Photographer
Aesthetics Photography
Posts: 217
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Why does it seem that many models on this site think they are professional enough to charge for their time? I suppose, I don't understand how models with bad images in their portfolios won't accept help to make their portfolios better. I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay. If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this??
Model
Envy
Posts: 11189
Nashville, Tennessee, US
::bangs head on keyboard::
This topic is covered at the very least 4 times a week.
Please feel free to use the search feature.
Photographer
Chuck Holliday
Posts: 484
New York, New York, US
maybe they feel that their photos are good to them, despite what others may feel or say about them.
i'm not being sarcastic either, some people dont really understand the meaning of having certain types of photos featured, but maybe they like those photos and dont think theyre bad to them.
just an opinion
Photographer
C R Photography
Posts: 3594
Pleasanton, California, US
Envy wrote:
::bangs head on keyboard:: Ha! I knew you were a head banger.
Metalica Rules!... 
Photographer
MarkMarek
Posts: 2211
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
This topic has been beaten to death here. Perhaps a Forum Search feature would provide you with profusion of answers. In general, anyone can charge whatever they believe they're worth, but whether they get hired is a whole separate matter.
EDIT: Holy schmokes, 3 replies came before I was able to type this brief note... Lol, you guys sure are fast typers.
Photographer
theedge
Posts: 2008
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
It's a open market & anyone can set the standard they believe that is right for them...
Photographer
theedge
Posts: 2008
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
C R Photography wrote:
Ha! I knew you were a head banger.
Metalica Rules!... Slayer Rules---War Ensemble!!!!!!
Model
Envy
Posts: 11189
Nashville, Tennessee, US
C R Photography wrote:
Ha! I knew you were a head banger.
Metalica Rules!... No. Styx Rules!
*please note that is sarcasm* 
Model
The_N_Word
Posts: 5067
New York, New York, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
Why does it seem that many models on this site think they are professional enough to charge for their time? I suppose, I don't understand how models with bad images in their portfolios won't accept help to make their portfolios better. I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay. If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this?? Maybe they don't see your work the same way you do. "Only paid work" as a response is sometimes an excuse because they may not be interested in the what they're being offered.
Model
Shyly
Posts: 3870
Pasadena, California, US
What youâre doing isnât what they want to do, and they donât feel it will improve their portfolio. Youâve got a lot of snapshots of feet and most of your models are missing their heads. I would quote you my hourly rate, too. What you have displayed there wouldn't help a model get future work. You haven't demonstrated the ability to deliver clear, well lit headshots, or the fashion or casual work that you say in your bio you like to do. Iâm genuinely not trying to be mean, but what you have posted is not what most of the models here on MM are targeting. Are you using fetish specific sites to search for models? You might have more luck there.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Envy wrote:
::bangs head on keyboard::
This topic is covered at the very least 4 times a week.
Please feel free to use the search feature. Just four times a week? Oh, it must have slowed down.
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Possibly because where you look at their pics and dont like what you see they look at your port and do the same?
Perhaps they are only here because then they can tell their mates they are a model?
Perhaps because they like the pics they have ?
small set of examples there because there are going to be a LOT of reasons and thoughts on this..as people have said, a search will show you lists and lists of them that have come up in the past.
There is never going to be a single factor..just a mix of lots of them.
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
Shyly, perfect answer!
I do a lot of artsy fartsy stuff, but I dont puch it here on MM. Because this is a iste for models and fashion.
The OP should try one of those avant garde outlets in SF maybe.
Shyly , do you keep the vibe out of sight!
Photographer
artist
Posts: 294
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
Why does it seem that many models on this site think they are professional enough to charge for their time? I suppose, I don't understand how models with bad images in their portfolios won't accept help to make their portfolios better. I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay. If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this?? Actually, you ask this in a slightly different way that others have.
Everyone has the right to charge for their time. There are apprenticships, paid apprenticeships, and internships w/ and w/o stipend, etc.
The issue is HOW MUCH, and when.
It used to be photographers trying to get the models to pose for free, or for future considerations. Now it seems most photographers griping about the modesl not wanting to pay them.
I guess it is all on which side of the street you are standing at the moment, and how you perceive the upcoming relationship (since every "shoot" is really different).
I don't know why photographers won't waste a roll of film on a new model, just to see. You could be suprised. Now, it's not even film, it's just a few inconvenienced electrons.
I *DO* know why models don't want to work for free, and I agree with some of it. I don't agree with other parts of it. The photographer *is* using their time, and is getting a release (or should be). The model is over and done when she leaves, the photographer still has all the images. It's not a really balanced relationship in some ways. In others, it is far over swayed in one direction or the other.
So, really:
Photographers, don't pass up the chance to work with a model especailly for TFP. Doesn't have to be a big production, but you might find you and she get along really well, and your photos of her are so far superior to anything else she has, you wouldn't have recognized her.
