but with "Very Experienced" and five soso (OK crappy) images usually by the model's photographer/manager.

two of my best photo sessions have been with models from "the other site" who had 3 out-dated and so-so photos in their profile.  Apparently, they were just too damned busy to worry about what their portfolio on that site looked like.  The sessions were tfcd and the models were fantastic and very creative.
You just never know!

Kitapanda wrote:

Never said not to question legitimacy. But you're on a model networking site. Most photographers here have worked with someone else on this site. If not, they can supply contact information with people they have worked with.

It's all about communication and research. An escort is not a substitute for thinking.

you know what...thats not always true either...
ive done research before... and every time. some models on here are too afraid of giving a bad ref. to photographers. there was this one photographer i shot with long ago ... went around asked for references, all that jazz...they didnt want me to bring an escort. so..since i got positive references i went without one... Needless to say.. most of my money was stolen from my purse and i was not acceptably touched...almost friggin molested. Since then...i go no where without an acceptable escort. If you do feel the need to go without one...to 'benefit the photographer' then make sure you get LOTS of references and find out the specific location. Or even meet up in public before hand just to get a feel for the photographer.
as a photographer myself.. i encourage the model to bring an escort..at least if it makes them comfortable..if they are leary or nervous and without an escort it will transfer into the photos.
so yea...sometimes on sites like this you cant trust references because some people are scared, nieve, or whatever. so make sure you get a LOT (i got 7 in that previous incident and it still happened)
i agree though... store  front studios you dont have to worry about it as much..but if they are shooting in some backwoods abandoned house or their own house or whatever i would question a little more, unless they have other people there as well.

Ian Weintraub wrote:

two of my best photo sessions have been with models from "the other site" who had 3 out-dated and so-so photos in their profile.  Apparently, they were just too damned busy to worry about what their portfolio on that site looked like.  The sessions were tfcd and the models were fantastic and very creative.
You just never know!

I have to agree - one of my first ever photoshoots was with an amateur.  Since then, his work has gotten better with every shoot, and he'll shoot any crazy idea I come up with and vice versa (for free!) because we've worked together from the beginning for both of us.  Maybe someone has a big dream and a little budget, so they put up what they have in the hopes of someone taking a chance on them.  I think we all judge to quickly and too harshly sometimes.

john knight wrote:
Well put, and I think it is just as bad for a photographer to bash a fellow photographer.

What is the big deal with photogs NOT wanting models to have escorts? Simple tell the escort to sit down , be quiet or leave , it is that simple. What is going on in a photogs head that makes them so hellbent on being Alone with a model? If a photog is hired for any professional shoot , do you really think the hiring agency is going to tolerate you "being alone" with the model ....HELL NO...they would move on to the next photog....shoots are going to be filled with distractions, MUA's, AD reps, Stylists.....be professional and allow the model to do what makes her comfie........

Okay, maybe I was doing a little too much "bashing", but in my defense, I wasn't generalizing -- I was being specific & direct.


Regarding escorts:  amateur escorts are sometimes a risk.  My experience so far has been positive, but I've heard directly from my fellow photographers about (admittedly rare) horror stories, ranging from being disruptive & judgmental, to being "light fingered" (i.e. wandering around & stealing), to beating up the photographer, stealing his cash & equipment, and leaving him for dead.  Models may come with references; escorts rarely do.

Kitapanda wrote:
Most photographers (on this site at least) are not psycho killer rapists.

Most?  Probably more like almost none...but how many does it take before a model or anyone else for that matter should be careful?

I have never had a problem with an escort and if it makes the model more comfortable, it is a good thing.  They often don't bring anyone to follow on shoots.

George Rice Photography wrote:
I have seen 2 requests by models (only 2 models) that I thought was odd.

1) they wanted to edit the images and approval on digital work done to it.

2) they wanted full controal and finial say over the image on when and where it was to be used.

if they are a PAYING client they can make demands

if not "Parata tin kargiola!"

Celestial Sinn wrote:

store  front studios you dont have to worry about it as much..but if they are shooting in some backwoods abandoned house or their own house or whatever i would question a little more, unless they have other people there as well.

I totally disagree with you on this one, I know of a model I will use as an example....No Names of course...

Me, I shoot at home with my wife present, the whole atmosphere is very professional. The same model recently shot in a "studio" the photographer smacks her on the butt, and tells her she has the ass of the year.
I personally feel that in the wrong hands a "studio" can be a bad thing....when a guy shoots out of his home, he is automatically considered an amatuer, GWC or a perv....but give the same guy a studio and he is considered a great photographer, a professional......but what if the Biggest perv in the world had a studio, is he a great guy......money and studio size do not reflect professionalism what so ever....

fiona goodell wrote:

I totally disagree with you on this one, I know of a model I will use as an example....No Names of course...

Me, I shoot at home with my wife present, the whole atmosphere is very professional. The same model recently shot in a "studio" the photographer smacks her on the butt, and tells her she has the ass of the year.
I personally feel that in the wrong hands a "studio" can be a bad thing....when a guy shoots out of his home, he is automatically considered an amatuer, GWC or a perv....but give the same guy a studio and he is considered a great photographer, a professional......but what if the Biggest perv in the world had a studio, is he a great guy......money and studio size do not reflect professionalism what so ever....

I think guys with big studios, big cameras and big budgets are trying to compensate for something else that's small....

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Okay, maybe I was doing a little too much "bashing", but in my defense, I wasn't generalizing -- I was being specific & direct.


Regarding escorts:  amateur escorts are sometimes a risk.  My experience so far has been positive, but I've heard directly from my fellow photographers about (admittedly rare) horror stories, ranging from being disruptive & judgmental, to being "light fingered" (i.e. wandering around & stealing), to beating up the photographer, stealing his cash & equipment, and leaving him for dead.  Models may come with references; escorts rarely do.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
1)  I see nothing wrong or "funny" about a model choosing to be very selective about the photographers willing to pose on a TFP/TFCD basis. 

2)  I see nothing wrong with models wishing financial compensation for their time posing, regardless of their experience.

I'm one of those photographers who think TFP/TFCD is a raw deal for models -- in fact, I think it's exploitation.  I am also of the opinion that using sarcasm & scorn for models who want/need compensation (more than the TFP/TFCD) is counterproductive.

My bottom line:  if you don't like the deal being offered, either make a counter offer or walk away -- ragging on models in general is unprofessional, immature, and gives us considerate photographers a bad name.

I completely agree.

Myopic Earache wrote:
I've seen this one before:

"For all shoots I must share copyright and I require a copy of every frame shot." 

Heh, this always makes me laugh > crtl W > next.

that's good....
i'd like to book a shoot with her and crop her head out of each frame and then give her a cd with all of the photos straight off the camera. LOL