DigitalCMH wrote:

That's true...but I hope they don't get posted in a thread titled, "Worst Pics Ever"

Lol, thats exactly why i opened this thread, worried names were going to be listed =P

S wrote:
Ok, so here is the situation...


Should I ask him to take these pics down?  Should I just leave it be and not even think about it?  I don't have him listed in my credits, and I'd NEVER post one of those pics.  Unless it was to show all of you how terrible they were.  Do I warn girls away from him?  I had 2 escorts with me, and still found him kinda creepy.  What do I do?

Okay, this is simply my opinion but...


This is the risk you take getting in front of anyone's camera.  The results could be horrible, but you have to be willing to accept that possibility.  What you have to consider is that this guy may be doing the absolute best that he is able to do.  That's significant!!  Because he's not on at the level of someone else with whom you've worked is irrelevant.  Allow him to be proud of his work and that's that.  Also, there will certainly be times where the point is not for you to look your best, it might be for you to look the way the photographer needs you to look.  Did he acheive his goal with the photos?  If so, you can't fault him for wanting to put them up.

There are models with whom I've worked and in turn they shot with other photographers.  If they took my photos down, that's their choice.  But if the shots I have are worth showing along with the rest of my pictures, then guess what...?

Again, you were starting out.  Ever think the reason they look bad could've had to do with your inexperience in front of the camera?  Don't downplay your role in bad photos.  If it's important that he take those shots down, why not work with him again and specify how you want the images to turn out.

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
This is a very insulting thread. You call the guy creepy as if were in the 8th grade. If you don't like the images so what it shows worst on his part not yours. Its sounds like your praising one guy and shunning the first photographer that would ever work with you! what an arrogant attitude. Listen never burn your bridges ! and if you missed that I'll say that again never burn your bridges!






KARLOS MATTHEWS
www.karlosmatthews.com
714 319 7022

Never say "never..."  It depends on the bridge.

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
This is a very insulting thread. You call the guy creepy as if were in the 8th grade. If you don't like the images so what it shows worst on his part not yours. Its sounds like your praising one guy and shunning the first photographer that would ever work with you! what an arrogant attitude. Listen never burn your bridges ! and if you missed that I'll say that again never burn your bridges!

So I'm not allowed to call out a photographer who makes me uncomfortable and feel as if he's leering at me?  I'm not allowed to criticize his work because of after "37 years of experience" his lighting is poor?  At least he didn't work out of his home, which I think would only ADD to any bad feelings I had about him.  And though I didn't mention myself, doesn't mean I don't recoginize the fact that some of the cause is my inexperience.  However, I think there is a line between "amateur model" and "photographer who doesn't know his lights, dosen't give direction, makes a model feel uncomforable, and brutally photochops what might otherwise be an okay picture."  If this makes me arrogant?  Fine, don't work with me.  I don't think you'll find one photographer in my credits  (and even some who aren't yet) who would say I have a bad attitude, am horrible to work with, or am unprofessional.  Regardless, you'll see on the previous page of responses the email I sent back to him, which is NOT burning any bridges while STILL tell him that I'm not going to work with him ever again.

DeBoer Photography wrote:

But you have burned some bridges here that you haven't even crossed yet.

Regards,

Denoy

If my concerns regarding what I consider extremely low quality images floating out on the web burns bridges with you Denoy, then so be it.  I find it highly amusing that photographers can bitch about models who have taken raw images, photoshop, and post them with the photographers name attached when he/she doesn't want their name associated with the crap the model created, but I cant bitch about a photographer having pictures of me up that I don't want to be associated with?  Double standard. 

Again, though, if I burned bridges with you Denoy, I can't say that the indians didn't leave a sign in the dirt pointing me on to the next bridge, across the same river, a mile down.

Shyly wrote:
There are a couple of photographs of me floating around out there that I desperately try to pretend never happened.  I wouldn't ask anyone to take them down - after all, it's their work too - but I certainly wouldn't go back for more!

