Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
About a year ago, I worked with an Austin Photographer for a body paint shoot. He paid me for the shoot and I signed an agreement that basically stated that he had the rights to all the images but he would give me a copy of the images from the shoot on CD.
I emailed him a handful of times asking when I could expect the CD as it had been several months since the shoot and I hadn't heard anything from him. He stated that he was waiting on the person who was doing the back drops for the photos to get them done so that he could insert the scene in to images. He wanted me to have not only the raw images but some of the completed works as well. Two more months pass, nothing. I email him again and he responds with having a family crisis and he would get right on it and have it to me in two weeks. I waited three, still NOTHING. I tried contacting a few more times and finally when I demanded my CD and told him I was sick of getting the run around, he sent me three images that STILL had no background in them. The files were also so large, I couldn't get them to open for the longest time. They are basically useless to me for the most part. He said he'd have the remaining to me on CD soon.
What can I do to get these images in to my possession? This photog came highly recommended by a gf of mine. She liked working with him and he was very "on it" with their stuff.
SO Frustrated!
Model
Jay Dezelic
Posts: 5029
Seattle, Washington, US
First of all, if you were paid for the shoot, why does the photographer owe you additional compensation? Was that part of your initial agreement? (Check the model release you signed and see if photography was included as part of the compensation) If not, it is a free country and the photographer runs a privately held business that simply may choose not to give or sell additional photography to you.
Second, if the photographer gave you files that were too big to open, that is your problem not his/hers. Get a computer with more memory. I would always rather have the largest files vs. the smaller ones because they have more detail. - You can always reduce the size later for whatever you need them for.
Maybe the photog just wanted to give you his best work vs letting an untrained person such as your self select the images that best represented his work? Often, there are only a few really great photos (more or less) that come out of a shoot.
Photographer
Angelo Lorenzo
Posts: 365
Simi Valley, California, US
If your release/contract states that you'll recieve a copy of the photos from the shoot then what I would do is send a nice typed letter to him explaining that a unsatisfactory amount of time has gone by and you would like a copy of all the shots otherwise you'll persue legal action. Then on the bottom of the letter CC it and list a few local attourneys.
Doing this will probably scare him enough to be prompt with delivering photos without ever spending a dime on an attourney.
If on the otherhand there never said anything about you recieving copies in a contract/release then you have no real legal right to demand copies for free. In this case just let sleeping dogs lie, think of him as kind of a jerk, and don't work with him again.
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Terra,
This is pretty much a "standard" when working with net models/photographers. At least you got PAID and received some of the images. More often than not, the models "TFP/TFCD" and get NOTHING.
BTW, if the shot he sent was the one with you painted as a tiger, that should be good enough. It's an interesting shot and if you are "nice" and if he ever finishes the image...you may have something very "cool" to put into your portfolio.
In the meantime, I'd just shrug it off and move on. You have a look that some on here would be willing to pay to photograph...so I'd approach it from that angle. Charge enough to make it worth your time and don't worry about receiving images. If the photographer gives you any images afterwards, consider it icing on the cake.
Most "pro" models don't expect anything other than to be PAID. Getting anything else is considered a bonus.
- Denoy
Photographer
Rich Mohr
Posts: 1843
Chicago, Illinois, US
Jay Dezelic wrote:
First of all, if you were paid for the shoot, why does the photographer owe you additional compensation? Was that part of your initial agreement? (Check the model release you signed and see if photography was included as part of the compensation) If not, it is a free country and the photographer runs a privately held business that simply may choose not to give or sell additional photography to you.
Second, if the photographer gave you files that were too big to open, that is your problem not his/hers. Get a computer with more memory. I would always rather have the largest files vs. the smaller ones because they have more detail. - You can always reduce the size later for whatever you need them for.
Maybe the photog just wanted to give you his best work vs letting an untrained person such as your self select the images that best represented his work? Often, there are only a few really great photos (more or less) that come out of a shoot. Very well said. 
