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Slightly different discussion about escorts
I'm asking this specifically of photographers who pay for travel expenses. If you don't, please don't respond, "I don't do that!" For those of you who fly models from out of town, how do you handle the escort issue. Lately, I've been trying to book out of state models for paid shoots. Problem is, when it comes time to book the flight the models drop the "I need to bring an escort" bomb. Here's the problem: Usually, the shoot I am offering does not pay enough for the model to pay for her own escort's travel arrangements, and go home with enough money to really warrant her getting on a plane. And I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And typically, I fly the model in just for a day or a weekend at the longest. So she really doesn't have enough time to book other shoots to offset her escort's expenses. The biggest frustration for me, is this revelation doesn't come to light until we're several e-mails into discussing the shoot. If they would just say up-front that they need an escort, then it would save both of us a lot of wasted time trying to book the shoot. Discuss. Mar 01 06 11:20 pm Link if you are paying for travel AND paying the model, offer to pay for the escort as well as the model in exchange for her fee, maybe offer a couple of prints fromt he shot for port use to sweeten the deal. not saying that it's an option you might WANT to take, but it's an option. Mar 01 06 11:23 pm Link Perhaps word it specifically in the beginning. Ex: "total travel budget for the shoot". Given a little more thought best wording could make it clear that there is a budget/maximum available for travel. Do you think that would help dispense with later misunderstandings? If travel for 2 exceeds the budget then no shoot (or escort pays his/her own way, etc.). Just a thought. Mar 01 06 11:25 pm Link Ransom J wrote: Problem there is I wouldn't expect someone to fly clear across the country just to shoot... and since i'm paying her, she cannot count on getting any images. So, really she wouldn't gain anything by doing the shoot in the first place. Mar 01 06 11:26 pm Link Those things that are "double occupancy": then it cost me no more to have an escort along. Travel, however, is different. I they are coming in his or the model's car, then I will pay for at least part of the expenses since I am really paying the model's travel. I guess I have to say I pay only part of the escort's expenses; the part that doesn't add significantly to my tab. If push came to shove, I would have to ponder just how badly I needed that particular model. Mar 01 06 11:29 pm Link John Jebbia wrote: Which is why i said don't pay her. Give her a couple images from the shoot **your discretion** to be used for her port and pay for the escort. that way you get to work with the model, she get's SOMETHING out of the deal even if it's only one or two pics, and her escort gets to come along so she can feel comfortable. Mar 01 06 11:35 pm Link My stance is that the escort is for the models benefit, not mine. How badly do you want to work with the model? If really bad, then offer to pay more money (enough to cover the escorts expenses). Mar 01 06 11:56 pm Link Is she wants the chaperone, she gets to pay for the travel. Whether or not there is enough money in the shoot for her to be able to cover that expense is directly related to how badly you need her look and/or skills. If you need them badly enough to pay an amount sufficient to cover those costs, she'll be fine. If not, you should pass on the model and find someone local. Mar 02 06 12:35 am Link If she/they are driving and it's not a cross-country trip then I'l pay the gas and a meal. If it's an airline ticket then they can figure out how to get the escort here-The escort can take a bus for all I care. I love to shoot and find particular models for a project but I can find another to fit the bill within my budget and the model can find local work. Mar 02 06 01:44 am Link I think that the only thing that you can do is to discuss this proactively up-front.... "the total travel budget is $XXX. This is enough to cover your plane and hotel expenses but not enough to cover expenses for an escort. If you wish to bring an escort then those expenses will need to be covered by you." This should ferret out the issue very quickly. Dave Mar 02 06 04:50 am Link Who is insisting on the escort? The model. She doesn't have to bring one so it is both OPTIONAL and the MODEL'S CHOICE to do it. Just like buying a car... the salesman is going to try and interest you in all the "extras" but