Consider it as evidence of how far you've come. 

right on sister!  we're living in an age where almost everything we do is documented forever.  especially if you model.  thats just the way the stone rolls.

S wrote:
So I'm not allowed to call out a photographer who makes me uncomfortable and feel as if he's leering at me?  I'm not allowed to criticize his work because of after "37 years of experience" his lighting is poor?  At least he didn't work out of his home, which I think would only ADD to any bad feelings I had about him.  And though I didn't mention myself, doesn't mean I don't recoginize the fact that some of the cause is my inexperience.  However, I think there is a line between "amateur model" and "photographer who doesn't know his lights, dosen't give direction, makes a model feel uncomforable, and brutally photochops what might otherwise be an okay picture."  If this makes me arrogant?  Fine, don't work with me.  I don't think you'll find one photographer in my credits  (and even some who aren't yet) who would say I have a bad attitude, am horrible to work with, or am unprofessional.  Regardless, you'll see on the previous page of responses the email I sent back to him, which is NOT burning any bridges while STILL tell him that I'm not going to work with him ever again.

first off practice a little tact!. A photographer is leering at you is that illeagal--no! So you felt uncomfortable maybe he was also. The photographer did not step out of line if he did you didn't say so which is a different topic.

second : 37 years says alot, regardless of what you think, someone likes his work or he would not be in business! As far as working out of his home I know many top photographers who work out of their homes. Look up the cost of running a studio it can get expensive which add to to fact he able to support himself and maintain a studio which many photographer can't.

third : there are photos I've taken that I am not so proud of now. The models are still using the pics regardless of the poor PS, lighting and composition. I would never never say to them please take the pics down. I know models that I would never work with again but I will not "call them out". You don't want to make enemies photographers talk to each other as do MUA, models stylist assistants etc..... There are many things you can accomplish in this world if you say it the right way.

So with that said I'm going to be a little harsh by saying I think your acting like a 8th grader learn to be an adult

KARLOS MATTHEWS wrote:
first off practice a little tact!. A photographer is leering at you is that illeagal--no! So you felt uncomfortable maybe he was also. The photographer did not step out of line if he did you didn't say so which is a different topic.

I'd like you to point out to me where I said that he did anything illegal or that he stepped over the line.  I only pointed out that he made me extremely uncomfortable and I felt as if he was leering at me.  Nothing further.

second : 37 years says alot, regardless of what you think, someone likes his work or he would not be in business! As far as working out of his home I know many top photographers who work out of their homes. Look up the cost of running a studio it can get expensive which add to to fact he able to support himself and maintain a studio which many photographer can't.

Neither did I say that ALL of his work is bad.  His wedding portraits, senior pictures, etc are pretty good.  I know people like his work.  However, many of his modeling pics are not, and I'm only concerned with the ones of me.  And as far as working out of home, I know many great photographers who have home studios, I was making the comparison to the GWCs and "creepy" photographers who regularly make models feel uncomfortable.  (Disclaimer, because I know you'll take it that I am calling him a GWC, which I'm not, but because he made me uncomfortable, I'm well within my rights to call him creepy, wether others view him so or not)

third : there are photos I've taken that I am not so proud of now. The models are still using the pics regardless of the poor PS, lighting and composition. I would never never say to them please take the pics down. I know models that I would never work with again but I will not "call them out". You don't want to make enemies photographers talk to each other as do MUA, models stylist assistants etc..... There are many things you can accomplish in this world if you say it the right way.

Ha.  Telling me I act like an 8th grader but you don't read.  Go back through the thread, and try finding the posts I wrote about how I resolved the email and my multiple posts about "calling him out/warning girls away".  And as far as I can tell, I never even alluded to who the photographer actually was, including posting the picture on an ALTERNATE site so that there was no way to link back to his page.

Again, you and Deboer may choose not to work with me any longer.  That is your decision.  Like I said, I have others who I can work with.