Rich
Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
Our signed agreement stated that I would get a copy of the finished images he selected on CD. That's why I feel I'm owed this "compensation". The images he gave me were unfinished. They are missing the background. I would only use photos that the photographer had ok'd. Of course model and photographer both want to display their best work....I get that. Other girls from the same shoot have received their images, totally finished. I just don't get what his deal is. If he was unhappy with the outcome of the shoot, then simply tell me that. All too often we hear photographers bitching about flaky models but it works both ways, unfortunately. Photographers want a model who is going to show up on time and ready to work with a great attitude. Is it too much to ask for the same in return? I don't think so.
Model
CarlottaChampagne
Posts: 224
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I had this same problem occur about 8 months ago. I recieved 3 images in email, and that was all. I sent many emails, but always getting the run around. Eventually he just stopped answering my emails all together.
I basically have left it at this...its not worth fighting about (especially since I dont have a copy of the release) so I will just give him negative references when models ask me about my experience with him. Sure, it seems kind of harsh, but why should some other girl have to go through this same kind of experience?
Photographer
EL PIC
Posts: 2835
Austin, Indiana, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
Our signed agreement stated that I would get a copy of the finished images he selected on CD. Best to ask and when you become fustrated with talk and no action ...
its only $50.00 to file in small claims court. If u have that signed agreement you might consider. Talk always gets more attenion when backed up with such filling.
E L
Model
Jay Dezelic
Posts: 5029
Seattle, Washington, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
Our signed agreement stated that I would get a copy of the finished images he selected on CD. That's why I feel I'm owed this "compensation". The images he gave me were unfinished. They are missing the background. I would only use photos that the photographer had ok'd. Of course model and photographer both want to display their best work....I get that. Other girls from the same shoot have received their images, totally finished. I just don't get what his deal is. If he was unhappy with the outcome of the shoot, then simply tell me that. All too often we hear photographers bitching about flaky models but it works both ways, unfortunately. Photographers want a model who is going to show up on time and ready to work with a great attitude. Is it too much to ask for the same in return? I don't think so. Were the images shot against a bluescreen/greenscreen background? If they were shot against white or black, he/she might be finding it difficult to separate the background properly. - so it may not be about you at all, it could just be that the photog did not get shots that would work well for background replacement. Making realistic composites is not easy if the photography is not shot to make that happen. The result of bad composites could be less then what the photog or you would want to show. If the agreement said "finished images", did it mean finished as in basic correction, or did it mean finished image composites?
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
Our signed agreement stated that I would get a copy of the finished images he selected on CD. There's the loophole that frees him of any further obligation. He provided an image. It's in your portfolio. And it's very impressive, I might add. That shot alone got me thinking about booking you for a paid shoot.
(I'm assuming the tiger bodypaint is what you're refering to)
Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
Thank you for pointing out alternatives as to why I have not received the images. I appreciate that. Thank you for the compliments as well.
If something like that were the case, then I wish he'd just be upfront and honest. Regardless of his reasoning, honesty is always appreciated.
Hell, I'd even take just SEEING the pictures. That paint took way too long to get off to not see the finished product!
Such is life.
Photographer
Allure by LH Taylor
Posts: 633
Austin, Texas, US
Terra Michelle,
I'm surprised at the lack of empathy you've received thus far. Maybe I'm too new to the professional scene, but I don't see ANY reason why a photographer (or model) shouldn't be held accountable to the verbal/written agreement or even the minimal standards of common decency. I always ensure my models get more than what they agreed to in a timely (two weeks) and courteous manner.
Paying a model doesn't preclude a photographer from being polite (which I translate as "being a professional"). If there are things going on in one's life, at least let the model know so she isn't left wondering whether you're a flake. Additionally, if one agrees (especially in writing) to provide you with a CD of pre- and post-edits, then for God's sake provide them.
-Lance
[edit] P.S. I come to Texas on business from time to time, and I visit family in Austin each time. Maybe I can't do bodypaint, but I'd certainly provide you with a TFP/CD session that is courteous and with results that are timely. Let me know if you're interested.
Photographer
MartinCoatesIV
Posts: 450
Panama City Beach, Florida, US
trajedi wrote:
I had this same problem occur about 8 months ago. I recieved 3 images in email, and that was all. I sent many emails, but always getting the run around. Eventually he just stopped answering my emails all together.
