Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
:CRIES:
This doesn't make any sense... People tell me I have talent as a photographer, but why can't I make that much money as a photographer?! I'm offering 10 digitally enhanced pictures for $30 right now, and so far I've only gotten a few replies. What am I doing wrong?!
:CRIES SOME MORE:
Photographer
Mike Cummings
Posts: 5896
LAKE COMO, Florida, US
Selling too cheap, maybe?
Mike
Photographer
Jack D Trute
Posts: 4558
New York, New York, US
Go where the money is, not to where doggies poop.
And stop crying.
Photographer
J Welborn
Posts: 2552
Clarksville, Tennessee, US
Hey I agree with Mike --your offering a 300-400 dollar deal for 30 bucks . The customer has to say -what's wrong with this deal.
Price your work normally and say you are offering a discount for a period of time . Just like the car dealers do . They don't loose money they just don't make as much profit.
Photographer
Marcello H Photography
Posts: 86
Temple, Texas, US
What size are the prints? The larger, the better.
Photographer
William Herbert
Posts: 408
Bryan, Ohio, US
Posted by Tony Sharp:
:CRIES:
This doesn't make any sense... People tell me I have talent as a photographer, but why can't I make that much money as a photographer?! I'm offering 10 digitally enhanced pictures for $30 right now, and so far I've only gotten a few replies. What am I doing wrong?!
:CRIES SOME MORE: Maybe you are advertising in the wrong spot..
Photographer
rickOPIOLA
Posts: 415
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
here's my theory... seems like most people are afraid of cheap photography (i mean in price not in quality)... and the cheaper it is, the more suspicious they are... they either want it for free or are willing to pay regular pro rates...
i'm the same way i guess, i'll shoot for free or i'll shoot at regular rates (or offer a discount for certain people) but never for only a few bucks... it sets a dangerous precedence... i'd rather shoot for free, if the model would be good for my book, or i just don't take the booking)...
Photographer
Tommy Mc Photography
Posts: 67
Carson, California, US
Posted by NuruExpressions:
What size are the prints? The larger, the better. I don't think he is selling prints. I think he is selling jpgs.
Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
Posted by Mike Cummings:
Selling too cheap, maybe?
Mike That's what I was thinking, but... what the heak!? In my buzz post I do explain that I'm trying to make money fast for a film I'm doing, and thats why I'm charging so little. We could help each other out. I get a little money for my film, and the model gets 10 sweet pictures for his/her portfolio. 
Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
Posted by Tommy McI:
Posted by NuruExpressions:
What size are the prints? The larger, the better. I don't think he is selling prints. I think he is selling jpgs.
This is true. I am selling the JPGS. However, I can get the pictures printed for $5 each. 10 pictures for $30 + 10 printouts for $50 = $80. That still totals to something insanely cheaper than what most are charging.
Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
Posted by Jack D Trute:
Go where the money is, not to where doggies poop.
And stop crying. Mmm...
And okay.  lol
Posted by NuruExpressions:
What size are the prints? The larger, the better. 8x10.
Posted by rickOPIOLA:
here's my theory... seems like most people are afraid of cheap photography (i mean in price not in quality)... and the cheaper it is, the more suspicious they are... they either want it for free or are willing to pay regular pro rates...
i'm the same way i guess, i'll shoot for free or i'll shoot at regular rates (or offer a discount for certain people) but never for only a few bucks... it sets a dangerous precedence... i'd rather shoot for free, if the model would be good for my book, or i just don't take the booking)... This makes no sense to me. People will actually judge you on how much you charge and not on the quality of your work?
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Posted by Tony Sharp:
This makes no sense to me. People will actually judge you on how much you charge and not on the quality of your work? Yup. So you're damned if you charge pro rates and damned if you don't.
Photographer
RFAphoto
Posts: 223
Phoenix, Arizona, US
It's true! I've heard of wedding Photogs who INCREASED their rates as they were swampled with business, the result was MORE people wanted him for their wedding! when you offer something for below market value, a lot of people start to wonder what's wrong with it.
Advertising here isn't the best place either, you are surrounded by "Models" who think one of two ways; the photographer is their customer or that all work where they are not getting paid should be free! the concept of "Models" paying for pictures is a well established fact everywhere but on internet "Modelling"
Photographer
LongWindFPV Visuals
Posts: 7052
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
You're not advertising enough? Somewhere I read that in order to make $500 selling goods at $50 each, one has to reach an audience of 5000.
Photographer
John Swoger
Posts: 192
Peoria, Arizona, US
The old adage, "You get what you pay for" is often in peoples minds. They think if you are charging such low rates, your work either sucks, which it does not BTW, your profile is awesome, or you plan to rip them off, which I doubt as well.
And as others have said, you will not get rich trying to make money from "Internet Models", they will almost never pay you, period.
Raise your rate and advertise to people that will pay for your excellent services.
Best of luck.
Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
Model - "How much do you charge?" Tony - "$30 for 10 pictures. Would you like to see my portfolio?" Model - "Err... nah... That's okay. " Model - "How much do you charge?" Tony - "$10,000 for 1 picture." Model - "Wow! For that much your pictures must be quality! Sign me up!" Is it just me, or does this sound a wittle odd.... But okay... Fine... I'll go ahead and stop playing so nice and charge my normal rate. Posted by Joe K. Perez:
You're not advertising enough? Somewhere I read that in order to make $500 selling goods at $50 each, one has to reach an audience of 5000. This is probably true also.
So the secret to becoming a successful freelance photographer is to advertise and charge a lot?? LOL.
Photographer
Glamour Studio /Gary
Posts: 1237
Posted by rickOPIOLA:
here's my theory... seems like most people are afraid of cheap photography (i mean in price not in quality)... and the cheaper it is, the more suspicious they are... they either want it for free or are willing to pay regular pro rates...
i'm the same way i guess, i'll shoot for free or i'll shoot at regular rates (or offer a discount for certain people) but never for only a few bucks... it sets a dangerous precedence... i'd rather shoot for free, if the model would be good for my book, or i just don't take the booking)... wrong wrong wrong
I have to contest that theory. For more years than I can remember, the majority of inquiries coming from major Yellow Page advertising has proven that most call only to find the lowest price. "Hello, what is your fee for ......? Ok, thank you!". Maybe one out of a hundred actually want to bother to come in to even see your work. They don't think the same way we do. If you're a photog then you're a photog. If we have a business the thinking is we all can basically shoot the same way for what they want. Welcome to the world of full time studio photography and dealing with the public.
Photographer
- null -
Posts: 4576
How many times do I need to quote The Godfather on these forums?
[Johnny Fontaine is discussing his problems with Woltz]
Johnny Fontane: Oh, Godfather, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.
Don Corleone: [shouts] You can act like a man!
[he slaps Johnny]
Don Corleone: What's the matter with you? Is this how you turned out? A Hollywood fannuchio that cries like a woman?
[Don Corleone imitates him sobbing]
Don Corleone: What can I do?
[camera pans to Tom who is laughing]
Don Corleone: What can I do? What is that nonsense? Ridiculous.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
People who wantr the cheapest price can get it for free. People who want the best quality aren't going to take $2/shot very seriously.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Posted by Tony Sharp:
:CRIES:
This doesn't make any sense... People tell me I have talent as a photographer, but why can't I make that much money as a photographer?! I'm offering 10 digitally enhanced pictures for $30 right now, and so far I've only gotten a few replies. What am I doing wrong?!
:CRIES SOME MORE: I am not sure if I should envy you...
I am shooting so much... I must work sometimes overnight, with no sleep to catch up with post production work, before I am going to the next assignment after breakfast or so.
I have to cancel sometimes personal invites of celebrities because I am overbooked.
Tell me your secret... how do you manage not being overworked and stressed out?
Alex Billington (MM# 9228) was accompanying and assisting today at an event, where he met VP of RocaWear, a headdesigner of SeanJohn, two other fashiondesigners, a rap artist and a former NBA player. While there, I was commissioned by several more people for other photoshoots and commercial projects...
In addition to that, several models want me to shoot their portfolios... and that was just ONE event... and that is going on all the time and totally multiplies.
Maybe you understand now that I wasn't really joking... I have a lot of work and need a vacation... LOL
Photographer
Mike Cummings
Posts: 5896
LAKE COMO, Florida, US
Posted by Udo R Photography:
Posted by Tony Sharp:
:CRIES:
This doesn't make any sense... People tell me I have talent as a photographer, but why can't I make that much money as a photographer?! I'm offering 10 digitally enhanced pictures for $30 right now, and so far I've only gotten a few replies. What am I doing wrong?!
:CRIES SOME MORE: I am not sure if I should envy you...
I am shooting so much... I must work sometimes overnight, with no sleep to catch up with post production work, before I am going to the next assignment after breakfast or so.
I have to cancel sometimes personal invites of celebrities because I am overbooked.
Tell me your secret... how do you manage not being overworked and stressed out?
Alex Billington (MM# 9228) was accompanying and assisting today at an event, where he met VP of RocaWear, a headdesigner of SeanJohn, two other fashiondesigners, a rap artist and a former NBA player. While there, I was commissioned by several more people for other photoshoots and commercial projects...
In addition to that, several models want me to shoot their portfolios... and that was just ONE event... and that is going on all the time and totally multiplies.
Maybe you understand now that I wasn't really joking... I have a lot of work and need a vacation... LOL Sounds like you could use some help... Where do we send the applications?
Mike
Photographer
Uvision Media LLC
Posts: 440
Central Square, New York, US
1st off always charge full price. If things are slow then at least you'll be making better money per shoot and not feeling like it was a waist of time. 2nd off learn to promote your work better. The net sucks for making money as a photographer. You get way to many FTP/CD deals on here to really expect anything paid. Promote your work locally (news papers, business cards, hunt your target clients out). I feel these are most likely your biggest problem. Never under cut your own prices. Yeah you might get some work but it's real hard to make those clients pay full price once you've given them such a sweet deal. They tend to get pissed off and act as if you are trying to rip them off. Either do it for free or charge full price right out the gate and you'll never gave this problem.
Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
Posted by theda:
People who wantr the cheapest price can get it for free. People who want the best quality aren't going to take $2/shot very seriously. That still sounds a little goofy to me. Why can't the models judge the quality of my work by actually looking at my work?
Posted by Rafael Alvarez:
1st off always charge full price. If things are slow then at least you'll be making better money per shoot and not feeling like it was a waist of time. 2nd off learn to promote your work better. The net sucks for making money as a photographer. You get way to many FTP/CD deals on here to really expect anything paid. Promote your work locally (news papers, business cards, hunt your target clients out). I feel these are most likely your biggest problem. Never under cut your own prices. Yeah you might get some work but it's real hard to make those clients pay full price once you've given them such a sweet deal. They tend to get pissed off and act as if you are trying to rip them off. Either do it for free or charge full price right out the gate and you'll never gave this problem. Advice taken.
Makeup Artist
Tracey Masterson
Posts: 553
Shelton, Connecticut, US
Tony, this is mostly all excellent advice.
I know it doesn't seem like it makes sense to up your price, but that is just the way it works. I am in more demand when I charge more as a makeup artist, as well. Expecially when it comes to bridal clients. They don't want someone that will jack up their face for 50 dollars. (Well, some are so darn cheap that they do. But, that is a different story.) And models and clients don't want a photographer that will jack up their prints for 50 dollars, either. What is really the underlying theme is confidence. You need to have the balls to say, "I charge 350.00 for a photo shoot. This includes x amount of prints. You supply the makeup artist or I will arrange for one. That is x dollars more. When do you want to come in?"
It is all about the confidence level, in my opinion. Let them know you are worth it. Or make them think so, at least.
BTW, your new pix look great. Your book is really looking good these days.
Good luck.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Posted by Mike Cummings:
Posted by Udo R Photography:
Posted by Tony Sharp:
:CRIES:
This doesn't make any sense... People tell me I have talent as a photographer, but why can't I make that much money as a photographer?! I'm offering 10 digitally enhanced pictures for $30 right now, and so far I've only gotten a few replies. What am I doing wrong?!
:CRIES SOME MORE: I am not sure if I should envy you...
I am shooting so much... I must work sometimes overnight, with no sleep to catch up with post production work, before I am going to the next assignment after breakfast or so.
I have to cancel sometimes personal invites of celebrities because I am overbooked.
Tell me your secret... how do you manage not being overworked and stressed out?
Alex Billington (MM# 9228) was accompanying and assisting today at an event, where he met VP of RocaWear, a headdesigner of SeanJohn, two other fashiondesigners, a rap artist and a former NBA player. While there, I was commissioned by several more people for other photoshoots and commercial projects...
In addition to that, several models want me to shoot their portfolios... and that was just ONE event... and that is going on all the time and totally multiplies.
Maybe you understand now that I wasn't really joking... I have a lot of work and need a vacation... LOL Sounds like you could use some help... Where do we send the applications?
Mike Hey Mike...
Actually, I do need help. I am looking for interns as assistants... but sofar... I posted on some boards, but I am rather looking for photography students who want to do it... I didn't pursue it well enough yet I guess.
Maybe bulletin boards in schools and on some photolabs in the photodistrict... don't know... when I have more time, I'll take care of it... Catch 22 I guess...
Photographer
Lost Coast Photo
Posts: 2691
Ferndale, California, US
My grandfather used to say, if you charge too little, people won't believe they're buying quality.
Beyond that, what exactly is your market niche? Who are you trying to sell to? Are you reaching the right audience? It's going to be tough to sell direct to models, because 1) most of them are young and don't have very deep pockets, and 2) there's little incentive for them to return to the same photographer twice at least for pay, so no repeat business = never ending marketing to find new clients, and 3) every other online photographer is after the same market, it seems.
If a brand new model asked me for portfolio building advice, I'd tell her to spend top dollar on one major-market nationally known photographer and then do a few tfp's. I'm not sure I see where the K-Mart (inexpensive) niche fits in, really.
Photographer
Tony Sharp Chicago
Posts: 184
Chicago, Illinois, US
Posted by Tracey Masterson:
Tony, this is mostly all excellent advice.
I know it doesn't seem like it makes sense to up your price, but that is just the way it works. I am in more demand when I charge more as a makeup artist, as well. Expecially when it comes to bridal clients. They don't want someone that will jack up their face for 50 dollars. (Well, some are so darn cheap that they do. But, that is a different story.) And models and clients don't want a photographer that will jack up their prints for 50 dollars, either. What is really the underlying theme is confidence. You need to have the balls to say, "I charge 350.00 for a photo shoot. This includes x amount of prints. You supply the makeup artist or I will arrange for one. That is x dollars more. When do you want to come in?"
It is all about the confidence level, in my opinion. Let them know you are worth it. Or make them think so, at least.
BTW, your new pix look great. Your book is really looking good these days.
Good luck. Thanks a lot, Tracey, and everyone. I'm going to erase all my $30 offer threads and just charge my regular rate from now on.
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