ReallyRandy wrote:
Wow, long thread!
First of all, it may make you feel better to know that I wouldn't even know it was you if I saw that horrendous one and then saw your port. So I think most people won't put 2+2 together and realize it's you.
As far as "creepy" goes, I know what you mean. I'm a guy and I even get creeped out sometimes. If a girl feels that a guy is getting some sort of sexual satisfaction out of her, or has a hidden agenda, she'll be "creeped" out.
I try my best not to appear creepy by intentionally looking at your face when I speak to you, looking away when I don't need to be looking, and having my very pretty wife around. But I think thats the difference between a professional and a GWC.

my 2 cents
Randy

Hey Randy
Here's a quarter for my thoughts. The difference between a GWC and a professional is "MONEY". The professional may or may not be as qualified as the GWC but they (professionals) have the studio overhead. They have to get the rent paid and bust butt to do it. GWC, a home studio that may or may not have a large overhead or the best lighting, probably not. They enjoy shooting everyday. Some professionals find it hard to just open the business thinking of all the crap that's going to be thrown at them today or how much work has to be done. Sometimes 24/7 is their time zone for working just to keep going. Keep badmouthing the GWC's as most find it somewhat funny. Your expertise probably isn't any better, your lighting probably is but then your GWC friends probably pick up the check when you're out since he has the money that you still trying to make as a professional. (Not speaking of you personally).
Good Lord, if a particular guy with a camera is a sicko spell it out, put a name to it but not all GWC's land in this pot.

Likewise young models with first shoots that are creeped out by photographers while being escorted by two chaparones. Give me a break. What ever happened to "I don't feel comfortable shooting with you, I need to leave".
Cause I'm a nice person, I doubt it very much. If the guy shot some bad pics then they may have been the best he could do with his talent. I would bet the model knew his work before she shot with him and if she didn't then shame on her, not the photographer.
This thing could go on forever and no one really has any facts about what really took place except for a single bad picture.

Sometimes these threads wanna make you crush your mouse.

DeBoer Photography wrote:

So what you're saying is having a pretty wife makes one a pro versus a GWC?

Not at all, I just like to compliment her anytime I mention her, that's all. No biggie

Dig. Plus Photo wrote:

Hey Randy
Here's a quarter for my thoughts. The difference between a GWC and a professional is "MONEY". The professional may or may not be as qualified as the GWC but they (professionals) have the studio overhead. They have to get the rent paid and bust butt to do it. GWC, a home studio that may or may not have a large overhead or the best lighting, probably not. They enjoy shooting everyday. Some professionals find it hard to just open the business thinking of all the crap that's going to be thrown at them today or how much work has to be done. Sometimes 24/7 is their time zone for working just to keep going. Keep badmouthing the GWC's as most find it somewhat funny. Your expertise probably isn't any better, your lighting probably is but then your GWC friends probably pick up the check when you're out since he has the money that you still trying to make as a professional. (Not speaking of you personally).
Good Lord, if a particular guy with a camera is a sicko spell it out, put a name to it but not all GWC's land in this pot.

Likewise young models with first shoots that are creeped out by photographers while being escorted by two chaparones. Give me a break. What ever happened to "I don't feel comfortable shooting with you, I need to leave".
Cause I'm a nice person, I doubt it very much. If the guy shot some bad pics then they may have been the best he could do with his talent. I would bet the model knew his work before she shot with him and if she didn't then shame on her, not the photographer.
This thing could go on forever and no one really has any facts about what really took place except for a single bad picture.

Sometimes these threads wanna make you crush your mouse.

point taken...

I didn't mean to insinuate all people who don't make a living at it are GWCs, or for that matter that all GWCs are creepy.
I only meant to say that I would think that some one who is a true professional woudn't be creepy in general.
Not that I'm such a big prefessional photographer or anything but I do act professionally.

Thats all I meant to say.