I basically have left it at this...its not worth fighting about (especially since I dont have a copy of the release) so I will just give him negative references when models ask me about my experience with him. Sure, it seems kind of harsh, but why should some other girl have to go through this same kind of experience? Always get a copy of anything you sign. Thats just smart business.
Martin IV
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
Our signed agreement stated that I would get a copy of the finished images he selected on CD. That's why I feel I'm owed this "compensation". The images he gave me were unfinished. They are missing the background. I would only use photos that the photographer had ok'd. Of course model and photographer both want to display their best work....I get that. Other girls from the same shoot have received their images, totally finished. I just don't get what his deal is. If he was unhappy with the outcome of the shoot, then simply tell me that. All too often we hear photographers bitching about flaky models but it works both ways, unfortunately. Photographers want a model who is going to show up on time and ready to work with a great attitude. Is it too much to ask for the same in return? I don't think so. Does HE have any finished images? If not, I hope you'll understand why you don't either.
Photographer
Forget Me Not Photograp
Posts: 12
Columbus, Ohio, US
Have you heard of a 12 guage shotgun? That tube looks aweful big when you're looking down the wrong end of it! However, that may be the wrong approach in today's society of sissy men. On the legal side of it, you have caustion (Standing) in a court of law, if he did in fact send you a copy, or two, of the shoot. In small claims court the judge would see that as partial admission and void of agreement fulfilment. You will have to make sure the judge understands how differently models can be compensated for their time. I wish you well and hope you get your copies.
Photographer
Richard Tallent
Posts: 7136
Beaumont, Texas, US
Image correction isn't the fun part of photography (more of a necessary evil), but being a professional is all about taking care of business before you move on to the next "fun" part.
I'll be the first to admit I have thousands of unfinished RAW files (including hundreds shot in Austin while we fled Rita here in Beaumont), but not shots of paying clients or TFP/TFCD collaborators.
BTW, the tiger shot alone is one you should be proud of, kudos to both you and the MUA.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
About a year ago, I worked with an Austin Photographer for a body paint shoot. He paid me for the shoot and I signed an agreement that basically stated that he had the rights to all the images but he would give me a copy of the images from the shoot on CD. I'm probably in the minority but I'm having a hard time sympathizing w/ you. If he paid you, the money is your payment. Anything you receive beyond that is just an added bonus.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Farenell Photography wrote:
I'm probably in the minority but I'm having a hard time sympathizing w/ you. If he paid you, the money is your payment. Anything you receive beyond that is just an added bonus. I agree with you. Except, that if part of the agreement was that she would receive image(s) then he should fulfill that part of the agreement. That said, it appears that he did provide an image. So therefore his obligation has been fulfilled. It really all depends what exactly the agreement says. Something none of us have access to. Further, the one image she did receive is pretty kick ass, if you ask me.
Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
Farenell Photography wrote:
I'm probably in the minority but I'm having a hard time sympathizing w/ you. If he paid you, the money is your payment. Anything you receive beyond that is just an added bonus. I never asked for anyone's sympathy, nor did I expect it. I just wasn't sure if I was wrong to expect to receive the FINISHED images from the shoot. Our agreement plainly stated that I was being compensated monetarily for my time and would ALSO RECEIVE THE FINISHED IMAGES ON CD from the shoot. I'm not sure what is so hard for some of the readers to understand. Yes, I did receive three images from the shoot via email. No, they are not finished images. Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I happy with the images I did receive? Yes. Would I like to see some of the finished product? Well, yeah! Wouldn't you?
I apologize if I was wrong to assume that I was allowed to ask questions concerning modeling here. I'm sorry for being curious if it was normal for someone not to hold up to their end of a signed agreement in this industry. I'm sure if I had defaulted on my end of the agreement, ya'll would all sympathize with me and tell the photographer that he was owed nothing more than me to stand in front of the camera and allow him to photograph me. I could of stood there and done absolutely nothing...but hell, at least he got a shot of me naked in body paint. Right?
