Click Hamilton wrote:
"I don't do (fill in the blank) ... so DON'T ASK! (neener-neener)"

"don't waste my time or yours" ..... [you a$$hole] (implied)

Why do people say these kinds of things in their portfolios and descriptions?

Either to :

A) Just bug you.

or

B) Because they're sick of getting said offers or having their time wasted.

Elektro_Kandy wrote:
[Either to :

A) Just bug you.

or

B) Because they're sick of getting said offers or having their time wasted.

Just seems like a funny way of selling something. It says more about the person writing their presentation than some anonymous public or target market they are trying to engage.

I feel guilty or insulted just reading this, and the writers don't even know who I am.

So what should my reaction be?

"I don't do bitches, so leave me alone"

That's just the way it makes me feel, and I don't know them either.

My rhetorical question is about Communication Arts and engaging our customers.

Just thinking :-)

Elektro_Kandy wrote:

Either to :

A) Just bug you.

or

B) Because they're sick of getting said offers or having their time wasted.

More likely, they are just rude, abrasive, and lacking in social skills.

They are probably immature, socially inept, and dealing with "issues" that run deep -- too deep to want to mess with.

They have an axe to grind, and should be ignored by *everyone*.

Since "porn" is not allowed on this site, putting that in your profile is just ignorant.

Actually, putting that in a profile *anywhere* is simply ignorant.  Which is why they should be *totally* ignored, not worked with, and maybe they'll go away.

Anyone asking you if you do porn isn't going to bother reading your profile anyway, so why annoy those who might otherwise have contacted you?

What people don't realize, is that what you put in your profile says *worlds* about you.  If it gives a bad impression -- like "I don't do porn" -- then they won't bother to ask you to show up for that other job.  They'll look for someone with a more professional, friendly, mature and *decent* attitude.

Agree or disagree.  You never know how many *DON'T* contact you   But when your profile sucks and is rude, it probably out-numbers the contacts you do get by 10-20 to 1.

Scott
aka Bodyartist
Bodyart.com

Click Hamilton wrote:
"I don't do (fill in the blank) ... so DON'T ASK! (neener-neener)"

"don't waste my time or yours" ..... [you a$$hole] (implied)

Why do people say these kinds of things in their portfolios and descriptions?

Means don't send me an e-mail asking for _______ because it is not offered.  I think it is reasonable and helps save time, bandwidth, and disappointment.  It is easy to state it as a general policy than to make someone feel that their request is being personally rejected.  Maybe it should just be an acronym IDDP (I Don't Do Porn)?

Elektro_Kandy wrote:
Either to :

A) Just bug you.

or

B) Because they're sick of getting said offers or having their time wasted.

Bodyartist wrote:
More likely, they are just rude, abrasive, and lacking in social skills.

They are probably immature, socially inept, and dealing with "issues" that run deep -- too deep to want to mess with.

Agree or disagree.  You never know how many *DON'T* contact you   But when your profile sucks and is rude, it probably out-numbers the contacts you do get by 10-20 to 1.

Scott
aka Bodyartist
Bodyart.com

Question:
So are you saying it would be better to not advise potential contacts of the type of work you are not willing to do?

Understanding that "porn" is not "allowed" within the realms of this site, but some may view distateful nudes in the same genre (not that that is correct), in which case is it not more a visual affirmation of their ignorance on the subject?  Or did you say that already?

Bodyartist wrote:
What people don't realize, is that what you put in your profile says *worlds* about you.

You win, Scott. That's exactly my point.

Thank you.

Click Hamilton, The Mentor, can now retire for the evening.

Jay Dezelic wrote:
Maybe it should just be an acronym IDDP (I Don't Do Porn)?

The problem is that somebody might think "IDDP" means "I Do D.P." Then they would be banned from the site.

Bodyartist wrote:
What people don't realize, is that what you put in your profile says *worlds* about you.  If it gives a bad impression -- like "I don't do porn" -- then they won't bother to ask you to show up for that other job.  They'll look for someone with a more professional, friendly, mature and *decent* attitude.

