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Posted by Herb Way: Posted by Rising Moon Photography: You're right on point. Aww sh$$ you black too????? Jun 21 05 06:26 pm Link I have worked with many different races in the business... business is business. It is just annoying when some people start to complain and say they have it harder than others. Thats all I've got to say... I don't even know why Im arguing with a bunch of lame internet photographers. bye. Jun 21 05 06:36 pm Link Posted by Chelsea Harris: The abundance of ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Now hear this! Some people actually do have it harder than others and often it's because of race. I suppose you'll next tell us how, when you were growing up, your family had a colored maid who was just like one of the family. Jun 21 05 06:53 pm Link Posted by Rising Moon Photography: No doubt, well said. Jun 21 05 07:00 pm Link Posted by Chelsea Harris: Awwww run and cry cry......HUMPH I don't see your behind on the cover of W magazine or Italian Vogue. So why are you in this thread slumming gurl??????? Jun 21 05 07:10 pm Link Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea Harris: Awwww run and cry cry......HUMPH I don't see your behind on the cover of W magazine or Italian Vogue. So why are you in this thread slumming gurl??????? Now, be careful how you talk about our southern belle. LOL Jun 21 05 07:20 pm Link Posted by Chelsea Harris: Now that was just pathetic. Jun 21 05 07:26 pm Link If the sterotype of photographer is "old white dude", I fit that perfectly, except I don't consider myself to be old, even though I'm twice the age of most of my clients. I'm glad to see diversity when it comes to photographers....black, white, green, blue, old, young, male, female, whatever! What we are as a person helps give us all a unique style, and I hope that's what our clients want to see. Jun 21 05 07:29 pm Link I think more than anything, many a model are shocked to see "ME!" I could care less, but I tend to conduct what little business I get, over email. If you called my phone, I would most likely let it go to voicemail. I think I'm too young to have experienced any "in your face" racism like some folks may have, but I have no doubt in my mind that it exists. When I first started shooting I had a younger white girl that shot with me, 95% of her portfolio was very sexy, implied nudity type stuff and that was most of what was in her bag when she arrived with another model that I was to shoot that day as well. After meeting me face to face; the sexy, implied nudity model couldn't find enough wardrobe to put on. The bad thing about it was, she was wearing the other girls clothes. I felt like asking her to leave. I am what I am and up until recently, I was mainly shooting white girls. I still haven't shot with 95% of the models that I ask to shoot, but in the end I always think that it's their loss not mine. This thread was needed because I'm sure many more people encounter this situation. I say "old white dude" because when you think of photographer, that's what you think; or at least that's what I think. I've been shooting for 2 years today, and the road wasn't hard for me; but it sure was rocky. I didn't know the first thing about photography when I bought a Fuji S602z, I thought I was the shizzle until I met a "real" photographer; an old white dude. I had the extension tube and everything on my joint. I got my first DSLR in September 2003, now I don't have a lens that cost less than my Fuji did. Point being, when you see this type of photographer on the other side of the door, try not to open your eyes wide and make sure you catch yourself before your jaw hits the floor. It will make the shoot go a lot smoother. Jun 21 05 07:46 pm Link Posted by Chelsea Harris: 18 yr old white female from South Carolina knows what about prejudice? Jun 21 05 07:48 pm Link is that all you guys can dish is the word "ignorant"? It's cool you guys stereotype me because I live in SC. Well... again your wrong, Im not even from SC. Does it really matter where someone is from? You all are hypocrits. Jun 21 05 08:17 pm Link Posted by Chelsea: I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle. Jun 21 05 10:20 pm Link Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle. How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol... Jun 21 05 10:26 pm Link Posted by Chelsea: Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle. How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol... And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl. Jun 21 05 10:29 pm Link Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle. How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol... And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl. what does "thang" mean? Yep yep I didnt take the time to read your profile... only wasting a bunch of time responding to your posts. Jun 21 05 10:35 pm Link Posted by Chelsea: Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle. How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol... And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl. what does "thang" mean? Yep yep I didnt take the time to read your profile... only wasting a bunch of time responding to your posts. And gee I missed this in my shuffling Jun 21 05 10:47 