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is there a difference between art and pornography?
I'm new to the industry so please let me excuse this question if it's been discussed before or if it sounds like a silly question. I'm having a hard time figuring out the difference. Before I came on this site I saw modeling basically as a person's ability to sell a product or service, clothes, jewelry, cosmetics, cars, etc in ads and fashion shows. Now I'm confused. There are alot of nude photos on this site and I was wondering what type of work those models are looking for? This may be just me being new and not knowing enough about the industry, but when I see a model's port is filled with nothing but nude photos I assume that she wants to become some sort of a porn star(in nude magazines or movies). On the other hand models that have nude photos that aren't clearly showing their personal body parts(I usually see these in black and white) I assume want to be hired by photographers that display their photos in galleries for sale. Does there have to be physical sexual contact for it to be considered pornographic? Can someone please tell me the difference between artistic nudes and pornography? This is an honest question. I truly do not know the difference. Thanks Much, Melissa Mar 02 06 08:20 pm Link If rich people buy it then it's art. Mar 02 06 08:23 pm Link If Melvin Moten Jr. makes it, it's pornography. (sorry... this HAS been discussed ad nauseum on MM) oh, btw... welcome to model mayhem.  Mar 02 06 08:26 pm Link Sweetie, before you go accusing all nude models of wanting to be porn stars, i would suggest you search the MM forums for posts like yours...as others have said, this topic has been beaten to a pulp on here. Mar 02 06 08:39 pm Link Belle OHara wrote: I'm new to the industry so please let me excuse this question if it's been discussed before or if it sounds like a silly question. Mar 02 06 08:44 pm Link well, i really don't know how to answer the OP. I do know that not everyone on here is in the "industry". Many here, like myself, are here to network and are not pros but merely interested in artistic collaboration. I know some of the models on here that do a great deal of nude work and they are doing art nudes that would be for sale as prints and not for an internet site. Mar 02 06 08:47 pm Link  Mar 02 06 08:49 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: I really don't know how to respond to such a narrow minded comment - a woman who models nude must want to be a porn star?!?!?!? Mar 02 06 08:52 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: When I see the port of someone who makes a living applying war paint to models to Jezebel them up, including lipstick, which as we all know was used by Egyptian temple prostitutes to advertise their specialty of oral sex, I assume that she just wants to become some sort of temple prostitute herself. Of course, that's just me. Mar 02 06 09:03 pm Link William Coleman wrote: LOL TEMPLE PROSTITUE Mar 02 06 09:08 pm Link Greg Kolack, I did not mean that all women who pose nude want to become porn stars. Your comment is the only reason I hesitated to ask this question, people tend to get offended easily when it comes to their work or their art. Just for my own personal knowledge I wanted to know what the line was between artistic nudes and pornographic images. I'm just learning. Just so you know I don't see anything wrong with models posing nude. I just wanted to know because I have a fine art shoot coming up. I wanted to know so I could know which images I could put in my book and which ones I shouldn't. I think it's a beautiful thing when a woman feels so comfortable with her body that she has the confidence to pose nude. But again please forgive my comments if I offended anyone. There was no ill intent behind it. Thanks Much for your responses, Melissa Mar 02 06 09:15 pm Link As I stated before-because some folks have doscissed it time and again doesn't mean everyone has. Plus it's a photo forum with models and photogs so the scope of discussion is limited to about a hundred items before they begin again. Everyones perception is different. Had a freind of mine start screaming "Porn!" because I had photo'ed a couple of models in bathing suits and my own mother did the same for a shot with a nude girl laying on the forest floor. You could see the curve of her buttock on one sode. My personal view of porn varies between the shot-standard to me is anything showing spread, insertion and so on-none of which I shoot unless I'm paid quit well. No interest in it. Others including yourself may vary in degree. Mar 02 06 09:18 pm Link If you look at it in the bathtub with candles lit and it hangs on your wall it is art. If you look at on the john while self pleasuring with the door locked and it is stored under the hamper it is porn. Mar 02 06 09:24 pm Link If its done in black & white, you can't see the models face, it looks like the desert at midnight in the moonlight, and everybody says its a great picture but no one wants to buy it, its called fine art. If its in color, well-metered and you can see the models face, its called glamour. If its in color, you can't see the models face, you aren't thinking about the metering, and you just had it wrapped in brown kraft paper, its called porn. Just my 2 cents Mar 02 06 09:25 pm Link William Coleman. Your comment was very sweet. Thank you. The world might be a boring place without people misunderstanding what they read or hear. But thank you for responding, and may God bless you. Melissa Mar 02 06 09:27 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: "when I see a model's port is filled with nothing but nude photos I assume that she wants to become some sort of a porn star(in nude magazines or movies)." Mar 02 06 09:31 pm Link Iona Lynn wrote: But sometimes that can be one and the same....... Mar 02 06 09:33 pm Link I think the answer lies in the intent of the person or persons creating the work. If the intent is to sexually arrouse by displaying intimate body parts ingaged in sexual activity (i.e. penetration, or stimulation) I think you could call it porn. But if the intent is to display the interaction of light on the textures of the skin or the lines, shapes and forms created by the human body, you can call it art. The use of nudity to sell something lies in the gray murky area somewhere in between. Porn can be art - and art can be porn... Mar 02 06 09:33 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: Mar 02 06 09:35 pm Link Would you please define pornography for me. Mar 02 06 09:37 pm Link Pornography