you don't have to buy them, do you? On first contact you need to make it clear [terms and conditions of your offer to the model] that: 1) You will pay the model's expenses and accommodation; and 2) You don't/won't pay for anyone to accompany the model unless you are, for some reason, explicitly inviting them to come as well [e.g. husband and wife / minor and parent / two models travelling together and intending to shoot together] Take it or leave it. Here's a different viewpoint... A rational cost analysis may even show that it would be cheaper for you to travel to the model rather then bring the model to you... unless YOU need an escort too. Studio36 Mar 02 06 07:31 am Link John Jebbia wrote: One more reason, *NOT* to do escorts. Mar 02 06 09:35 am Link I agree with those saying "Pay the model's travel...escort are at her own discretion" It's not a requirement of the job that she have an escort, and she can not demand that you get her boyfriend free cross country travel with her. Of course, she *can* demand anything she wants, but it's not a requirement of the shoot that her escort be there, so why are you responsible if they can travel with the model or not? If a model wants to travel cross country, and have an escort, my suggestion would be she find an escort local to that shoot. Now, the only question I have for those I agree with is: do the rules change if the model is under 18? Would you cover travel expenses for the child's parent? Mar 02 06 09:46 am Link It's tough to answer, based on limited information. Some new thoughts: If the model feels unsafe, perhaps you can give her some references and/or provide a local person as an escort (e.g. your wife will be present). Souinds like you are using multiple models, perhaps you can tell the reluctant model the name of the other models (with the other models' permission, of course), and maybe they will be more comfortable knowing the people who will be there. Perhaps you don't have to foot the entire bill for the escort? Negotiate a stipend and/or per diem? Mar 02 06 10:21 am Link Perhaps the model could arrange an escort that is local to you. Basically the model is concerned for his/her safety. The presence of another person, even if not well known to the model would provide assurance. Sort of a babysitter for models. Someone from MM, a friend of a friend from college, an adult babysitter from the locel YMCA. By suggesting that the model arrange a local escort, you put the ball into the models court. The model has to do the research to find the right person. Mar 02 06 12:53 pm Link just since it seems to be photogs only answering, i thought i'd throw in my two cents as a pro model... (i know you'll all rip me apart, but if you wanna hear where she's coming from...) its her fault for not being upfront about this, you DO have budget limitations! (we all do!)- BUT... The ONLY way I agree to go out of town for a shoot is if they pay for an escort to accompany me, especially anyone I met via the internet somewhere like here on MM... don't get me wrong, its not that there aren't great, reliable pro people on here, but its is what it is... I don't bring escorts on jobs I've secured through my agency that are paid, but someone I "met" and viewed their work (and even got referrals from other models) - no way I'll show up alone. And if you want me to travel to shoot, you'd better be prepared to arrange for both. Its a safety issue, and not something I would compromise. (And a local escort, though a nice thought, would be as much a stranger to me as the photog- the point of having an escort is having someone you KNOW is there for your best interests, not the photographers'.) If you want me without all that, then you're paying my agency rate and doing all the lovely cotracts and paperwork in advance through them. I'm not saying that all models should do this or what's "right", just letting you know my pov... (now keep the peace, ya'll!  Mar 02 06 01:12 pm Link (sorry, you ASKED photogs, not models- i got all caught up in the replies! sorry! Mar 02 06 01:14 pm Link John... I know you're asking photographers, not models... BUT don't get into the business of paying for an escort. It's not worth it. If this person is someone you really want to work with, they will either take the references from the models that have flown in and worked with you or they will pay for the escort on their own. Why should you pay for someone to stand around and wait? Sounds like you're paying for someone elses vacation... hell if you want to do that, fly me down, I'll chaperone AND you'll get a shoot in afterwards. The day that I ask for a chaperone to travel