pm Link I can honestly say that this is the way I look at "race" differences. You have a better tan than me. I have to hang out in the sun to get tanned like that. Many a women and men will pay a lot of money to get their hair permed so it'll be curly...If someone has to assume that talent is based on skin color than maybe they need to hang in the sun and get a perm. My, almost 20 yr.old, son is a tall skinny white boy and he can jump and play b-ball with the best of 'em. Just a spur of the moment thougt from a blonde that loves to be tan. Jun 21 05 10:49 pm Link There is a general feeling of; "It doesn't exist" and I think anyone of age or anyone who has had the luxury to travel beyond the 2 square mile radius that we call, "the block", "the (trailor) park", or the neighborhood knows otherwise. I didn't want this to turn into a racial debate. I really was interested in knowing if anyone would be man or woman enough to admit that they've done it or that they've experienced it. I think those who have been on the unfavorable side of things; (the thinkers of such nonsense) are afraid to say, "Yes - I thought that" but that's cool too. Because I'm more offended by people who try to act like they are "cool" I take offense to some of the comments made. "Internet Photographer" being one of them, especially when others are no better but the same by falling under the same title; doing the same thing. I whisper dumb shit to my friends all the time and I describe people as; "white boy" or "spanish kid". I even call some of my closest friends; "nigga", but I can't help that, it's my culture. What you will never here me say is; "cracker, wetback, or nigger" That would make me racist. Many might say there is no difference, you're wrong. The difference is in the culture and in my culture it's acceptable to use the first set of terms to describe those race of people, but that doesn't mean that I take that culture to work, because I work for a Law Firm that would have my ass on skewer if I did. You have to understand yours and everyone elses environment before you can judge it. I lived in Los Angeles, Connecticut, Texas, Alabama, and now in Philly. I've seen it from damn near all corners of this continent and if you think it doesn't exist, you should be hit in the head with an anvil. I can't and don't lump everyone into the same group, but I think I know and FEEL it when it's happening. This is off topic: there is a difference between; their, they're, and there. Too, two, and to, and you're and your. Jun 21 05 10:51 pm Link Posted by Chelsea: Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: Posted by urban prospect: Posted by Chelsea: I can dish more than that sweetness and light. Yeah I am full blonw ghetto but I'm about to snack on a southern belle. How are you ghetto? Because you like to talk crap on the internet? Calm down it is just a forum. Ok ghetto boy it is way past my bedtime I must get some rest before you beat me up over the internet... lol... And Miss thang don't read either y'all I am a female. Humm see what our high schools produce today. Yeah get that beauty sleep gurrrl. what does "thang" mean? Yep yep I didnt take the time to read your profile... only wasting a bunch of time responding to your posts. Oh sooo upper class. Jun 21 05 10:52 pm Link Posted by Lisa Fortier: ??/WTF??? Jun 21 05 10:53 pm Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: First off there is NOTHING wrong with debate. Secondly I know and feel when it is happening too. When i get told "I do not consider you black" Does than mean I am now allowed into the country club? For people with their heads in the sand they can go sod off. Yes we can all get along and Lord knows I try BUT as long as a bigot hires fires and directs social standards and expectations then there will continue to be issues period whether art or politcal policy. Jun 21 05 10:58 pm Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: My heritage is part German, part Native American and part black. Feel free to call me a "kraut" or "cracker" or "nigger" or whatever you want, since I'm all of the above. I give you my permission. Because I don't really give a damn about words like that and none of them offend me. Jun 21 05 11:49 pm Link Yes, what would a female photographer know about prejudice? Things are tough all over, pony boy. Chelsea will never know how hard it is to be you. And you will never know how hard it is to be her. There's really no accurate mneans of comparing, is there? Jun 22 05 12:44 am Link Well...most females will get an image in their head before meeting someone. I never picture a photographer to look like what he does. Even if we don't know the photographer, we still get some sort of image. I thought you were black due to your name. It doesn't make sense, I know, but like I said...we just get an image. It's like, we can't control the image...one just pops in our head. I really don't care what photographers look like either. I look at their work before I write back to them. Don't feel bad...some people don't know that I'm Korean !!! lol Jun 22 05 12:50 am Link Posted by theda: I get your point, Theda, but it's a weak one that's laced with denial. Female and white is still white with all of the white privilege that goes with it. No one is likely to see Chelsea from a