is material that is intended to coax sexual arousal. Art is . . . harder to define. One of my goals as a photographer is to produce erotic pictures that are so enticing that viewers feel aroused, but which is so beautifully done that they call it art. Mar 02 06 09:40 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: Maybe I really misunderstood, but did you not say "but when I see a model's port is filled with nothing but nude photos I assume that she wants to become some sort of a porn star(in nude magazines or movies)." Then you say "I did not mean that all women who pose nude want to become porn stars. " So you are contradicting yourself here. Mar 02 06 09:42 pm Link Iona Lynn wrote: Because of your writing here, Iona, I know more about art -vs- porn. Mar 02 06 09:42 pm Link Mr. Coleman. What I meant from the pornstar reference was this. I've met girls that have all nude photos on their site. And they told me that it was because they wanted to be in the porn industry either in mags or movies. That's why I wanted to know what the difference was because I no longer want to assume that all women with sites like that want to do porn. But I can understand why you would think that I called all nude models pornstars. I should've been more clear. I was taught that if you don't know something research it or just ask. And that's exactly what I did. I am not a pro and that's why I looked to the professionals on MM to help me understand. Again I apologize if I offended anyone. Melissa Mar 02 06 09:47 pm Link Melissa Rachelle wrote: Thank you for your post, Melissa. I sincerely apologize to YOU for my sarcasm. I try to count to 10 before sending posts like that, but I didn't make it that time. Mar 02 06 09:52 pm Link If I understand you correctly your question was: Can someone please tell me the difference between artistic nudes and pornography? This is an honest question. I truly do not know the difference. Well, I would still like to know why any model who decides to pose nude should be considered a porn star. Your question leads me to my first question which is : Please define pornography for me? I am dying to hear it from your point of view. Mar 02 06 09:55 pm Link So many people are so touchy about this! I'm not going to touch the art v. pornography debate, as that's been done to death, but I would like to say something about nude photos on MM. The reasons for nude photography, outside of a specifically fine-arts context, are: 1. Models need great body shots for their portfolios. Ideally, the closer to naked the casting director can see you, the better. Generally casting directors don't like to see anything too graphic, so we use "implied nudity" which is where the model is naked on the set but cropping or lighting are changed to leave out the "naughty bits" .. this is fairly common and professional. 2. Personally, I do a lot of athletic-themed stock shoots, and athletic shots often call for partial nudity. There are a lot of stock applications for implied nudes. 3. THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON TO SHOOT NUDES: One of my professors at Columbia teaches a class specifically on "The Nude" because he also teaches the fashion photography classes, and he's noticed that students who have experience shooting nudes are MUCH better fashion shooters. The human form underlies all photography, and the photographic nude has a long and beautiful artistic history. You can't hardly blame photographers for wanting to shoot the most challenging subject in the world - the naked body. Also, some photographers are just hornballs, particularly the straight male ones. There are a lot of photographers who shoot nudes just to hit on models, which I don't really approve of, because it makes the rest of us look like perverts when we ask models to do nude shoots. All the models out there reading this should remember, outside of the United States EVERY major fashion magazine features full frontal nudity on a regular basis. That's my two cents. I hope it helps somebody at least... Mar 02 06 10:01 pm Link sex sells and being a body art artist i know this more than most. Mar 02 06 10:06 pm Link Hi Haleh. I only consider things pornographic if there is sexual contact whether with toys or another person, not just photos of the human form. My question wasn't referring to personal standards or morals and what not. It was referring to the modeling industry. example: the modeling industry considers 5'7 to be short. I'm 5'3, so to me 5'7 is somewhat tall. I did not mean that nude=pornographic. I wanted to know if I take my book to a top modeling agency in the future, what body parts or gestures (if there are any) should I not show in my book. I currently have a painting of a nude woman on my wall it's absolutely beautiful. But it's cool if people still cannot understand what I meant. Thanks everyone! Mar 02 06 10:15 pm Link Melissa, I am somewhat confused about your post but that is not important. Maybe I am not having a good night! I just wanted you to know as a female photographer I have photographed many women nude and yes by all means I call my images of those women "artistic nudes". All those women whom I had the pleasure of working with are decent women with regular lives such as yours and mine. None ever came to me because they aspired to be porn stars. They simply felt comfortable in their skin and wanted to be presented in that fashion. I know a lot of people in general who have an issue with nudity and that is personally fine with me but they should not judge those who see things differently. I still respect your views. Mar 02 06 10:24 pm Link What you should and should not take to an agency depends on what that agency tends to do. I enjoy doing nudes and implied nudes, because I was raised European and have the mentality that the human body is gorgeous, and that naked doesn't automatically mean sexual or pornographic. That's actually what I'm going to be touching on in a shoot this Saturday, by deliberately pulling religion into a nude shoot, as can be seen on my site with the concept work I've been doing alone. I was contacted by someone a few weeks ago to do what is flat-out pornography, and I took serious offense. They were a little confused as to what the difference between nude and porno is, and frankly, they were just an internet pimp. Pornography varies on a person-to-person basis. However, if you can buy it at the local Megaplexxx, it's probably porn, and not art. Equally, there IS an artistic side to porn. But, as adults who have probably seen some in your lifetime, I'm SURE you know that  Mar 02 06 10:26 pm Link |