Hmm... Ok. I guess this is basic marketing 101.  Telling people what you don't do doesn't buy you much.  Good points.

JT Hodges wrote:

The problem is that somebody might think "IDDP" means "I Do D.P." Then they would be banned from the site.

What's wrong with Dr. Pepper?

MadamePsychosis wrote:
... girl with a vibrator.

Vibrators can certainly be used in art.  There are no stinking rules!

MadamePsychosis wrote:
...hell, id love to do D Brian Nelson porn!!! :-D

Uh, thanks, but maybe you have me confused with Melvin.  I do art - Melvin does porn.

Tax day!

-D

Jayne Jones wrote:
Question:
So are you saying it would be better to not advise potential contacts of the type of work you are not willing to do?

Not at all. It's always good to lay down the rules in a professional manner.

I'm just suggesting that these oh-so-common words come accross as an inexperienced model wannabee with a negative "F-you" attitude that gets them deleted or ignored by many people who might be worthy potential customers.

Slamming doors of opportunity in our own face.

"don't waste my time or yours" just seems like an odd way to introduce ourselves on a job application

Click Hamilton wrote:
Not at all. It's always good to lay down the rules in a professional manner.

I'm just suggesting that these oh-so-common words come accross as an inexperienced model wannabee with a negative "F-you" attitude that gets them deleted or ignored by many people who might be worthy potential customers.

Slamming doors of opportunity in our own face.

"don't waste my time or yours" just seems like an odd way to introduce ourselves on a job application

This was a good observation.  I think new models often look at the ports of other models to see what the should include.  The term is so common, that it is understandable that a newbie would assume that it is a standard statement that should be made.

However, I did a TFP shoot with a photog a couple weeks ago who had shot a lot of XXX porn in his career.  He had a very good technical understanding of lighting and camera techniques.  He was a real nice guy and not creepy at all. I had no problem working with him for the clothed shots I needed and plan to do more shoots with him when the weather warms up.

It's like bringing your American made car to a shop and saying that you do not want it worked on by a mechanic that does foreign cars.  Who cares?  If he/she is a good mechanic, then you are getting the work you need.  You're not agreeing to marry the person.

"Porn" is also a subjective term.  By stating "I don't do porn" could really be implying to some in the most conservative sense: "I don't work with photographers who have ever shot a nude".  Which is entirely the wrong message.

I put this standard statement in my port when I first signed up on MM, I did not realize that it might offend some otherwise talented photogs.  So good observation made by Click!  I have removed the cliche statement from my port.  I will just let my images represent the kind of work I do.

I can only assume that at one, there must have been a lot of requests made of models on MM to do porn or the statement would have never gotten so popular.

WhiteBears Visions wrote:
When they say "So don't waste my time!' it becomes rude.

It reads even worse.

However-if they had done nudes once or had it listed as a possibility or not mentioned and every Email they get is a 'Wanna ride my orgasm machine baby???' type thing it might really turn them off.

Then, either deal with the flood of wanna bes (which won't be put off by reading the profile anyway) or risk losing jobs.

model I photoed Thurs had artistic nudes listed in her profile-says she was flooded with guys asking her to do nudes for them.   Really made her go 'Hmmm...".   I NEVER ask a model to do nudes-never mention it unless they inquire on a project where the project plainly states it involves nudes.

So this girl now says 'No nudes' because of the flood, however she wants to do them with me-at her request,  because I never asked even knowing she's willing.

Well, I would *NOT* work with her for *any* reason.  Once they post "no nudes" I'm not even going to waste my time, or deal with a model who sends privately "I only post that to weed out..."  Sorry.  Professional, upfront, and head-screwed-on-to-the-front.

I wouldn't *RISK* dealing with a model who posts one thing, then privately tells me another.  I could not substantiate that, *if* she decided to flake -- and they do. 

But beyond that, if people read their profiles, they'd be suprised how many people they turn away, rather than bring in. 

