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TFP...... for a band????????
from craigslist milwaukee: Looking for a photog., for a TFP shoot for an up & coming band. Will be looking for the shoot to be sometime in late Feb. So, let me get this right. You and your bandmates are going to do me the favor of modelling for my portfolio (which I love to fill with photos of people without ever even seeing what they look like first) and in exchange I give you.... prints? Oh, right. You need the right to reproduce for promo, fliers, album art, etc. So you're going to do me the favor of modelling for my portfolio (which we'd have to shoot using all your ideas anyway, since you are in control of the "image" you want to portray as a band), and I'm so grateful I'm going to pay you in unlimited right to reproduce my photos for your public self promotion and usage by your agent. Right. Where did this clown even pick up the term "TFP" anyway? It's not like there isn't a photo student at UWM who'd be willing to do it for free. If you want free, just... say that? 75% of people reading that ad don't have any idea what TFP is anyway. So I did what any self respecting photographer who likes to shoot bands would do: emailed them with my rates. Feb 10 06 07:53 pm Link Ha. Yet another winner from CL  Feb 10 06 08:08 pm Link -lol- I thought Seattle-Craigslist was the only one famous for the "Please Work for Free" ads... I guess it's a relief to know that it's epidemic in other cities too. Feb 10 06 08:10 pm Link Craigslist is actually humourous to look through when I'm bored at work. TFP would be great with a band... if you were part of the band. I guess there's nothing in it for the photographer. Feb 10 06 08:13 pm Link Side Effects Studio wrote: I got my full time paying job on craigslist.... but 90% of the ads are "please work for free." Usually in the arts and creative categories they are up front about that... other industries just call it an "internship" and tell you later that it is unpaid. Feb 10 06 08:15 pm Link Amanda Schlicher wrote: "Internship"... yeah - those are funny. Feb 10 06 08:19 pm Link Amanda Schlicher wrote: Dude probably has a internet model for a girlfriend. Feb 10 06 08:33 pm Link Well....maybe if they let me jam with them on stage sometime. LOL Or better yet, if they are well enough established that they have some cute groupies I could hang with (and possibly shoot). But only then. Alan Feb 10 06 10:23 pm Link I saw someone post on a musicians forum asking if anyone had any hot girlfriends that would pose for their CD cover for free. He got ripped into pretty hard  I did a "free shoot" for a So. Cal. guitarist to go in the CD insert. He posted on the musicians forum asking for help from "aspiring photographers" and I offered. We had conversed on the forum a bit already so I sort of "knew him" (though we had never actually met) and he seemed like a cool guy. I thought it would be fun to shoot with him, and it was, I got credit on the CD, some word of mouth advertising and a couple copies of the CD (just came in the mail today). Granted, he didn't use the "TFP" buzz word and the forum is a much tighter community than I would imagine CL is. I should probably go update the credits section of my profile huh? Here's a picture I put together just for fun from some photos from the shoot  Feb 11 06 12:18 am Link Hey, some people make a living w/ bands. I don't think it's ridiculous that he/they whatever asked you to shoot them just because they're a band. ...maybe everything else about the situation though.. Feb 11 06 01:40 am Link I can see why you think it's absurd, but is it really? Is it really all that different than a model wanting a TFP? Yes, they'll want shots they like for their promo stuff. But if you are TFPing, it also seems fair that you also could insist on doing some stuff you want for your portfolio in exchange. Yes, they want rights to use it for all sorts of stuff (CD covers, promo materials, website, etc, etc.). More than likely they are a no-name local band that occasionally plays in bars. If they were signed with a major label, they wouldn't be trying to get free photography. You could give them limited rights for a limited time. Stipulate that if they ever sign a serious money contract with a real promoter, they have to hire you for a real shoot. Or stipulate that they have to pay you to continue to use your images after that. Or say they can use the images for their first 1000 CDs, but after that they need to pay you. All of these suggestions are methods for them to use the images while they are broke, but triggers a payoff for you if they ever actually make anything of themselves. Get creative. No need to give them unlimited usage rights forever. If you think it would be fun to get in to band photography, and you want some band photos for your portfolio, it seems like you could work out an arrangement that could be mutual. If you have good band photos already, or you aren't particularly interested in band photography, then give it a pass. Just like models, some bands under some circumstances are worth doing a TFCD with, and some are not. Feb 11 06 02:08 am Link I could see how some of the suggestions could be something a photographer could