Model
Sogno Dolce
Posts: 33
Alpharetta, Georgia, US
When doing a TFP shoot, is it rude for the model to ask the photographer to split the cost for an MUA? I have had one shoot where the photog was more than happy to do so - what are yall's thoughts on this?
Model
~*Isabel Aurora*~
Posts: 5778
Boca del Mar, Florida, US
it depends on who approached who for the shoot if the model approached the photographer for the tfp, then i would think that the model should cover the cost if the photographer contacted the model, then i (as the model) sometimes offer to split or put something in for it.. it's really your call...i don't think there is a right or wrong answer so much as it is situational 
Photographer
Amanda Schlicher
Posts: 1131
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
I don't think it really matters as long as its decided well ahead of time. It would really depend on if the photographer thought he/she would use the images in his/her portfolio, or if he's shooting for your portfolio for a favor or for pay.
Wardrobe Stylist
stylist man
Posts: 34382
New York, New York, US
As with most of the conversations of this type, it all depends on the shoot and those involved.
Most of the disagreements can be stopped by just communicating with each other and asking nicely what it is that you want, need, and must have in order of importance.
The other people involved in the shoot can say yes or no, then you can say yes or no or make another offer based on the response given. There is no TFP or TEST police that will come and throw you in photoshoot jail for changing the norm for there really is no normal.
Those who just show up for a shoot based only on the call of 'hey wanna shoot', can fault noone but themselves if they do not get what they want.
Photographer
Scott Aitken
Posts: 3587
Seattle, Washington, US
I'm happy to split the cost of the MUA if the model is willing to split the cost of my studio rental, computer equipment and camera equipment. :-)
Snarky answer aside, it depends on the nature of the shoot. And I agree with MHana that communication ahead of time is key. If a model showed up with a MAU in tow without telling me ahead of time, and asked me to pay half, I'd be pretty pissed. If they asked ahead of time, I'd generally say no (see snarky answer above), but might say yes under certain circumstances.
If the model and photographer are both desiring a TFP, then it makes more sense to me to try to find a MUA interested in TFP as well.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
Sogno Dolce wrote:
When doing a TFP shoot, is it rude for the model to ask the photographer to split the cost for an MUA? A MUA is a tool that enhances the model presentation much like tools used by the photographer for creating dynamic photography. If a model is doing a shoot based on barter then it is up to him or her to bring the necessary tools to the shoot just like the photographer. It is up to the model determine how best they wish to present themselves, it is up to the photographer to capture it.
On a client shoot there is an expectation by both parties a MUA is a component of the shoot and the client foots the bill. When doing a TFP the model is their own client and should do what is required or do without and hope for the best.
A MUA isn't part of what a photographer should provide on a barter, they have their own responsibilities for holding up their end of the trade.
Model
AmieS
Posts: 438
Dallas, Texas, US
I know your not asking more models but i try to see if they would be willing to do that..but if not atleast you know you are getting the quality pics that you want and you know your hair and makeup look awsome:)
Photographer
VRG Photography
Posts: 1025
Tallahassee, Florida, US
Scott Aitken wrote:
I'm happy to split the cost of the MUA if the model is willing to split the cost of my studio rental, computer equipment and camera equipment. :-)
Snarky answer aside, it depends on the nature of the shoot. And I agree with MHana that communication ahead of time is key. If a model showed up with a MAU in tow without telling me ahead of time, and asked me to pay half, I'd be pretty pissed. If they asked ahead of time, I'd generally say no (see snarky answer above), but might say yes under certain circumstances.
If the model and photographer are both desiring a TFP, then it makes more sense to me to try to find a MUA interested in TFP as well. Exactly.
If I'm doing a studio shoot, I can't afford to cover the MUA, also.
Hair Stylist
rick lesser
Posts: 1116
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
In case you wanted to ask a makeup artist....Depending on who the shoot is for. If your looking to build or add to your book, you should pay. If your asked by the photographer, then it's just like any other client, they pay. Most of the time the model pays me. Sometimes the phtographer pays me. Never had both split my cost. And there are times I'll ask a model to shoot so I of course don't charge. I'm lucky. All the photographer's I work with will shoot for me whenever I want and not charge me. I'm great at networking. I've introduced those photographers to each other and it has been great! Some are new to the business and some not. It good for the models as well. R-
Model
BeccaNDSouth
Posts: 1670
Olympia, Washington, US
I'm getting ready to work with a mua next week, and I paid for it myself. However, it is for a test shoot, and was my idea. I think if it is for portfolio work, or a test, then it should be up to the model to pay. It is the least we can do. I know that we as models aren't made of money, but still, when the photographer is paying for the studio, cameras, lighting, backgrounds, processing, etc. etc... then the least we could do is pay for the mua or stylist. For my next shoot (the test shoot), I am paying for my own travel expenses as well, since it was my idea to shoot. Otherwise, if I am shooting with a photographer at his request, for a project or something, he/she tends to cover travel.
All-in-all, it just depends on who is the one needing the images I think. Then again, both the model and photographer really need the images...right?
Photographer
Special Ed
Posts: 3545
New York, New York, US
Sogno Dolce wrote:
When doing a TFP shoot, is it rude for the model to ask the photographer to split the cost for an MUA? I have had one shoot where the photog was more than happy to do so - what are yall's thoughts on this? I say... it depends. If I'm asking the model to shoot, then I feel that I should be supplying the MUA. Unfortunatly, it doesn't always work in reverse. I usually get the "I can do my makeup just as good" speech. (Which is usually a lie) So I then have to search out a MUA that is willing to TFP.
