Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Dave Krueger wrote:
The company I work at is so conservative that they don't hire anyone who has ever been naked for any reason.  The office must smell pretty bad. How does anyone shower if they can't get nekkid?
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Golly gosho, I gotta bump myself 'cause I was number forty. But then again, I doubt that anybody thought it was funny anyhow.
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
That's why most of my shoots are done in Europe
with European models. Nudity in the U.S is considered
'pornography' by the mainstream. Unless, of course,
it's done by Holywood...
With rare exceptions, All American women/models have a
big problem with nudity ...
Photographer
Steven Bigler
Posts: 1007
Schenectady, New York, US
Hey dude.... we are in America.... take your smut somewhere else.
There is no room for nudity either in America or on the web!
Have some morals!
Photographer
That Look Photography
Posts: 1581
Clearwater, Florida, US
Justin N Lane wrote:
Move to NYC, we're so out of touch with the rest of the bullshit going on in the US that we might as well be part of Europe...and we're more culturally diverse!
Seriously, just do what you want...so what if we don't have ads for Toblerone with naked women in the US, we have a 2+billion dollar a year porn industry. Irony is entertaining! But it is getting smaller all the time..The JOJ is making it harder and harder for everyone even us who just shoot what we call art. They twist the laws around to make more things against the law then what the law was made to do..
Photographer
That Look Photography
Posts: 1581
Clearwater, Florida, US
oldguysrule wrote:
Catch up? Sounds like a value judgement to me. (and while I may agree, in part, I don't think it pays to load your arguments with value judgements.)
Strong "cultural" underpinnings become more entrenched not less so. There are ample opportunities to publish nudes in the USA, even in the odd advertisement. It's usually just a question of context.
European markets have their own issues. What is the complaint here, really?
Cheers!
the oldguy The complaint is that you could shoot something and not even know that the DOJ can send you to jail for 10 yrs.. It may look like normal stuff to you but to a Fed with a rightwing agenda it could be grounds for a crimanal charge. And what they like to do is even if they know they can't win the court case they make sure you spend lots of money defending yourself.. It's very sad..
Model
Nathie
Posts: 53
Brussels, Brussels, Belgium
Indeed, it seems in the US everything's much more infiltrated by puritanism and hypocrisy!!! It even shows on modelling-sites as MM and OMP!!! That's a pitty of course!! It's a proof of the whole MTV-culture we're living in ("beeeeeep" when the word "fuck" comes in the lyrics, while dudes are hitting eachother like hell in stupid shows like 'JackAss'!!) !!
Also really strange on the other hand: when a male 'dingeling' is shown on a picture, it has to be taken of the models' port (not talking 'bout MM though!), while loads of female-models are on there with the whole "peach-pit" showing!!!
Confusing!!!
Nathie, Belgium
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Model
Nathie
Posts: 53
Brussels, Brussels, Belgium
...And then we're (or certainly in the US!!) complaining about Muslims!!!! Haha!!!
Photographer
Christopher Marcel
Posts: 19
Fussa, Tokyo, Japan
I think that the denial of sexuality or the idea that nudity is wrong by Americans breeds a more perverse sexuality then there is in other nations.
I could be wrong because I don't have numbers and I only know about America on this one, but I never hear about all the sex crimes in other countries that you hear about in America. I would like some input if you know something I don't.
Sexuality still permiates popular culture although it seems that there is still a denial of what it is. A woman can dance at the club to "Back that thing up" or many other titles about sex and still say that nudity is wrong. I don't understand that since you help support basically pornographic music and something that is not always pornographic (nudity) is shunned.
I don't hate any of it, just confused.
Photographer
MichaelHaynes
Posts: 136
Norfolk, Virginia, US
cypocryphy wrote:
Puritanism is deeply entrenched in the USA, unfortunately. You can see its influence even on MM... Does Europe even have a version of the religious right? Yes. They are called Puritans! The Puritans came from England where, it seems, the British, wise people, were more than happy to persecute them.
Ya gotta love a culture than changes religions to suit its own needs. I want a divorce so I can marry beautiful Ann Bolin cause she's French. So...screw the pope and his wimpy Spanish army. We're gonna start the Anglican Church, get us our royal divorce, then burn, behead, stab, hang and gut any Catholic priest who does not convert. Martydom is good for the soul.
Photographer
MichaelHaynes
Posts: 136
Norfolk, Virginia, US
kumi wrote:
in the UK depends on the age of the model
nudity for the under 18 set is now considered indecent
;-)
no more images a la david hamilton
nor cute lil babies with naked bums pushing diapers Ironic, huh? In conservative old USA you can take nudes at any age whereas liberal, open U.K. now bans nudity under age 18.
Did I hear the OP say that nudes in America started after the 60s? Whoa, Nellie! Seems if I recollect properly from my Art History courses that nude photography in America got its start in the 1800s. The first photograph of a female was a nude, wasn't it? Playboy and its kin have been around from before the 60s. American soldiers in World War 2 shocked their British hosts by pasting nude posters of pin-up girls in their barracks.