Models, don't pass up TFP shoots with photographers just for some sort of principle, and for gosh sakes, don't say "I only do nudes when I'm paid." Kiss of death, girls. You might find that you learn something, and get something out of it, perhaps a LTR that becomes quite profitable and/or rewarding.
Sure, you can't do EVERY TFP or even every paid op that comes along, but passing up things because "I don't do ___
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
if you are NOT used to rejection in this business, then you better get used to it quickly.
I dont to TFP(never say never) so I shoot models a lot less than most photogs here.
People either like your style or they dont.
Model are selling themselves(no working girls comment) so they need specifc pics.
The agencies ask for specifc types of photos so it has to fit the purpose.
Photographer
Aesthetics Photography
Posts: 217
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Shyly wrote:
What youâre doing isnât what they want to do, and they donât feel it will improve their portfolio. Youâve got a lot of snapshots of feet and most of your models are missing their heads. I would quote you my hourly rate, too. What you have displayed there wouldn't help a model get future work. You haven't demonstrated the ability to deliver clear, well lit headshots, or the fashion or casual work that you say in your bio you like to do. Iâm genuinely not trying to be mean, but what you have posted is not what most of the models here on MM are targeting. Are you using fetish specific sites to search for models? You might have more luck there. To respond to part of your explanation......I have images on my portfolio "without heads" because it was requested by the model. I have many models I have worked with over the years that enjoy doing foot work or nude work, but they ask I don't show their face. I always respect any requests from models I work with and if they are not comfortable with their face showing on some images then I don't post the images with their face showing. Simple issue of respect, honesty and trust I have built over the years with the models I work with.
Model
Cynthia Marie
Posts: 33
Highland, New York, US
It seems like everyone calls themselves a "model" these days. Even people that have never had work and have crappy photos. A fashion show at a local mall does not qualify anyone as a model. It's also rediculous that these same girls are expecting to be on the cover of InStyle or Voque in a months time. They should be greatful that people are willing to do TFP shoots. I think that people should learn at least a little bit about the business before coming on here or calling themselves a "MODEL"!
Model
The_N_Word
Posts: 5067
New York, New York, US
Cynthia Marie wrote:
It seems like everyone calls themselves a "model" these days. Even people that have never had work and have crappy photos. A fashion show at a local mall does not qualify anyone as a model. It's also rediculous that these same girls are expecting to be on the cover of InStyle or Voque in a months time. They should be greatful that people are willing to do TFP shoots. I think that people should learn at least a little bit about the business before coming on here or calling themselves a "MODEL"! This is a whole other topic, also discussed many, many times.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
The answer is really quite simple. Every business changes as technology does. Your task is to recognize the changes and implement your own changes in how you do business (what you are selling) and roll with the changes. Or get left in the dust, whining about how it used to be. Right now, I am selling table top happy hour menus for local pubs featuring great looking models. This alone allows me to justify paying a model.
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4159
Deming, New Mexico, US
Its the internet. What do you expect? bs
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4159
Deming, New Mexico, US
PINK FLOYD. enought said. bs
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
bobby sargent wrote:
John. Its the internet. What do you expect? bs I expect people to recognize the changes and come up with a way to deal with them. It's really not that hard to do. I've managed by simply changing my business plan from the traditional to what most people consider unconventional. But it works for me.
Photographer
Marvin Dockery
Posts: 2243
Alcoa, Tennessee, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
Why does it seem that many models on this site think they are professional enough to charge for their time? I suppose, I don't understand how models with bad images in their portfolios won't accept help to make their portfolios better. I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay. If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this?? The answer is that they need gas and burger money today, Not next year, when the new boyfriend or husband will not let them pose for you.
Most are not real world models, and have money in savings accounts, or watch the stock market every day.
Give me more of these young starting models with a dream, and a need to make some money.
And unless you earn 75 percent, or more, of your income from your photography sales , you are not a professional.
Photographer
Harrison Sweazea
Posts: 986
Jefferson City, Missouri, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
To respond to part of your explanation......I have images on my portfolio "without heads" because it was requested by the model. I have many models I have worked with over the years that enjoy doing foot work or nude work, but they ask I don't show their face. I always respect any requests from models I work with and if they are not comfortable with their face showing on some images then I don't post the images with their face showing. Simple issue of respect, honesty and trust I have built over the years with the models I work with. What Shyly said rings true, though...maybe the models just don't like your work. The ones in your port seem terribly underexposed, a little amateurish and a bit lifeless.
Model
Cynthia Marie
Posts: 33
Highland, New York, US
Nerlande wrote:
This is a whole other topic, also discussed many, many times. I know....Isn't it a shame?!
