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model leave for other photog / photog leave for other model
I've had this happen twice within the last week.  It's kind of discouraging. Why would a model even bother asking you to do his/her pictures if they aren't even sure if they want you or not, or could be easily persuaded to go with another photographer? Ugg... Oh well... I should just move on and not worry about it. It still kind of annoys me though.Jun 23 05 09:20 am Link Dear John With Camera, I'm sorry, but I've decided to use another photographer. I will always love you and hold a special place in my heart for you, but I really have to move forward. She says, sarcastically. "Leaving" is an odd term to use. This isn't personal. This is business and people usually shop around before they decide on a purchase. Jun 23 05 09:55 am Link Yeah. You're right theda. I guess I just like seeing myself more as a person than a shop. Jun 23 05 02:22 pm Link Well, hey, if it's any consolation (I'm sure it isn't really) I would work with you if I were up in the Illinois area...and I wouldn't back out of it. Jun 23 05 02:35 pm Link Posted by Rebecca Alsbury: There are still some nice peeps in the world. Jun 23 05 02:39 pm Link Ah shucks...gonna go and make me blush now. Too bad I am stuck in redneck-ville...lol (If you couldn't tell...I'm not native Alabamian). Jun 23 05 02:42 pm Link Posted by Rebecca Alsbury: I feel your pain. Only in my case I'm an Alabamian by birth; however, my heart is in Florida (which I will be moving there as soon as I finish school). Jun 23 05 04:12 pm Link You peeps are just too nice. Thanks a lot.  I think the friendly atmosphere I had when I was doing animation and have when I'm doing film has spoiled me a little. If I expect to last as a freelance photographer, I need to toughen up a bit. Hahaha! Jun 23 05 08:25 pm Link yeah, you will get a lot of no-shows and cancellations at the last minute. Even as a model, I get the last minute cancellations some. It's just all part of the biz, but an unwanted part of it. Never fear, though, there are still some good souls out there. Jun 23 05 08:29 pm Link I can see totally why you would feel surprised/annoyed/put off/whatever by someone doing that, particularly if THEY contacted you to work with them. Personally, if I was 'shopping' for 'togs I'd make a list of who I wanted to work with and start with the top one and if he said no, then I'd go on. I wouldn't start making arrangements with someone and then go, nevermind I found someone I like better. I think that's kind of rude. Jun 23 05 08:29 pm Link Hmm seems like i've had ot happen before but then as a model I can say that it might happen because what people say about someone else might matter like not to say theres something bad about you...but if there was something else they had in mind then well that's just called flaking... Jun 24 05 12:13 am Link It irks me when they do it because someone else told them too because they want my job. Jun 24 05 06:44 am Link Are we talking about dating or photography? How bizarre! More fodder for the old "is internet modeling a joke?" question. A model is not "yours," a model building a book, in the real world anyway, should be shooting with several different photographers with different styles. Then hopefully she'll be getting a continuing stream of work for all sorts of jobs with many different photographers. You're not supposed to have a committed relationship. weird Jun 25 05 02:58 am Link Photography isn't dating? OMFG...why didn't anyone tell me before. I thought it was like the seventh grade version of playing the field before sex...you know, everyone goes steady for about two weeks, than switches partners, there are lingering jealousies, etc. I try to stay away from that, and have been pretty much successful, but i have seen too many 'dating' behaviors in both models and photographers to think that even without sex or sexual contact there is never anything more there than 'I am behind the camera you are in front of' it kind of thing. However, to get attached to someone you haven't worked with yet...that is wierd....and a bit stalker-like. If I get a minimum of 24 hours (72 is preferred) cancellation notice, I don't need a reason from the photographer, and I am just happy I knew that I can re-allocate the time. Jun 25 05 03:51 am Link Unfortunately some photographers do like to horde models as if they are a part of his collection. I don't know if that's because they feel they will be outshined or pecause they can't control their territorial behavior. Either way, it pretty much short changes the model. Jun 25 05 08:01 am Link Nothing wrong with "Shopping" around for the right photog or model. Maybe the photog or model should take this as a sign to broaden thier portfolio. People have the misconseption that once a model always a model..thats the same for the photog. This is not so, it is a field of always learning, always expanding, growing with the industry instead of the industry outgrowing you. Anybody can model if you have the look....the "Look" may mean lots of hours working out, practice posing, smiling or tons of practice photos of trees or plants to get the certain light effect you want. Nothing is easy but if someone else can do it then so can you, practice the poses your not good at and take those extra 1000 photos to get the right light effect. It will all pay off in your work. Jun 25 05 09:05 am Link Posted by Peter Dattolo: My suggestion is not to take 