David Moyle wrote:
But, I can't bring myself to put her on my friends list (given my new policy of only being friends with those I work with or correspond with).

Not weird... just sticking to your policy.  Don't feel bad :-)

deadlypoetry wrote:
no you aren't being wierd. you are a photographer, and that requires a certain level of professionalism. furthermore, you have to be careful what you are projecting, and if that is something you don't want to project of yourself, then you shouldn't.

Ok, here's a question for you.

You're 19. 3 years isn't allot of time since 16. As a Dad, I'd freak if my daughter when she reaches 19 years old (yes, although an adult) were posing nude or even with sexy clothes. I don't think it would bug me at 21 or older. I also would have a hard time photographing and 18/19 year old nude. I'd feel smarmy. This is no way an insult to you, I'm just curious. Was it because I was brought up in a different time? Too many hang-ups?

What are your thoughts on that subject?

David Moyle wrote:
Ok, here's a question for you.

You're 19. 3 years isn't allot of time since 16. As a Dad, I'd freak if my daughter when she reaches 19 years old (yes, although an adult) were posing nude or even with sexy clothes. I don't think it would bug me at 21 or older. I also would have a hard time photographing and 18/19 year old nude. I'd feel smarmy. This is no way an insult to you, I'm just curious. Was it because I was brought up in a different time? Too many hang-ups?

What are your thoughts on that subject?

Mine are that in this country we expect an 18 year old to be able to volunteer to die for this country, vote for our president, and be civilly & criminally responsible for him or herself.  Unless you think an 18 or 19 year old shouldn't be allowed to make those decisions either, since an extra 2 or 3 years supposedly imparts a great deal of extra maturity (oh how I wish it were so!), then why would that person choosing to pose nude be an issue?

SLE Photography wrote:
Mine are that in this country we expect an 18 year old to be able to volunteer to die for this country, vote for our president, and be civilly & criminally responsible for him or herself.  Unless you think an 18 or 19 year old shouldn't be allowed to make those decisions either, since an extra 2 or 3 years supposedly imparts a great deal of extra maturity (oh how I wish it were so!), then why would that person choosing to pose nude be an issue?

Well, I was interested in the 19yr old's POV.

But, I'm not saying it isn't up to her. I was merely stating I'm not sure I could personally take the photos without feeling a bit like I was attributing to the corruption of innocence. When I was 20, I had no problem with 18-19yr old nudity. As a 36 year old Father of a Daughter, I feel a bit creepy when I see it.

I'm not saying it isn't my own personal hang-up. I was just looking for her thoughts and perspective.

David Moyle wrote:
I've been debating over this for a few days now.

I received a friend request from a 16 year-old model that has some rather "sexy"-ish photos in her portfolio, and some "innocent-teen-in-a-swimsuit" photos. Now, these are all professionally taken it would appear, so her parents must be ok with this. But, I can't bring myself to put her on my friends list (given my new policy of only being friends with those I work with or correspond with) as I feel like a "creepy photographer" by doing so.

Am I being unreasonable and weird? Maybe it's the Dad in me.

Tony Korleone wrote:
I agree with you. I used to add everyone and I had 5 pages of "Friends" .... now I only add people I know or definately think I would work with. IF she likes your work ...FINE... tell her you only add potential shoots and she can add you to HER Favorites.

Well, except that I don't know that I'd even want to shoot a 16yr old in the style she has in her portfolio, and most of my work I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with her either, even if her parents were with her.

David Moyle wrote:

Ok, here's a question for you.

You're 19. 3 years isn't allot of time since 16. As a Dad, I'd freak if my daughter when she reaches 19 years old (yes, although an adult) were posing nude or even with sexy clothes. I don't think it would bug me at 21 or older. I also would have a hard time photographing and 18/19 year old nude. I'd feel smarmy. This is no way an insult to you, I'm just curious. Was it because I was brought up in a different time? Too many hang-ups?

What are your thoughts on that subject?

99.9% i agree, and do believe 19 is still too young. but, not to boast myself, but im not the typical 19 year old. im a senior in college, have held a job since i was 14, and haven't had any parental help. these things, among others, have given me the life experience to have a fairly firm grasp on what i want out of life, what i believe morality to be, etc.  furthermore i didn't venture out to have pictures taken of me, nor sought to be a model, furthermore didn't ask someone to take some nudes. i became friends with a great photographer, and over time worked on some stuff that i was proud of, and moved on from there. so my story aside, i do agree, and it is a fine line, one that can only be defined on a case by case basis. (and btw the family i do have contact with knows about my modeling, and supports me because i have done it wisely. i don't just accept every offer to shoot. i am careful, and i do what i am comfortable with, read everything before i sign it, etc. etc. etc.)

i hope this answers some of those questions.

David Moyle wrote:
Well, I was interested in the 19yr old's POV.