Photographer
Jack D Trute
Posts: 4558
New York, New York, US
Ed Remington wrote:
I say... it depends. If I'm asking the model to shoot, then I feel that I should be supplying the MUA. Unfortunatly, it doesn't always work in reverse. I usually get the "I can do my makeup just as good" speech. (Which is usually a lie) So I then have to search out a MUA that is willing to TFP. Ah, There it is.
The internet or the new photo world statement.
I can do it myself or just as good.
Well no you cannot.
Most of you just suck.
No really, no bad feelings
but you are just terrible at what you do.
Get a clue.
Take it the next level?
How about take it to the
level of even being respectable?
Get a grip.
Doing makeup on your sister or your dog does
not count on photoshots.
Most of you are not even qualified
as being a good assistant of a pro.
I am NOT slamming you.
I am really giving
you the Truth.
I am not keedin.
The top people are there for a reason.
I had roommates in my past life as a French bull dog,
and they thought I should be shooting what Miesel shot.
Ah, look beavis, I was not even qualified
to be his first or maybe second
assistant let alone shoot what he shoot.
(he copied me anyway but that is to be discussed later.)
That does not mean you cannot get there just know
what you are dealing with.
Not trying to put you in "your place"
but there is knowledge to be obtained
and experience and just whether
or not you have it or you just suck.
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
area291 wrote:
A MUA is a tool that enhances the model presentation much like tools used by the photographer for creating dynamic photography. If a model is doing a shoot based on barter then it is up to him or her to bring the necessary tools to the shoot just like the photographer. It is up to the model determine how best they wish to present themselves, it is up to the photographer to capture it.
On a client shoot there is an expectation by both parties a MUA is a component of the shoot and the client foots the bill. When doing a TFP the model is their own client and should do what is required or do without and hope for the best.
A MUA isn't part of what a photographer should provide on a barter, they have their own responsibilities for holding up their end of the trade.
Photographer
Robbie Wolf Photography
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US
I would definitely consider splitting it if it was a TFP. A good MUA means I'm going to get better photos.
And if a MUA asked me to help them make portfolio photos, I would likely be all over that.
Photographer
VRG Photography
Posts: 1025
Tallahassee, Florida, US
Sand Angel wrote:
I would definitely consider splitting it if it was a TFP. A good MUA means I'm going to get better photos.
And if a MUA asked me to help them make portfolio photos, I would likely be all over that. Exactly, on both points.
My main MUA brings me hot models all the time for my portfolio, and I love it!
Photographer
Analog Nomad
Posts: 4097
Pattaya, Central, Thailand
Sogno Dolce wrote:
When doing a TFP shoot, is it rude for the model to ask the photographer to split the cost for an MUA? I have had one shoot where the photog was more than happy to do so - what are yall's thoughts on this? I think everything is open to negotiation on a TFP shoot. The final "deal" that you strike depends entirely on the needs and wishes of both the model and the photographer, and there are very few right or wrong answers.
Some needs and desires will tend to limit the work available, but that doesn't inherently make them wrong or unfair -- or rude.
Personally, given the right model and the right concept for a shoot, I would be happy to split the cost of a MUA with a model.
I think there are two common negotiating ploys that models and photographers use when somebody asks them to do something they aren't interested in doing -- the first is to call it "unprofessional," and the second is to call it "rude." I personally dislike both of those terms.
I say, ask for what you want or need. If what you're asking for is truly out of line, the marketplace will speak by ignoring you, and you'll either adjust your approach, or not work much. Choice is a beautiful thing!
Regards,
Paul
Photographer
TRIPOD
Posts: 4515
Jack D Trute wrote:
Ah, There it is.
The internet or the new photo world statement.
I can do it myself or just as good.
Well no you cannot.
Most of you just suck.
No really, no bad feelings
but you are just terrible at what you do.
Get a clue.
Take it the next level?
How about take it to the
level of even being respectable?
Get a grip.
Doing makeup on your sister or your dog does
not count on photoshots.
Most of you are not even qualified
as being a good assistant of a pro.
I am NOT slamming you.
I am really giving
you the Truth.
I am not keedin.
The top people are there for a reason.
I had roommates in my past life as a French bull dog,
and they thought I should be shooting what Miesel shot.
Ah, look beavis, I was not even qualified
to be his first or maybe second
assistant let alone shoot what he shoot.
(he copied me anyway but that is to be discussed later.)
That does not mean you cannot get there just know
what you are dealing with.
Not trying to put you in "your place"
but there is knowledge to be obtained
and experience and just whether
or not you have it or you just suck. Ummm....have you actually even used a makeup artist on your shoots? Well at least you know that your stuff sucks. That is what your are saying, I think. Not sure. Your post kind of rambled.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
Sogno Dolce wrote:
When doing a TFP shoot, is it rude for the model to ask the photographer to split the cost for an MUA? I have had one shoot where the photog was more than happy to do so - what are yall's thoughts on this? Does the photographer require an MUA? if so, definately split or maybe they should pay for all of it.
Is getting the MUA your choice? You should pay all of it.
if you want to split it though...
Hi Mr. Photographer. I'm really looking forward to our shoot. I was thinking of hiring an MUA to do my make up. I can't afford her entire rate and was wondering if you would be interested in splitting the cost with me. It's ok if you can't as I an always do my own my makeup.
Model
Edit...hey, who dug this up? The OP posted this 6 months ago!
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