1000 photos with bad lighting, but rather set it up correctly take 1 photo. If it doesn't look good adjust. If you can't get it by the 10th shot, give it up. Jun 25 05 09:18 am Link LOL Well i was exagerating a little bit with the 1000 photos. If they are happy after 1000 or 10 photos, the point is they still learned something new. Jun 25 05 09:25 am Link Posted by Aaron_H: My point is pretty simple. If you're not sure you want to work with the model or photographer, don't waste his/her time with talks about setting up a photoshoot and trying to sync schedules. It's especially bad when the model or photographer lies and says they're just trying to find an open day, when in fact they have no plans on working with you. Jun 25 05 09:32 am Link Posted by Tony Sharp: I don't know that is what happened. He or she may have fully intended on working with you. It happens to us all. Just like no shows. And never hearing back. There is a nice or polite way to go about it. Jun 25 05 02:43 pm Link Well, if someone sets a job or something up with the other, neither one should back out unless something like a funeral, sick or something that cannot be helped whatsoever happens. I actually had an event planned to go to for a few months. Come to find out, they had to re-schedule the event and it just so happens that it ended being on a day I have another assignment. This had been planned for a few months. Well, it isn't my fault the event got moved....and it isn't the other photographer's fault that the event got moved to the day he is going to shoot with me. So....the event....I am no longer doing. It moved to a day that conflicts with someone I am already working with. I don't cancel on people. It isn't me. I won't do something like that. In fact, I haven't canceled for any reason yet. McKenzie Jun 26 05 08:38 pm Link Posted by Sara Green: Posted by Tony Sharp: I don't know that is what happened. He or she may have fully intended on working with you. It happens to us all. Just like no shows. And never hearing back. There is a nice or polite way to go about it. This is good advice. Some days I seriously feel like hanging up my camera. I need to find more artists to work with to help me remember why I wanted to be a photographer in the first place. And no, I'm not saying models aren't artist. I'm just saying I would like to work with more professionally minded artists who also do modeling. Posted by McKenzie: I agree. This would be a lot more professional. Jul 13 05 12:20 pm Link This could very well be one of the funniest threads I've ever read. Theda ( clap clap clap clap ), the Dear John was hysterical. Tony, get off the cross. Use the wood from the cross to build a bridge and get over it. What exactly was your offer to the model? Jul 13 05 12:31 pm Link Posted by ChristianBehr: And why are some people so rude for no reason? I may get discouraged sometimes, but I'm really glad I don't let my discouragement interfere with my motivation. Some of the best advice both my teachers and family have given me: patience, patience, hard work, and more patience. lol. Jul 13 05 12:53 pm Link Again, what was the offer? Thank you for the compliments. Some of us aren't rude, we're realists. If you want to see rude.... take your book to some of the NYC or Milan agencies. Jul 13 05 01:26 pm Link Posted by ChristianBehr: I would rather not go into too much detail on a public forum about our deal. It was fairly standard though. Pictures. Thank you for the compliments. Some of us aren't rude, we're realists. If you want to see rude.... take your book to some of the NYC or Milan agencies. Once I get enough money saved up for my upcoming film projects, I plan on retiring from fashion photography. Jul 13 05 01:58 pm Link Posted by Tony Sharp: Posted by ChristianBehr: I would rather not go into too much detail on a public forum about our deal. It was fairly standard though. Pictures. Thank you for the compliments. Some of us aren't rude, we're realists. If you want to see rude.... take your book to some of the NYC or Milan agencies. Once I get enough money saved up for my upcoming film projects, I plan on retiring from fashion photography. Who told you that what you were doing was "fashion"? Again, I'm being a realist. If you want to vent frustration.... go ahead, but the answers to your questions are going to remain hidden in plain view. Jul 13 05 02:20 pm Link Posted by ChristianBehr: Posted by Tony Sharp: Posted by ChristianBehr: I would rather not go into too much detail on a public forum about our deal. It was fairly standard though. Pictures. Thank you for the compliments. Some of us aren't rude, we're realists. If you want to see rude.... take your book to some of the NYC or Milan agencies. Once I get enough money saved up for my upcoming film projects, I plan on retiring from fashion photography. Who told you that what you were doing was "fashion"? Again, I'm being a realist. If you want to vent frustration.... go ahead, but the answers to your questions are going to remain hidden in plain view. Huh? I don't even understand what you're talking about. This thread isn't about me. It's about everyone who's been dropped for someone else. That's all. It was meant to be a simple discussion about this topic; not a vent. Jul 13 05 02:44 pm Link What you're failing to realize is that nobody gets "dropped". This isn't a relationship... it's work. That's why this thread IS ABOUT YOU. What you've got to understand is that if you have a couple images in a working model's