Maybe the diference is Europe is more open about what they do, and the U.S. more close mouthed?
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
MichaelHaynes wrote:
Ya gotta love a culture than changes religions to suit its own needs. I want a divorce so I can marry beautiful Ann Bolin cause she's French. So...screw the pope and his wimpy Spanish army. We're gonna start the Anglican Church, get us our royal divorce, then burn, behead, stab, hang and gut any Catholic priest who does not convert. Martydom is good for the soul. AMEN
Studio36
Model
Nathie
Posts: 53
Brussels, Brussels, Belgium
MichaelHaynes wrote:
Ironic, huh? In conservative old USA you can take nudes at any age whereas liberal, open U.K. now bans nudity under age 18.
Did I hear the OP say that nudes in America started after the 60s? Whoa, Nellie! Seems if I recollect properly from my Art History courses that nude photography in America got its start in the 1800s. The first photograph of a female was a nude, wasn't it? Playboy and its kin have been around from before the 60s. American soldiers in World War 2 shocked their British hosts by pasting nude posters of pin-up girls in their barracks.
Maybe the diference is Europe is more open about what they do, and the U.S. more close mouthed? Please do not forget that the U.K. is one of the most conservative countries in Europe, if it concernes nudity and such!!!!!!!
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
MichaelHaynes wrote:
Ironic, huh? In conservative old USA you can take nudes at any age whereas liberal, open U.K. now bans nudity under age 18. NOT TRUE; NOT TRUE; NOT TRUE
What was banned was INDECENT PHOTOGRAPHS of U-18's... believe it or not - and the irony of it is - that even now in the UK I, or you, or anybody can produce or possess or sell or exhibit a sketch; painting; sculpture; drawing; illustration; or damn near any kind of artwork depicting indecency and a U-18 [apparently] subject. Even something that could be seen as hard core - but NOT a PHOTOGRAPH. Merely possessing a photograph from which some piece of indecent art was created as a copy or intermediate could, no... check that... it would, be breaking the law whereas the artwork itself would not be the basis of a crime or chargeable criminal offence outside the Obscene Publications Act which is a completely different law than the one controlling indecent photos of U-18s, and that requires completely different evidence and proof in court.
Witness... the prize winning art of Jake and Dinos Chapman - the infamous Chapman Brothers. Children with penis noses and vagina mouths. ca1996
http://vassun.vassar.edu/~jamundy/ZygoticL.jpg
Studio36
Photographer
EL PIC
Posts: 2835
Austin, Indiana, US
The culture delta is a Mis Match between the Global economy
and the advertising and art that supports such an economy.
E L
Photographer
Vegas Alien
Posts: 1747
Armington, Illinois, US
It's not just the "religious right" in this country that are the problem. Ignorance is omnipresent in the U.S. As long as people are taught that nude bodies are dirty this will continue.
Photographer
Sienna Hambleton
Posts: 10352
Toledo, Ohio, US
Steven Bigler wrote:
Hey dude.... we are in America.... take your smut somewhere else.
There is no room for nudity either in America or on the web!
Have some morals! Hmmmm.
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Vegas Alien wrote:
It's not just the "religious right" in this country that are the problem. Ignorance is omnipresent in the U.S. As long as people are taught that nude bodies are dirty this will continue. It's not only, or a simple as, that either. Recently a Brit reporter was doing a feature piece on the RRR in the southern US states. Somewhere along his travels he encountered one of these fundamentalist anti-Darwin churches and made some reference to humans being animals... just as any other warm blooded animal life on the planet.
And they actually got on camera... the pastor throwing him and his camera crew out because he dared to consider and announce out loud that humans, and specifically including the humans that were members of that pastor's flock, were really merely one kind of animal in human clothing.
Unbelievable! And the earth is flat... and the sun moves around it too. What the hell is a whole generation of American children learning about their place in the universe any how? Europeans have a lot more to be thankful for than a little nudity.
Studio36
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
Christopher Marcel wrote:
I think that the denial of sexuality or the idea that nudity is wrong by Americans breeds a more perverse sexuality then there is in other nations. right to the point!!!!!!!
Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
I spent a lot of time in Germany last year. A friend there complained because in the United States the speed limits restrict how fast one may drive, while on the autobahn there are no speed limits (not true - some stretches have no speed limits).
I noted that I'd been driving the autobahns for several weeks and found that one couldn't possibly dirve as fast on them as on any U.S. Interstate once away from major cities. He gasped and could not understand that speed limits have little validity here.
One can exercise a Porsche in the U.S. just as well as in Germany.
Despite cultural pressures here and laws there and whatever, one may make exactly the same photographs in the U.S. as in Europe. As far as nudity goes, it's pretty common at the beaches in La Jolla and in the deserts anywhere. Anyone wanting to get naked outside in the U.S. can certainly find a way to do it.