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
To respond to part of your explanation......I have images on my portfolio "without heads" because it was requested by the model. I have many models I have worked with over the years that enjoy doing foot work or nude work, but they ask I don't show their face. I always respect any requests from models I work with and if they are not comfortable with their face showing on some images then I don't post the images with their face showing. Simple issue of respect, honesty and trust I have built over the years with the models I work with. That is great, but this is how you are marketing yourself to the MM community. Many models are going to look and say "I don't need those kind of shots" and pass...
they are not often going to go out on a limb and shoot for free hoping they will get an image they can use.
Photographer
photoguy42
Posts: 2925
Toledo, Ohio, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
Why does it seem that many models on this site think they are professional enough to charge for their time? I suppose, I don't understand how models with bad images in their portfolios won't accept help to make their portfolios better. I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay. If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this?? Because the perves, losers, and wankers on myspace tell them they're so sexy in those pictures they don't think they need to do anything better?
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8842
Delphos, Ohio, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this?? Have you considered that your work might be the problem?
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay.
I guess I'm confused.......Can anyone answer this?? Generally speaking, this would indicate to me:
a) they don't care for your photos or attitude, or
b) they want your money more than your photos
The solution is to keep working hard, keep improving, and keep doing the best work you can for the people who respond to you.
Don't get frustrated with the women who don't throw themselves at your feet. It's not an insult .. it's just a missmatch in points of view.
At any level, there is no need for a photogapher to pay a model, just as there is no need for a model to pay a photographer. Of course, some do, and it works both ways. There is plenty of TFP around on both sides of the equation for people who want help improving themselves.
Just go with the flow. Do the best you can.
There is an ocean of opportunity out there for all of us.
Click Hamilton
http://www.pbase.com/click_hamilton/photos
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18922
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US
I bet a lot of models wonder why some photographers think they are good enough to charge too.
this question is asked every week and the answer is always the same
bob
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
Robert Helm wrote:
I bet a lot of models wonder why some photographers think they are good enough to charge too.
this question is asked every week and the answer is always the same
bob What we think is almost irrelevant. What we sell is a measure of this. Same goes for models or any other product in the marketplace.
Uncle Click
Photographer
Benjamen McGuire
Posts: 3991
Portland, Oregon, US
Most newbies just want to feel pretty and make a few bucks, serious models won't work tfp/cd with you because your photos are really really bad.
Don't hate me for being blunt and honest.
Photographer
Aesthetics Photography
Posts: 217
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Cspine wrote:
Most newbies just want to feel pretty and make a few bucks, serious models won't work tfp/cd with you because your photos are really really bad.
Cspine......I can accept negative comments on my images, knowing I have personally assisted many models with their careers when they used my images. I will bite my tongue after I reviewed your portfolio, since I am a mellow individual and look past conflicts in life. Have a fantastic day and good luck with your future work!
Model
shellyradley
Posts: 1201
Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
hmmm
i have been told that I SHOULD charge but I am not intersetd in it....
hmm maybe a different aspect of looking at a model thats not in it for the money.
and I am sorry to blow me own trumpet but I am pretty but not stuck up so maybe again i do not fall into that catagory...
oh dear there goes shelly's wild thinking again
xx shelly xx
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
Why does it seem that many models on this site think they are professional enough to charge for their time? Because they are not machine operators. It's their look that makes them marketable, not how long they've been doing it or whether they can wear the "professional" label.
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
I suppose, I don't understand how models with bad images in their portfolios won't accept help to make their portfolios better. I have contacted models offering them assistance with dynamic images to enhance their portfolios and they either don't respond or inform me they only work for pay. Maybe they don't value what you're offering as much as you do.
Aesthetics Photography wrote:
If these models are seriously interested in making modeling a career.... Wouldn't it make sense to make your portfolio look better, for no cost, if the opportunity allowed. And you're going to do that for them?
Photographer
Doug Harvey
Posts: 1055
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Just four times a week? Oh, it must have slowed down. No Kidding!
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Apart from anything else WHY do you care?
If they dont get back to you or say no or say"this much" then just move on and find models that will instead of being negative about those who will not.
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
shelly1982 wrote:
i have been told that I SHOULD charge but I am not intersetd in it.... I'm just the opposite. I demand that models accept cash when they work with me. And if their rates are too low, I demand they take more. I won't have any model undercuttig my rates...
-Dave
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Dave Krueger wrote:
I'm just the opposite. I demand that models accept cash when they work with me. And if their rates are too low, I demand they take more. I won't have any model undercuttig my rates...
-Dave Ahh come on
Enough for a pint and a fish supper and that should be enough for any lass surely
oh and her busfare home 
Photographer
Aesthetics Photography
Posts: 217
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
It's extremely interesting to read the different comments that have been given to this question. The wide range of thoughts really surprised me.
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