Anyhow. Maryland photographer: I'd be more than happy to discuss a TFCD shoot with you...so long as we both get what we agree to ;-) I promise not to stand there doing absolutely nothing as long as you promise to give me a CD of the images you feel showcase OUR best work! Deal?!
Thank you to those who have commented on liking the photo, I appreciate the kudos.
Photographer
RED Photographic
Posts: 1458
I normally hand out cd's of sessions to anyone who'll take them. I think it's good publicity for me.
One thought, they guy might've messed up the session, and be embarrassed. Or, perhaps, the person doing the image manipulation either didn't deliver the goods, or the results weren't as good as promised. I'm not trying to excuse the guy's actions, he should've said if there was a problem, but there might be mitigating circumstances.
I am a photographer, after all, not a model.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
He paid me for the shoot and I signed an agreement that basically stated that he had the rights to all the images but he would give me a copy of the images from the shoot on CD. Sounds to me, he filled his end of the bargain.
Terra Michelle wrote:
I emailed him a handful of times asking when I could expect the CD as it had been several months since the shoot and I hadn't heard anything from him. He stated that he was waiting on the person who was doing the back drops for the photos to get them done so that he could insert the scene in to images. When youâre dealing with a 3rd person, you often have to deal with their priorities in addition to his and yours.
Terra Michelle wrote:
Two more months pass, nothing. I email him again and he responds with having a family crisis Terra Michelle wrote:
I tried contacting a few more times and finally when I demanded my CD and told him I was sick of getting the run around, he sent me three images that STILL had no background in them. At this point, Iâd say youâre being pushy. Whoâs to say that he isnât having a family crisis? Step into his shoes for a minute. You borrow a friendâs book, start reading it, and then find out your mom had a heart attack. Donât you think returning that book would be the fartherest thing from your mind?
Terra Michelle wrote:
he sent me three images that STILL had no background in them. Terra Michelle wrote:
I never asked for anyone's sympathy, nor did I expect it. I just wasn't sure if I was wrong to expect to receive the FINISHED images from the shoot. Our agreement plainly stated that I was being compensated monetarily for my time and would ALSO RECEIVE THE FINISHED IMAGES ON CD from the shoot. 1. He sent you the images but neglected to slap them onto a CD. Fine, thatâs an honest mistake on his part. But is it really that hard to burn them onto a disc yourself?
2. Sometimes how we visualize something in our heads are not the same as what weâre able to produce. This kinda stuff happens all the time.
Terra Michelle wrote:
I apologize if I was wrong to assume that I was allowed to ask questions concerning modeling here. I'm sorry for being curious if it was normal for someone not to hold up to their end of a signed agreement in this industry. I'm sure if I had defaulted on my end of the agreement, ya'll would all sympathize with me and tell the photographer that he was owed nothing more than me to stand in front of the camera and allow him to photograph me. I could of stood there and done absolutely nothing...but hell, at least he got a shot of me naked in body paint. Right?
Anyhow. Maryland photographer: I'd be more than happy to discuss a TFCD shoot with you...so long as we both get what we agree to ;-) I promise not to stand there doing absolutely nothing as long as you promise to give me a CD of the images you feel showcase OUR best work! Deal?! In the previous paragraph, you claim by not wanting anyoneâs sympathyâ¦yet you follow it up with paragraphs like the above.
You got a few (damn good, if you ask me) images. Heâs sent a CD (albeit not the pristine finished ones). Heâs given you (I think) plausible reasons for the delay.
When I get hassled from a model, she gets the bare miniumum AND take my sweet ass time getting them to her. Why go above and beyond when sheâs proved she isnât understanding and/or a joy to work with.
Model
sylvia
Posts: 197
Tucson, Arizona, US
While the photographer could be having any number of issues going on in his personal life, it hasn't been a few weeks, or even a few months, its been a year at this point. I was in a similar situation where I received nothing. I understood the photographer was busy and sent him very polite short emails every once in awhile. Each time he promised the pics would be out soon- no such luck. I eventually just decided to cut my losses. I am slightly disappointed and would have liked to see the images, but I'm not trying to sacrifice what has been a decent relationship with this very talented photographer so far by only contacting him to ask about my photos. I was paid, and people are just flaky sometimes. Things come up, and while I feel like someone should only allow personal issues to effect their professional work for so long, shit still happens.