But, I'm not saying it isn't up to her. I was merely stating I'm not sure I could personally take the photos without feeling a bit like I was attributing to the corruption of innocence. When I was 20, I had no problem with 18-19yr old nudity. As a 36 year old Father of a Daughter, I feel a bit creepy when I see it.

I'm not saying it isn't my own personal hang-up. I was just looking for her thoughts and perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with your stance on not adding the girl you mentioned, or saying you should do things you disagree with.
We're the same age & I've got kids in my life, too.
I'm just throwing a little perspective on the "corruption of innocence," as you say.
A lot of folks have kids of their own & it sets their minds in funny places where a lot of things in the world look evil or scary & they not only do their kids a disservice by trying to lock them away or protect them from those things (often even if the parent did them him or herself...lots of people drank or tried drugs or had sex & turned out JUST fine but they forget this when it comes to insisting their kids don't) or stop other people from being allowed to do them.
I am not saying you're advocating those things, btw, just noting where that sort of attitude can lead, hence the perspective.
You mentioned that 3 years isn't long from 16 to 19.  Is the extra 2 to 21 going to make that big of a difference if that child hasn't been raised to think for him or herself, to take some pride in him or herself, and make rational decisions?  I doubt it.
And heck, in this state at 16 that kid could DRIVE and having had a few of those grilles pointed at me, that's scarier than a lot of other things!
But seriously...love your daughter, look out for her, teach her your values and how to think like a rational person.  She'll be able to handle the world OK, even if she runs in to 20 yr old guys who think photographing a nude 19 yr old is OK and I doubt she'll be all that corrupted.  To think otherwise would be giving her very little credit as a person & you very little credit as a parent!

deadlypoetry wrote:

99.9% i agree, and do believe 19 is still too young. but, not to boast myself, but im not the typical 19 year old. im a senior in college, have held a job since i was 14, and haven't had any parental help. these things, among others, have given me the life experience to have a fairly firm grasp on what i want out of life, what i believe morality to be, etc.  furthermore i didn't venture out to have pictures taken of me, nor sought to be a model, furthermore didn't ask someone to take some nudes. i became friends with a great photographer, and over time worked on some stuff that i was proud of, and moved on from there. so my story aside, i do agree, and it is a fine line, one that can only be defined on a case by case basis. (and btw the family i do have contact with knows about my modeling, and supports me because i have done it wisely. i don't just accept every offer to shoot. i am careful, and i do what i am comfortable with, read everything before i sign it, etc. etc. etc.)

i hope this answers some of those questions.

Makes sense. You seem like you have your head on straight about it. Thanks for the time to answer that!

SLE Photography wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with your stance on not adding the girl you mentioned, or saying you should do things you disagree with.
We're the same age & I've got kids in my life, too.
I'm just throwing a little perspective on the "corruption of innocence," as you say.
A lot of folks have kids of their own & it sets their minds in funny places where a lot of things in the world look evil or scary & they not only do their kids a disservice by trying to lock them away or protect them from those things (often even if the parent did them him or herself...lots of people drank or tried drugs or had sex & turned out JUST fine but they forget this when it comes to insisting their kids don't) or stop other people from being allowed to do them.
I am not saying you're advocating those things, btw, just noting where that sort of attitude can lead, hence the perspective.
You mentioned that 3 years isn't long from 16 to 19.  Is the extra 2 to 21 going to make that big of a difference if that child hasn't been raised to think for him or herself, to take some pride in him or herself, and make rational decisions?  I doubt it.
And heck, in this state at 16 that kid could DRIVE and having had a few of those grilles pointed at me, that's scarier than a lot of other things!
But seriously...love your daughter, look out for her, teach her your values and how to think like a rational person.  She'll be able to handle the world OK, even if she runs in to 20 yr old guys who think photographing a nude 19 yr old is OK and I doubt she'll be all that corrupted.  To think otherwise would be giving her very little credit as a person & you very little credit as a parent!

Yep, I get what you're saying. We pretty much agree on all your points.

deadlypoetry wrote:
99.9% i agree, and do believe 19 is still too young. but, not to boast myself, but im not the typical 19 year old. im a senior in college, have held a job since i was 14, and haven't had any parental help. these things, among others, have given me the life experience to have a fairly firm grasp on what i want out of life, what i believe morality to be, etc.  furthermore i didn't venture out to have pictures taken of me, nor sought to be a model, furthermore didn't ask someone to take some nudes. i became friends with a great photographer, and over time worked on some stuff that i was proud of, and moved on from there. so my story aside, i do agree, and it is a fine line, one that can only be defined on a case by case basis. (and btw the family i do have contact with knows about my modeling, and supports me because i have done it wisely. i don't just accept every offer to shoot. i am careful, and i do what i am comfortable with, read everything before i sign it, etc. etc. etc.)

i hope this answers some of those questions.