do. but lets be real.... who.. and HOW could you possibly keep track of how many CDs they create or sell. so putting a limit on limited use... seems impossible to track. asking the band to have you as an exclusive photographer if they make it big... that could be a little more lucrative.. yet... bands breakup and regroup as a different name...... so what do you do there... band x loses one guy turns into band y and makes it big. Long story short... IF YOU WORK FOR FREE (either for love of the art, friendship or just being generous) >>> DONT EVER EXPECT ANYTHING OUT OF IT< if you do get something later on... consider yourself lucky, best case scenerio...1 portfolio shot of a band.. that may make it someday. and if shooting bands is where you want to start making money.. well.. you have to start your portfolio somewhere. Scott Aitken wrote: Feb 11 06 02:28 am Link No need to blast the band! It's NOT unusual for a new photographer to shoot bands for free. Sometimes bands play gigs for free, and sometimes photographers shoot free too! So it's actually known as "freelance" NOT "TFP!" Maybe one of the musicians has a girlfriend who models and got the term from her. I have done photo journalism in the music industry for 20 years. I've interviewed musicians and shot well over 300 concerts! When I shot someone famous, it's usually done on an editorial basis where the "band" pays nothing. If I really like a local or unknown band, I'll introduce myself and shoot them on a freelance basis. If they want to buy pictures, they can, but everything is negotiable! Most bands have little money, so don't expect to get rich shooting them! It's better to start a music publication like I am doing. Feb 11 06 02:35 am Link Scott Aitken wrote: Scott, you have it down! Good information! I'll just add that there are two basic types of "band" photography. One is "live" or while the band is performing on stage. This is most commonly done for press or journalism. Then there is the "studio" shots done for promotional use by the band. With the live photography, it's most often done without money being exchanged with an editorial release only. Shooting promo shots is negotiable in that many times the photographer can get paid for the rights or usage of these images. Either way, it's quite a different world from modeling shoots ... but then again ... maybe not? Feb 11 06 02:45 am Link I saw on another site a posting for a TFP wedding and she was not even going to feed the photographer. NO FOOD even. Wow. Why would a photographer need to do a tfp wedding that is what relatives are for? Feb 11 06 02:48 am Link Tell 'em you'll shoot the band for TFP [if you want some shots for your book] but the rights will cost them a minimum of 10 grand... That will get rid of them fast. LOL Studio36 Feb 11 06 05:36 am Link Gary, you knocked over a Bogner...good man. Feb 11 06 05:42 am Link Amanda Jeanne wrote: In the late 80's I shot plenty of bands on the Sunset Strip for free... Feb 11 06 05:53 am Link MHana wrote: If you want to become a Wedding Photographer you need to start somewhere! Hello... Feb 11 06 06:02 am Link Amanda Schlicher wrote: they got the term from one of the bandmates girlfriends...and not only will they have their TFP shoot, they have thier pick some several TFP photogs...because what will happen is, the chick will offer up her time as well..and everyone knows, the TFPing GWC..does whatever he has to in hopes of being able to photograph some chick...i'd imagine they'd eat worms if they had to...so shooting a band..thats easy... Feb 11 06 06:55 am Link I don't see the big deal. If you don't want to do it then don't. I had a friend in a band who needed help with images for the first CD. One of my photographer friends and I spent an hour shooting some images for the project after our regular shoot. It wasn't a big deal and it helped out the band. Starving artists across the board can use a little help here and there. Yes, I agree that paid jobs are my favorite but I am also willing to lend a helping had sometimes too if I feel like it! Feb 11 06 07:10 am Link On Net-Model there was a recent thread where a "model" wanted a TFP session in another part of England to do a family portrait session. In effect the photographer would either in his/her studio or on location would shoot the happy family for free. The "model" said, I never pay for photos so why should me family! I want to give them a nice gift (at someone else's expense). TFP is a two way street. Feb 11 06 07:14 am Link Patrick Walberg wrote: Wow...that's the worst use of the term freelance ever...you get a brown star... Feb 11 06 07:46 am Link James Jackson wrote: Haha, I had the exact same reaction. "Freelance" means that you are an independent contractor, not that you work for free. Feb 11 06 09:31 am Link I don't see what's so crazy about this. Shooting a band sounds like fun, and would definitely add something different to your portfolio. At least you have a variety of people doing something interesting, other than standing around posing. I think the internet is really pushing the boundaries of a trade economy. And the bottom line is you can't really predict what two people may be willing to trade. Feb 11 06 10:09 am Link I think it