While I know finished images were promised to you, and the situation is frustrating. At least you did get, what appears to be, one good useable image for your portfolio. I know its nice to see all the finished pics, but how many of those are you really going to include in your port anyway?
Also, with each photographer I work with, I try to make a point of asking them to give me a ballpark timeframe of how long it might take for me to get photos (if thats part of the deal)- nothing I'm going to hold them to by the hour or anything- just helps get things like that out in the open.
Maybe as another alternative you could get the contact info for the body painter and work with them again, to get more images with their work. I think the image is beautiful!
Photographer
S D Y W O R L D
Posts: 34
Brooklyn, Indiana, US
Thats why you sign a model release, for situations like this one. I think maybe Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown or Judge Mathis would rule in your favor if the release is solid and credable. They could knock this shit out in less that 10 minutes!
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
I just wasn't sure if I was wrong to expect to receive the FINISHED images from the shoot. Our agreement plainly stated that I was being compensated monetarily for my time and would ALSO RECEIVE THE FINISHED IMAGES ON CD from the shoot. I'm not sure what is so hard for some of the readers to understand. Yes, I did receive three images from the shoot via email. No, they are not finished images. Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I happy with the images I did receive? Yes. Would I like to see some of the finished product? Well, yeah! Wouldn't you? Terra,
I will repeat again. Does HE have any FINISHED images from the shoot he did with you. If he doesn't have any, that is why YOU don't have any. He can't very well give you something that he doesn't have.
Regards,
Denoy
Makeup Artist
benson
Posts: 173
Los Angeles, California, US
Farenell Photography wrote:
Terra Michelle wrote:
He paid me for the shoot and I signed an agreement that basically stated that he had the rights to all the images but he would give me a copy of the images from the shoot on CD. Sounds to me, he filled his end of the bargain.
Terra Michelle wrote:
I emailed him a handful of times asking when I could expect the CD as it had been several months since the shoot and I hadn't heard anything from him. He stated that he was waiting on the person who was doing the back drops for the photos to get them done so that he could insert the scene in to images. When youâre dealing with a 3rd person, you often have to deal with their priorities in addition to his and yours.
Terra Michelle wrote:
Two more months pass, nothing. I email him again and he responds with having a family crisis Terra Michelle wrote:
I tried contacting a few more times and finally when I demanded my CD and told him I was sick of getting the run around, he sent me three images that STILL had no background in them. At this point, Iâd say youâre being pushy. Whoâs to say that he isnât having a family crisis? Step into his shoes for a minute. You borrow a friendâs book, start reading it, and then find out your mom had a heart attack. Donât you think returning that book would be the fartherest thing from your mind?
Terra Michelle wrote:
he sent me three images that STILL had no background in them. Terra Michelle wrote:
I never asked for anyone's sympathy, nor did I expect it. I just wasn't sure if I was wrong to expect to receive the FINISHED images from the shoot. Our agreement plainly stated that I was being compensated monetarily for my time and would ALSO RECEIVE THE FINISHED IMAGES ON CD from the shoot. 1. He sent you the images but neglected to slap them onto a CD. Fine, thatâs an honest mistake on his part. But is it really that hard to burn them onto a disc yourself?
2. Sometimes how we visualize something in our heads are not the same as what weâre able to produce. This kinda stuff happens all the time.
In the previous paragraph, you claim by not wanting anyoneâs sympathyâ¦yet you follow it up with paragraphs like the above.
You got a few (damn good, if you ask me) images. Heâs sent a CD (albeit not the pristine finished ones). Heâs given you (I think) plausible reasons for the delay.