book... that's all you get. No ONE photographer is supposed to have all the shots in a model's book. I love the girls I work with, but I can only contribute so much. After I've done what I do... I'm happy to send a girl to another shooter for the next thing. They do the same with me. That's how it works. Now, if the model didn't like the "standard deal" she was getting from you, it serves her interests to find a "better standard deal" from someone else. If you're under the impression that you're "involved" with the models... you really don't belong in this industry. Jul 13 05 02:56 pm Link I really don't appreciate what you're trying to insinuate, Christian. Here is something I said just a few posts up: "My point is pretty simple. If you're not sure you want to work with the model or photographer, don't waste his/her time with talks about setting up a photoshoot and trying to sync schedules." In other words, don't waste my time if you're not serious. This is all I'm asking for. Jul 13 05 03:02 pm Link Posted by Tony Sharp: Ya know... appreciate it or don't, your point isn't simple. It changed. Still, a reference to the former keeps popping up. I won't argue this with you... as you'd rather not look at the problem to find a solution, instead you co-exist with the problem. Now, instead of helping you with the solution, I'll kick back and watch as the problem grows... and grows. Jul 13 05 03:35 pm Link The problem doesn't even exist anymore. I have moved on. I just wanted to get a better understanding of the reasons behind people's thinking. And you have no interest in helping me. You started your first post by laughing at my thread. At most, you came to this thread to try to cause me more stress. Jul 13 05 03:43 pm Link From someone who spent 4 years in the U.S. Marines; I realize that Most Models and Photographers have any Discipline or Integrity for their work-ethic or their industry. Second, Tom you do sound like you get attached to Models to quickly and that if they change their i(undisciplined/uncompassionate) Minds then you feel insecure. Their are many male photographers who get 'attached' to models on a physical or emotional level. You really cant have that and be a professional. This is business. And to be a Professional Business Person you must have Discipline, Integrity, professional relationships. M Jul 13 05 03:44 pm Link As I have explained repeatedly, there is no attachment. A lot of thought, time, and planning goes into every shoot I do. I do not like wasting this thought, time, and planning on people who aren't serious about working with me. Why is it so hard for some of you to understand this? For my last shoot, a hair/makeup friend of mine had actually scheduled time off of work just so she could join the model and I for the shoot. Jul 13 05 03:48 pm Link Posted by Tony Sharp: It seems you have changed your tune since the first post. You've gone from characterising it as a model "leaving" you and "going with another" to making it out to be a no show. Jul 13 05 03:53 pm Link Posted by XtremeArtists: Posted by Tony Sharp: It seems you have changed your tune since the first post. You've gone from characterising it as a model "leaving" you and "going with another" to making it out to be a no show. What? "Leaving", "going to another photography", same thing. Jul 13 05 04:03 pm Link Posted by Tony Sharp: I ask questions when I'm trying to help people. For example, " Who told you it was fashion?" and " What is a 'standard deal?" When we get to the root, a solution becomes obvious. You don't like my methods... tough. Ask around, I am helpful, but require a full view before making suggestions. Jul 13 05 04:04 pm Link Posted by ChristianBehr: I posted the solution in my first post: "Ugg... Oh well... I should just move on and not worry about it. It still kind of annoys me though." I already know what to do in these kinds of situations. I just wanted to hear about similar experiences people have had. You're mad that I think this is funny? No I'm not. But your laughing does make me have doubts about your sincerity and intentions. Jul 13 05 04:09 pm Link Well, you can't get offended or take it personally. If this is what you want to do then NO ONE can tell you otherwise. If you have a model that you really wanted to work with not show up or just blow you off completely, then so be it. As it was said earlier, maybe she found someone she thought better suited for the job. When you are a photographer you pass over models as well. NO, you are probably not being rude and not calling them back, but it happens. I've had several models call me at first and tell me they are very interested, only to not call me back or not show up. The ones that don't call back I let be and MAYBE go back to at a later date. This has happened to me several times and the second or third attempt worked out fine and happy ending to those stories. Some that didn't show up AND did not bother calling??? I call them back to find out what went wrong and if it was a bad excuse, I don't work with them again. You have to set your standards and move on. Those that act professional will go far. Those that continue to blow things off, will not. Simple as that. Jul 13 05 06:15 pm Link Posted by d2images: This is very true, and I pretty much agree with everything you just said. My biggest issue is when my time and efforts are wasted. The rest doesn't bother me. I don't have any ego or attachment issues. I do have time wasted issues though. lol. Jul 13 05 06:43 pm Link |