My limited experience with European models was interesting too. Myra was well aware that standing naked on my balcony smoking was perfectly legal, but she still had the same hesitation to be seen by passers-by as most models here in the U.S.
The U.S. and Europe are much more similar than they are different when one takes into account most other continents. Gonna have to visit Australia one of these days though.
-Don
Photographer
MichaelHaynes
Posts: 136
Norfolk, Virginia, US
studio36uk wrote:
NOT TRUE; NOT TRUE; NOT TRUE
What was banned was INDECENT PHOTOGRAPHS of U-18's... believe it or not - and the irony of it is - that even now in the UK I, or you, or anybody can produce or possess or sell or exhibit a sketch; painting; sculpture; drawing; illustration; or damn near any kind of artwork depicting indecency and a U-18 [apparently] subject. Even something that could be seen as hard core - but NOT a PHOTOGRAPH. Merely possessing a photograph from which some piece of indecent art was created as a copy or intermediate could, no... check that... it would, be breaking the law whereas the artwork itself would not be the basis of a crime or chargeable criminal offence outside the Obscene Publications Act which is a completely different law than the one controlling indecent photos of U-18s, and that requires completely different evidence and proof in court.
Witness... the prize winning art of Jake and Dinos Chapman - the infamous Chapman Brothers. Children with penis noses and vagina mouths. ca1996
http://vassun.vassar.edu/~jamundy/ZygoticL.jpg
Studio36 I am SOOOOOOO confused! How do Brits NOT run afoul of the law?
Thank God the our constitution gives us freedom of speech and expression, up to and including walking around nude on a public street if I want to. I didn't know you could do that in the U.S. A lawyer friend once represented my next door neighbor who is a member of one of those nudists cults. She got arrested a couple years ago during some fool nudist activism protest bycycle ride in Alexandria. There is some sort of Nude America day where people are supposed to run around nude or something to protect our right to freedom of expression. My neighbor got charged and convicted of indecent exposure by the local court. That is when my friend, the lawyer was called by this group my neighbor is in. They seem to have booku money. He appealed to federal court where the conviction was OVERTURNED! States cannot force you to wear clothes except where the public safety in concerned. We have a constitutional right not to wear clothes! Where do I go to sign the petition to require all 18 to 25 year old girls to run around topless? 
Last thing: The current religous right frown-upon attitude about nudism......Capitalism at its best. Restrict a commodity and what happens? You create a demand. Nudity is in demand in America, is hidden to make it seem scare and thus Americans pay through the nose to see it. Number one money maker in America: Nudes! Can't beat capitalism and can't zap the churches with anti-trust violations for teaming up to ban nudes because they are not selling it.
Photographer
EL PIC
Posts: 2835
Austin, Indiana, US
MichaelHaynes wrote:
Last thing: The current religous right frown-upon attitude about nudism......Capitalism at its best. Restrict a commodity and what happens? You create a demand. Nudity is in demand in America, is hidden to make it seem scare and thus Americans pay through the nose to see it. Number one money maker in America: Nudes! Can't beat capitalism and can't zap the churches with anti-trust violations for teaming up to ban nudes because they are not selling it. Interesting Logic ... not sure demand, and restriction on things like nude are what drives it. There is also supply and other factors.
E L
Photographer
The House of Lethal
Posts: 472
Atlanta, Georgia, US
its not always nude photography. or even full nudity. i was arrested in ohio for showing the dress in my avatar a couple of years ago. okay you guys may think the dress is ugly but arresting me is taking it to far.
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
Ken Mierzwa wrote:
At least in parts of coastal California, nudity is relatively acceptable, and in some jurisdictions even legal. I did a full nude shoot in santa cruz on a cliff overhanging the ocean about 5 years back. I was told by the models friend who took us there that it was fine. Later I heard from someone that I and the model could have gotten ticketed or arrested. Then later I hear most or all of santa cruz is clothing optional and have heard of topless women walking down the boardwalk,etc,etc.
I don`t know if this is true but if it is, I have some ideas.
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8628
Sacramento, California, US
kumi wrote:
i was thinking of antone pavlov that shot his girl molly
(aged 17 at the time)
heh
we just shot
tho she's now 18
:-D
www.molly-web.com
(nws) I love his work.He is one photographer I show people when I talk to them about the ability to photograph something normally considered explicit porn(like a model with a vibrator inserted like his shot of Molly on that site) and still to id completely artisticly without being "in your face" sleaze.
Photographer
DJTalStudios
Posts: 602
Seattle, Washington, US
oldguysrule wrote:
I don't think it pays to load your arguments with value judgements.) Really? Why not? LAWS that affect people of different values are made based on value judgement. So why shouldn't he do it also. ESPECIALLY since he is 100% correct.
The context of the nude shouldn't matter now should it? And in a truly free society it wouldn't.
Like why is ok for a MALE to be topless in public but not a woman???? Its all about someone else pushing THIER values on the masses.
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