Your portfolio is supposed to speak EXACTLY what you are and are not interested in.  I see interesting portfolios, but if there are no nudes, or images that suggest they would do nudes, I move on.  Doesn't matter in the least if the profile says they do nudes, art nudes, "select photographers" or whatever.  It's money where your mouth is.

If you say "I don't do porn" well, that's telling EVERYONE you think that they are, or might, or will ask you to do it.  *AVOID* THOSE MODELS! (And photographers).

We state we don't do "X" type images, and prefer models who have not done them.  We can't define "porn" so why bother?  I used to list on the model searches and photographer submissions "No animals, insertions or children"  That seemed to cover pretty much anything, since I could always say that "finger" was an insertion.  For *some* groups we had to get as specific as no "spreads or pink" but that is all we ever had to do.  That was from a WIDE advertising to photographers and modesl who *did* work in the porn industry.

So, some girl who has a portfolio of 25 turtleneck sweaters, and eskimo pants *really* doesn't need to tell me she doesn't do porn, or nudes, or is the kind of model I'm looking for.  If she does, she gets a "black" mark, not just an ignore.

A model with topless images, clearly not doing full-nudes, *also* doesn't need to say anything, though "topless only" covers it (pardon the oxymoron) pretty well.

In fact, "No nudes" doesn't really mean much, since many of the girls are standing nude in the picture, they just have their nipples and pubes covered.  They usually don't mind or consider the butt as "nude" since most bikinis show more than any studio shots usually do.

All this is well and good.  You can say what you want, but remember how it READS.

Your *BEST* advertising on-line is to have a good portfolio, and a reasonable profile.  A "professional" (for lack of a better word) photographer will look at your images, decide if you do the sorts of work he's interestested in, and if you have the look they want.  Then, they will read your profile to see if there are any restrictions or other information.

It's at *THIS* point you *LOSE* your jobs!  You don't get them.  You got them when they looked at your portfolio!  You lost them when you opened your mouth, or let your fingers detach from your brain.

Be adult.  If you *really* don't have any problem getting nude in the studio, but don't want your nipples or pubes to show, SAY IT!  You'll probably get 10x more serious offers than "I don't do nudes" or "IMPLIED NUDES ONLY."  You are *NOT* implying, you *ARE* nude.  You just don't want "privates" to show in the pictures.

We called these "Nude-but-not-nude" which while long, *was* very accurate, and *EVERYONE* was on the same page with it!

Most people's profiels are *BAD* even if they are filled with great pictures.   

As pointed out, it's all "Marketing 101" and 99.9999% of people do it badly.

Scott
aka Bodyartist

PS:  After 30+ years, my profile, portfolio, etc says exactly what I want it to.  It screens out almost everyone, but those who do make it through have a higher "hit" rate with working with me, and LONG TERM work.  Sure, I probably lose a few, but hey, that's life.  I'm content with quality vs quantity.  And, I'm more interested in a good artistic and philosophic fit.  Having a profile and portfolio that invites *everyone* to contact you is *NOT* doing it right.  You waste a lot of time dealing with stuff you are not interested in, and with a lot of people you have no desire to work with.

KayleeT wrote:
I post it because im tired of ppl contacting me seeing that i do nudes and then assuming i will do masturbation or soft touching videos and crap.....so i simply put ..I dont do porn of any kind so dont ask!

That's cool.  But I, and others, wouldn't wast our time contacting you for nude, or other, work.  You come across (in this instance too) as having "issues."

Sorry, but that's how it _READS_

Right or wrong, you are probably losing more jobs by insulting potential "customers" (I guess?) than by leaving it out.

It's a lot easier to ignore the ignorant requests, than to show you have "issues" even if they are frustration and abrasiveness. 

First impressions count, and "I don't do porn" sounds *really*  *really*  *B*A*D*.

It's defensive, arrogant, insulting, and rude.  Without inflection or context that's how it reads.