distance and decide to treat her like a second class citizen because she's a photogapher the way they would with someone whose skin is of a darker hue. Jun 22 05 01:39 am Link Posted by Herb Way: You don't think she's treated as a second class citizen because she's a woman? Or because she's young? I'm not trying to play a game of "who's got it worse." I'm saying we really can't. Jun 22 05 01:44 am Link Posted by theda: Please gimme a break....... another Scarlett Jun 22 05 01:45 am Link Posted by urban prospect: Yes, I grew up in a big white house with columns. Except than the Yankees came and burned down my house and killed most of my family and friends. And then my father went insane so I took over the farm when I was 19. I hoed and planted several acres of cotton myself and then prostituted myself to save my home when I could pay taxes. And then was shunned by polite society for going into business even though I was a woman and was sexually assualted and blamed for it because I rode through a bad part of town. Jun 22 05 01:48 am Link Posted by theda: Posted by urban prospect: Yes, I grew up in a big white house with columns. Except than the Yankees came and burned down my house and killed most of my family and friends. And then my father went insane so I took over the farm when I was 19. I hoed and planted several acres of cotton myself and then prostituted myself to save my home when I could pay taxes. And then was shunned by polite society for going into business even though I was a woman and was sexually assualted and blamed for it because I rode through a bad part of town. This is an example of what I'm talking about and how you just don't get it. Your whiteness, and the assumptions that you can make because of it, allows you the privilege of misplaced sarcasm and insensitivity. Jun 22 05 02:10 am Link Posted by theda: Chelsea is the one who seems to think there are no prejudices, so obviously, she doesn't know much(of anything). Jun 22 05 02:15 am Link Posted by George Butler: Posted by theda: Chelsea is the one who seems to think there are no prejudices, so obviously, she doesn't know much(of anything). VERY, VERY well said! Get it, Theda? Jun 22 05 02:38 am Link Posted by Herb Way: Of course I don't get what it's like to be black. But if you think my "misplaced sarcasm and insensitivity" comes from assumptions or my "whiteness," you haven't been paying much attention. Jun 22 05 02:44 am Link Holla I am not concerned with being mistaken for a white haired old guy. I am concerned with not being taken for a psychotic who just wants to lay and take advantage of young models. Being an older balding white male I have been told by the models I have shot that they are suprised at the way I deal with things, meaning I worry about how they are first. I have my wife or daughter join us at all photo sessions so they know someone is there for me as well as them. I tell them I won't take photos they don't want their parents, spouse, lover, or children to see. Jun 22 05 02:52 am Link Posted by theda: Posted by urban prospect: Yes, I grew up in a big white house with columns. Except than the Yankees came and burned down my house and killed most of my family and friends. And then my father went insane so I took over the farm when I was 19. I hoed and planted several acres of cotton myself and then prostituted myself to save my home when I could pay taxes. And then was shunned by polite society for going into business even though I was a woman and was sexually assualted and blamed for it because I rode through a bad part of town. Not enough blood yet Scarlett, but that is my thinking. Jun 22 05 03:08 am Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: You Black! No Way? lol yeah I know what your talkin about bro. How many 27 year old Cuban guys do you see in this industry? I get that same reaction that you get bro. I laugh at those people though. It's real nice to see the look on someoneâs face when they can't believe their first impression was 100% wrong. Keep you head up bro cause your work is hot and fuck anyone one that can't see that. Jun 22 05 04:30 am Link Posted by theda: Posted by Herb Way: You don't think she's treated as a second class citizen because she's a woman? Or because she's young? I'm not trying to play a game of "who's got it worse." I'm saying we really can't. Being white is ALWAYS better. Trust me on this one. Jun 22 05 06:26 am Link Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: Because, of course, you've been a woman, so you're in a position to quantify it. Jun 22 05 06:52 am Link I don't know if it's a twisted sickness or what... But I do love to read Theda's posts... heh he heh... Jun 22 05 07:29 am Link Posted by EMG STUDIOS: Hmm... I was for certain you were a ganja smoking hispanic guy... Seriously... No kidding... The ganja smoker's are some of the best artists, let me tell ya... Jun 22 05 07:31 am Link Posted by Melvin Moten Jr: Posted by theda: Posted by Herb Way: You don't think she's treated as a second class citizen because she's a woman? Or because she's young? I'm not trying to play a game of "who's got it worse." I'm saying we really can't. Being white is ALWAYS better. Trust me on this one. Being white isn't better, as in superior, but it's almost always an advantage. Jun 22 05 07:31 am Link |