When I get hassled from a model, she gets the bare miniumum AND take my sweet ass time getting them to her. Why go above and beyond when sheâs proved she isnât understanding and/or a joy to work with. So what do you , oh wise one, think an appropriate amount of time is for getting a model the images that hse has been promised? (whether she was paid or not doesn't release him from his promise to supply FINISHED images....GET REAL)
I do hope that you set excellent expectations with yoru models......I mean "being pushy" is so arbitrary after all........I also hope that the models on MM who might want to work with you see your reply and realize that you're obviously a control freaking ego maniacal prick!
Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
DeBoer Photography wrote:
Terra,
I will repeat again. Does HE have any FINISHED images from the shoot he did with you. If he doesn't have any, that is why YOU don't have any. He can't very well give you something that he doesn't have.
Regards,
Denoy I understood it the first time you said it. I was just repeating my feelings for those who were confused as to why I would expect anything from the photographer since I was compensated monetarily and for those who just didn't understand why I would post such a question.
So again, thank you for pointing out alternative possibilities as to why I have not received the images. And again, if something like this is/was the case, then him being upfront about what was going on would of saved me from "harrassing" him.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
benson wrote:
So what do you , oh wise one, think an appropriate amount of time is for getting a model the images that hse has been promised? (whether she was paid or not doesn't release him from his promise to supply FINISHED images....GET REAL)
I do hope that you set excellent expectations with yoru models......I mean "being pushy" is so arbitrary after all........I also hope that the models on MM who might want to work with you see your reply and realize that you're obviously a control freaking ego maniacal prick! Wow...uh...for once I'm speechless.
I've been called many things in my life a "dumbass" has been one. A "loudmouth" has been another. Definately "orniery bastard." "Intimadating" has been another but a "control freaking ego maniacal prick"...have to admit that thats a new one.
As a previous poster has said, how can the photographer give her a finished product when he himself doesn't have the finished product. I've known a slew of well-known regional photographers take upwards to 6 months & beyond. If she likes his work bad enough as she claims to, she'd be paitient & wait. If she doesn't, she should call it a war-loss & move on.
Furthermore, come to think of it what is actually said at a shoot should be taken w/ a grain of salt. There have been countless times where either I or the model have expressed an interest in working together, only it never happens. Believe it or not, life does get in the way.
The fact of the matter is, the photographer in question could easily have blown her off but he didn't. He sent a few damn good images (one of which is damn good because its showing on her port). Is it up to what he was initially visualizing? No but does that mean its totally worthless, absolutely not.
But the underlying issue is this. If the model wants to be paid, we as photographers are under no obligation to give you images. If model wants the images, we are under no obligation to pay you. Any exceptions to this should have been discussed well before the shoot & I'm not getting any sense that it was.
Photographer
Nihilus
Posts: 10888
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Oh phooey on all of you. Just have some decent communication excercised with your co-artists so that everyone knows roughly (at least) how many images are to be expected...after how much post-processing...in what format...at what resolution...from which set.....
Seriously...do people expect their model releases to do the speaking for them or do some people not even bother talking to those they are collaborating with?
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
Yes, an agreement states the number of pics
1) I dont do TFP so I dont have that grey area problem
When I pay a model - I give a small number of edited photos so the model can use as promotional material. usuaully 4-5..
When the model pays me:
I give all the photos to the model.
There are 10 edited photos - model's choice - in the package.
More edits - I get paid per photograph
I have 7 day turn around for delivery.
If you want edited photos overnight - I get paid - like Fed Ex!
I really love reshooting models who go to a GWC and the come complain to me about quality. $extra for the sob story!
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
if something like this is/was the case, then him being upfront about what was going on would of saved me from "harrassing" him. Hi Terra,
I thought you had mentioned that he said he had family issues and whatnot came up. If he doesn't have the images done for himself either, then I hope you can understand/empathize with his situation.
I empathize with the photographer in question because, I, myself have "flaked" this past year. We had 5 hurricanes pass through our area with 3 direct "hits" (i.e,. house/car damage) and shortly after that, we had 4 deaths in the family that occurred within 6 weeks of each other. The deaths were not related but my Dad's death was indirectly related to one of the hurricanes. 
Things just sort of "sat" on this end this past year...and even now, we are still in recovery/mourning...