with me AND be paid for is the day that hell freezes over... that is a ridiculous request. Mar 02 06 01:22 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: It is interesting. If a model feels unsafe, I would probably rather not shoot with her. Mar 02 06 01:25 pm Link Friday Art Photography wrote: Nice thought, but this could be a liability issue. If she arranges to have an escort locally who is just as much a stranger as I am, then who is liable should said escort do the model any harm. Or what if the escort gets in an accident with the model on board. Since I am the hiring party, I may share some of the liability... Mar 02 06 06:53 pm Link Thanks for all the replies.. keep 'em comin. Mar 02 06 06:56 pm Link James Jackson wrote: Then it becomes a requirement to the shoot. IMO Mar 02 06 07:06 pm Link James Jackson wrote: Yes. But I really cannot forsee myself needing to fly a minor to me. Mar 02 06 07:10 pm Link I pay travel. I do not allow models to bring excorts with them to my trips. I usually have 1-2 other models and they share a room. So no way will I allow their OTHER to come with them. If she come to Dallas for a shoot fine with me but I AM NOT PAYING FOR IT. On second thought why would I hire a model to come to town and let her bring her OTHER with her. They could then have a free weekend here at my expense. On 3rd thought NO EXCORTS EVER. thanks John you made me see things in a slightly different light. bs Mar 02 06 07:43 pm Link Lens N Light wrote: I had a friend who paid the model and she got the photog to pay for her OTHERS flight in lieu of some pay. so they got to town and had a good old time on my friends money and he never did shoot her. She used him just to come to town with her BF on his money. Mar 02 06 07:46 pm Link bobby sargent wrote: I think you and I think/work alike. One of these days, we may be able to actually meet. Mar 02 06 07:50 pm Link I don't deal with models who feel the need for bodyguard because of me. That solves the escort travel issue. Mar 03 06 12:54 am Link If the model wants to bring a escort. I hope her escort can fit in the overhead bin, or under the seat otherwise that tabs on her. Paul Mar 03 06 01:40 am Link If I'm paying for travel, it's for the model only. If she wants an escort, fine. She can bring the escort to the shoot. Now, how the ESCORT gets to the city where we are shooting is on the model.  Mar 04 06 04:05 pm Link No escorts on my sets unless the model is a minor. Anyone else on the set are shoot-essential. If the model wants to bring someone to meet me, check out the studio, leave and then come back after the shoot, cool. But they have to get their butts there on their own nickel. I'll feed the escort of she's adorable. Mar 04 06 08:38 pm Link well its all confusing to me, im not following the 'need' to fly a model to the photographer, or vice versa i have to say there isnt a model on MM/OMP/muse, that i would feel i would 'HAVE' to fly to me (anyway) for a shoot. to date, i havent had a problem, (ever) finding a comparable or equal model locally if i was a model, i would expect them to give me a 'transportation budget', (consistent with the federal gov't 's per diem rates and travel allowances) and try to work in my escort into that budget (which if you are following govt per diem guidelines is really really easy), or decline the shoot....because conversely, with the possible exceptions of 1 or 2 photogs, there isnt a photog on MM/OMP/muse etc that any model should feel she absolutely NEEDS to fly to so that she can say 'so and so' photographed me. Mar 04 06 09:56 pm Link this is nonsense - your concern is not the model's escort. Whatever the payment is ... if it is indeed enough to cover the travel expenses and the model goes home with great pictures, you've done your part. If you're not giving her pictures but you're paying the model, then your rates are what they are - that's it. When the inevitible "I have an escort" issue comes up, it should be mentioned that's an issue the model would have to work out or he/she's not for you. I'm wondering why you would even take the time to post this Mar 04 06 10:01 pm Link I think it's the model's responsibility to pay for the travel expenses of an escort. Why pay airfare for someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the shoot? If she wants to bring an escort - and demands that you pay the escort's ticket - then demand that she find an escort who can double as a model. Mar 04 06 10:08 pm Link John Jebbia wrote: I would imagine that the local escort would be a friend, old college buddy, relative...otherwise--what would be the point? Mar 04 06 10:20 pm Link |