would be an interesting project, and certainly one to have a look at. You'd probably have to explain to the group the legal side of copright, and have a contract to say what they could and could not use the pictures for, but I'd give it a go. Feb 11 06 12:25 pm Link Outside of illustrating a point in discussions like these, I avoid using the letters TFP altogether and this Craig'sList posting is a great example of why. This is of my growing irritations with this new TFP concept. To many people, TFP now stands for The Free Photoshoot. They don't see it as a concept of trade-off. Like mentioned earlier, a band certainly sees the necessity of doing something now in exchange long term benefits, as opposed to money. I knew a band that would play a venue without a monetary take because the venue's owner also had a studio and agreed to pay them in recording time. It's just unfortunate that people think they can get photoshoots on the cheap without any form of compensation other than the shot itself. If people didn't bastardize the concept of TFP then a band like this would come to a photographer proposing trade terms that can benefit both sides. I'm not against shooting a band for a payment other than money. I just don't like this attitude of some as if "Hey, it's a priveledge to shoot me! You do it for free because (apparently) having shots of us is good enough for you." Nonsense... I can put a group of models together and make them look like a band if the shot was all I needed. And why do people think they can get free photoshoots instead of trade-offs? Because there are photographers who will shoot the pictures and will give away reproduction rights and won't negotiate any future payment or present compensation whatsoever... Feb 11 06 02:15 pm Link Jay Bowman wrote: Hmm. Yeah, why not hire 3 or 4 models, instruments and equipment, plus clothes, and have them pretend to play... when you could get the real thing for free! Yeah, great idea! Feb 11 06 05:53 pm Link Stephen de las Heras wrote: I should clarify: Stephen de las Heras wrote: Don't think for a second that I'm unappreciative of this explanation on how creative people work (do they get a rush from working with other creative people, really? like, how kewl would that be?). It'll be good to know the next time I stumble upon one of these people at a dinner party or somesuch. Stephen de las Heras wrote: I agree completely. Stephen de las Heras wrote: As far people who are both creative and commercial, well... I wouldn't know how they do it. I'm neither remotely creative nor commercial in any way. I do, however, know just as many people who happily marry creative and commercial energies as I know people who are pulled in opposite directions by them. Feb 11 06 06:57 pm Link Amanda Schlicher wrote: It's not all about the money. ...but if they are making money or profiting off or your pictures you too should be making money that how I see it. Feb 11 06 07:19 pm Link I guess it depends on who they find. If it's someone just starting a portfolio, and the band gives them full credit wherever used, that could be a huge boost for the photog. Feb 12 06 10:21 am Link I did one gig for a friend for free and ended up shooting the other 3 bands playing which has spun into a few other paid gigs. So don't be too quick to say no to networking opportunities! Think about it like this : Go to a show you enjoy AND get to take pictures?! O yea and getting in for free, full access, and possibly getting a paid... I'm definetely hooked on the band photography! Another great part is not having to take your lighting! Mar 09 06 10:52 am Link Opportunity knocks! new career; documentary photographer - follow them to the top - you will have all the exclusive photographs. do it! just for the privilege of carrying around the drum set! Mar 09 06 11:16 am Link A lot of photographers--many here on Model Mayhem--go around asking for TFP models all the time. Frankly I see no difference in a band asking to be photographed in trade for pictures. Maybe you think people shouldn't be photographed TFP unless they take their clothes off? Mar 09 06 11:22 am Link They might be the next big thing, I would do it. Mar 09 06 11:47 am Link I am more than happy to do "free shoots" because I also shoot stock photography for a micro-stock website. It really is a trade off: I will shoot the model in the manner that he/she wants for thier portfolio, then shoot them using different poses and conditions which will benefit my stock portfolio. Mar 09 06 12:21 pm Link I did several shoots and roadtrips with a band in Fl. Grunge. Anyone ever hear of Club Spacefish? Got closed because some meatheads were throwing human excrement on the people dancing. At any rate-did the shoot[s] and one of my images ended up on their CD cover [short-lived group] and another in the paper which brought me more business and people buying my work. If I had to do it all over again I certainly would. Fee beer, free half-naked sweaty vixens and fun. Was worth the trade-out to me. Mar 09 06 12:48 pm Link ADG Photography wrote: I was thinking the Groupie angle my self!!!! Mar 09 06 01:05 pm Link Kansas City Media Group wrote: Of course the groupies come with the territory!!! Mar 09 06 05:44 pm Link |