It has taken a year, and I am only just now beginning to rebuild and try to get things back to "business as usual." Even as I type this, I am still catching up on production of work shot well over a year ago...
If the photographer came highly recommended as you have said, "flakiness" would not be a normal thing for him. If he has already let you know his situation (i.e., the different things that kept coming up), I'm not sure what more he can tell you. He did the best he could and gave you what he had.
It would be different if he had the work you two shot completed and is using it but not providing it to you. I suspect HE doesn't have any "finished" images as well.
I know it "sucks" to be on the waiting end when someone else's life is "on hold" but there's not really much you can do other than cause even more trouble/worries for the person who is already going through a hard time. Either that, or you can show compassion and understanding and offer support in light of his situation.
I've been fortunate in that the people who worked with me have been kind and have not lost faith in me even though "disappearing" for a year would be indicative of "flaking out." However, they know me better.
Regards,
Denoy
Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
Farenell Photography wrote:
As a previous poster has said, how can the photographer give her a finished product when he himself doesn't have the finished product. I've known a slew of well-known regional photographers take upwards to 6 months & beyond. If she likes his work bad enough as she claims to, she'd be paitient & wait. If she doesn't, she should call it a war-loss & move on.
Furthermore, come to think of it what is actually said at a shoot should be taken w/ a grain of salt. There have been countless times where either I or the model have expressed an interest in working together, only it never happens. Believe it or not, life does get in the way.
The fact of the matter is, the photographer in question could easily have blown her off but he didn't. He sent a few damn good images (one of which is damn good because its showing on her port). Is it up to what he was initially visualizing? No but does that mean its totally worthless, absolutely not.
But the underlying issue is this. If the model wants to be paid, we as photographers are under no obligation to give you images. If model wants the images, we are under no obligation to pay you. Any exceptions to this should have been discussed well before the shoot & I'm not getting any sense that it was. Nobody but the photographer knows if he has the finished images. It's not about what was SAID at a shoot, it was about what was stated in a SIGNED AGREEMENT. I never asked to be paid. He approached me with this offer and I agreed. Did you bother to read anything I said beyond my original post?
DeBoer:
I am very empathetic to his "family crisis". I believe contacting him four times in the span of 12 months isn't unreasonable nor would I say it falls under the category of harrassement. I don't believe I said he came highly recommended. A gf of mine just said he was easy to work with and a nice guy. About six months after the shoot, I asked her if she had any issues getting her images from him. She laughed and said yeah, he's totally a flake sometimes and said she'd forgotten about that part. Lesson learned.
We all have issues. Communication is key. Openly and honestly discussing things helps immensely. Is it too much to ask for?
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
Nobody but the photographer knows if he has the finished images. It's not about what was SAID at a shoot, it was about what was stated in a SIGNED AGREEMENT. I never asked to be paid. He approached me with this offer and I agreed. Did you bother to read anything I said beyond my original post? Hate to break this to ya, sister but what you quoted *gasp* WAS NOT directed at you. Had you bothered to follow your own advice, you would have discovered it was a reply in reference to someone elseâs posting about a previous reply.
People have given you a litany of advice of what you should do, yet you keep asking the same questions presumablely because you didnât like the answer.
Jay Dezelic wrote:
if the photographer gave you files that were too big to open, that is your problem not his/hers. Get a computer with more memory. I would always rather have the largest files vs. the smaller ones because they have more detail. - You can always reduce the size later for whatever you need them for. DeBoer Photography wrote:
I'd just shrug it off and move on. You have a look that some on here would be willing to pay to photograph...so I'd approach it from that angle. Charge enough to make it worth your time and don't worry about receiving images. If the photographer gives you any images afterwards, consider it icing on the cake. as well asâ¦
DeBoer Photography wrote:
Most "pro" models don't expect anything other than to be PAID. Getting anything else is considered a bonus. Trajedi even suggests giving him a bumm reference if other models come looking to you.