Scott
aka Bodyartist

SKPhoto wrote:
Part of the problem is the need for an exacting definition of what "porn" is.

Very true!

A recent communication with a model went something like this -

Model - "I do artistic nudes, but I don't do porn so don't ask.  Here's a link to my portfolio."

Me - I click the link, see her port.  My reaction is - "Lady, I don't know what you call porn, but after looking at your port, trust me, you do porn."

LOL!! (see below, link coming up!)

Because of this I guess my opinion is that a model has perfect a right to say "no nudes", "no inplied nudes" etc.  But beyond that their just proclaiming "I'm a good girl!!! Really I am."  And thrown is a dash of false pretentious modesty/you've offended my feminine dignity/you're a pervert to boot.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." , http://www.allshakespeare.com/quotes/287

Look at a photographers work, decide if you're ok with the style.  If he/she asks you to do something your uncomfortable with, "just say no."  How hard is that?  Are you an adult professional, if so than act like one, or are you a little girl?

Read my thread here:

https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=31848

Sometimes, even that doesn't play out as you'd expect

Scott
aka Bodyartist

I am willing to do most types of work, but until I am more knowledgeable within the industry, I'd like to say no full nudity at this point, but anything else is fair game with me!

Now *THAT* is about the most professional, and pleasant way of putting it I've seen yet, and this from a YOUNG person, new to it all.

Scott
aka Bodyartist.

Click Hamilton wrote:
Just seems like a funny way of selling something. It says more about the person writing their presentation than some anonymous public or target market they are trying to engage.

I feel guilty or insulted just reading this, and the writers don't even know who I am.

So what should my reaction be?

"I don't do bitches, so leave me alone"

That's just the way it makes me feel, and I don't know them either.

My rhetorical question is about Communication Arts and engaging our customers.

Just thinking :-)

Thank Gawd someone wrote something about this because it was starting to annoy the heck out of me too. I think you summarized it well, btw. Half the so-called models who write this I think: "Who would want to shoot you nude anyway!?" There's a lot of wanna-be divas running around MM and internet modeling has spawned its own unique brand of bitchy behavior, only one insignia of which is the dreaded "I don't do porn, so don't ask!"

Up next for consideration: "Paid assignments only, I don't do TFP!" (this from models who have nary a tear sheet to be found) and "I always bring someone with me, NO EXCEPTIONS."

Click Hamilton wrote:
"I don't do (fill in the blank) ... so DON'T ASK! (neener-neener)"

"don't waste my time or yours" ..... [you a$$hole] (implied)

Why do people say these kinds of things in their portfolios and descriptions?

Because they copied it from someone elses site.

Bodyartist wrote:
...they are just rude, abrasive, and lacking in social skills.  .....probably immature, socially inept, and dealing with "issues" that run deep -- too deep to want to mess with. .... have an axe to grind, ...

Scott
aka Bodyartist
Bodyart.com

Dang Scott!!! You are getting all that from "I don't do porn so don't ask"?

William Coleman wrote:
Porn is too hard to light.  The sex organs are in cracks and crevices.  During actual sex, it's even worse. Too much work.

Ain't it the truth!

Gregory Garecki wrote:

Dang Scott!!! You are getting all that from "I don't do porn so don't ask"?

Yeah, actually I am.

That's how it comes across, and reads in 99.99 of the profiles that have it in it.  I haven't read one, that it comes across as mature, intelligent, respectful, and as a useful piece of info that gives me warm fuzzies about the potential relationship with this person.

Until I came to this site, for almost 30 years, I *NEVER* had a model tell me that, or write it on her model-info form, for any reason.  None what so ever.  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.  Nunca.  Whatever.   


Scott
aka Bodyartist

Gregory Garecki wrote:
Dang Scott!!! You are getting all that from "I don't do porn so don't ask"?

Some people read a lot more than what's written; some read less.

The OP saw a "(neener-neener)" and an implied "[you a$$hole]".

I, being too lazy to jump to conclusions or exercise telepathy, merely saw "I don't do porn so don't ask".