E L Fanucchi wrote:
Best to ask and when you become fustrated with talk and no action ...
its only $50.00 to file in small claims court. If u have that signed agreement you might consider. Talk always gets more attenion when backed up with such filling. John Jebbia took the time to explain a possible loophole freeing him of any further obligation withâ¦
Terra Michelle wrote:
Our signed agreement stated that I would get a copy of the finished images he selected on CD. MartinCoatesIV reccemendsâ¦
MartinCoatesIV wrote:
Always get a copy of anything you sign. Thats just smart business. John Jebbia suggestsâ¦
John Jebbia wrote:
That said, it appears that he did provide an image. So therefore his obligation has been fulfilled. RED Photographic has a possible theory on why he hasnât âdeliveredâ? yetâ¦
RED Photographic wrote:
One thought, they guy might've messed up the session, and be embarrassed. Or, perhaps, the person doing the image manipulation either didn't deliver the goods, or the results weren't as good as promised. Sylvia even relates a similar situation that happened to her and how she choose to deal with itâ¦
Sylvia wrote:
I was in a similar situation where I received nothing. I understood the photographer was busy and sent him very polite short emails every once in awhile. Each time he promised the pics would be out soon- no such luck. I eventually just decided to cut my losses. I am slightly disappointed and would have liked to see the images, but I'm not trying to sacrifice what has been a decent relationship with this very talented photographer so far by only contacting him to ask about my photos. I was paid, and people are just flaky sometimes. Nihilus has some pretty good words of wisdom of her ownâ¦
Nihilus wrote:
Just have some decent communication excercised with your co-artists so that everyone knows roughly (at least) how many images are to be expected...after how much post-processing...in what format...at what resolution...from which set.....
Seriously...do people expect their model releases to do the speaking for them or do some people not even bother talking to those they are collaborating with? And all that doesnât even include my own thoughts which have been ALREADY postedâ¦of which I still stand by.
Iâm reading this as a case of miscommunication between the model and photographer. Of which thereâs 1- a difference of opinion of what the âfinalâ? image is, 2- has the photographer fulfilled his end of the deal, 3- what should you do about it (which Iâve specifically addressed what others have said in this post), because of this miscommunication (or lack thereof for that matter) 4- you feel he got a free peep of you while in body paint which you suggest in this postâ¦
Terra Michelle wrote:
hell, at least he got a shot of me naked in body paint. Furthermore, no one was attacking you for asking a question. You took it upon yourself to get on the âwoe is meâ? podium. My lineâ¦
Farenell Photography wrote:
I'm probably in the minority but I'm having a hard time sympathizing w/ you. â¦was nothing more than the equivalent of be given the facts on hand and not seeing what the brewhaha was about and/or disagreeing with your point of view.
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Terra Michelle wrote:
I understood it the first time you said it. I was just repeating my feelings for those who were confused as to why I would expect anything from the photographer since I was compensated monetarily and for those who just didn't understand why I would post such a question.
So again, thank you for pointing out alternative possibilities as to why I have not received the images. And again, if something like this is/was the case, then him being upfront about what was going on would of saved me from "harrassing" him. Terra,
I'm not sure why you think I am the one saying you are "harrassing" him. I've made no such statement. If anything, I can understand your frustration and am just answering your question to try to explain why the photographer may not have gotten the "finished" images to you.
However, in your quote above, you did say you were "harrassing" him.
I'm sorry you didn't get the "finished" pictures as promised in your agreement with the photographer...but then again...maybe the ones he sent you with the white background ARE finished.
I do not know because I am not the photographer. However, if you come to FL and wish to work with me, I'm sure we can finish what we start and get you with the images before you leave... 
- Denoy
Model
Terra Michelle
Posts: 8
Los Angeles, California, US
I'm not asking the same question over and over again.....I'm fine with the opinions people put out there. It just seems that some people don't get that there was no miscommunication here. We agree'd to something. I don't feel the agreement was met. I'm fine with that. Just wanted some input from others.
Again, I didn't ask for your sympathy or anyone else's for that matter. I asked a question. Nothing more.
DeBoer:
It wasn't my intention to accuse you of saying I was harrassing anyone. I was simply trying to illustrate that had he been upfront with me, it would of saved me from supposedly harrassing him. Make sense?
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