Point of fact, what I was saying about magical gaining of maturity is something you expressed better here...everyone's different in that regard  :-)
But you make a great argument for why it would be out of line to say "You HAVE to be THIS age or it's wrong."
You seem like a very together young lady  :-)

David Moyle wrote:
Yep, I get what you're saying. We pretty much agree on all your points.

:-)
It's all in how you say it & can I just say how nice it is to have an intelligent conversation with someone even if we have divergent points of view, as opposed to some of these threads & conversations where someone comes in and askes a question but has a clear bias/point of view & attacks anyone who challenges it?
Kudos to you, and if your kid grows up that way she should be as together as deadlypoetry  :-)

SLE Photography wrote:

:-)
It's all in how you say it & can I just say how nice it is to have an intelligent conversation with someone even if we have divergent points of view, as opposed to some of these threads & conversations where someone comes in and askes a question but has a clear bias/point of view & attacks anyone who challenges it?
Kudos to you, and if your kid grows up that way she should be as together as deadlypoetry  :-)

I try to be intelligent. Sometimes I fail, but I try

And thank you for your thoughts!

SLE Photography wrote:

Point of fact, what I was saying about magical gaining of maturity is something you expressed better here...everyone's different in that regard  :-)
But you make a great argument for why it would be out of line to say "You HAVE to be THIS age or it's wrong."
You seem like a very together young lady  :-)

thank you very much. i went through a lot to get here (here meaning my prospectives..), but wouldn't trade it for the world.

David Moyle wrote:
Well, except that I don't know that I'd even want to shoot a 16yr old in the style she has in her portfolio, and most of my work I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with her either, even if her parents were with her.

I think you have your answer right there, David.  Trust what feels comfortable for you.  It doesn't have to be right for everyone, just for you.

Shyly wrote:

I think you have your answer right there, David.  Trust what feels comfortable for you.  It doesn't have to be right for everyone, just for you.

That is a good insight, thank you!

Jameson wrote:
David I thought I should respond since I have found myself feeling the same way at times. If you look at my friends list and you look like ANY model on it, come on down and let's get to shooting! My list (so far) has only models on it that represent my ideal shoot. It a matter of what "look" they have.

Maybe you should consider if you would work or correspond with her if she were older. I don't think you should hold it against her for not having worked with you when it is nothing she can do anything about. I think you should make an exception for her.

I like you would have a hard time asking to photograph someone as young (or is it old as?) even 19 to pose nude but if they are asking for you to shoot them, then you are doing them a favor. I tried to think in terms of their careers and how much and early start can help them. If they are bright enough to start posing clothed at 16 I think we should help at least give exposer with maybe a little cautionary advice. I make it a point to adjust my searches down to age 16 because otherwise these younger models can be overlooked.

I felt like a "creepy photographer" warning one 16 year old model that I would ask him to pose shirtless. May he thought so too because the shoot never happened.

So, if I get you right, you're saying I should just send her a "hello, you look to have potential of doing well for yourself" type message (as I would any model I felt that were true of), and just put her on my list and forget about it. And, if she ever asks to shoot with me, just tell her my standards, that a parent would need to be present, and leave it at that.

So, if I get you right, you're saying I should just send her a "hello, you look to have potential of doing well for yourself" type message (as I would any model I felt that were true of), and just put her on my list and forget about it. And, if she ever asks to shoot with me, just tell her my standards, that a parent would need to be present, and leave it at that.

Yes, exactly. You can tell her you will shoot her but in less exotic poses.

Jameson wrote:

Yes, exactly. You can tell her you will shoot her but in less exotic poses.

You make good points! Thanks for taking the time!

David Moyle wrote:
I've been debating over this for a few days now.

I received a friend request from a 16 year-old model that has some rather "sexy"-ish photos in her portfolio, and some "innocent-teen-in-a-swimsuit" photos. Now, these are all professionally taken it would appear, so her parents must be ok with this. But, I can't bring myself to put her on my friends list (given my new policy of only being friends with those I work with or correspond with) as I feel like a "creepy photographer" by doing so.

Am I being unreasonable and weird? Maybe it's the Dad in me.

Underneath all of this is something that has nothing really to do with age.

You don't want anything that will inhibit your comfort level when creating your work. Even if you brought yourself to shoot a teen model, your personal preferences would probably make you feel uncomfortable...and it would affect the result.

Who cares if you're weird (we knew that already...)? Do what brings out the best in you and your work.

David Moyle wrote:
Well, except that I don't know that I'd even want to shoot a 16yr old in the style she has in her portfolio, and most of my work I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with her either, even if her parents were with her.

If you want to shoot her....shoot her in a style that you want to shoot her in.  Explain to her what your style is.

Nihilus wrote:
Who cares if you're weird (we knew that already...)? Do what brings out the best in you and your work.

Damn, and here I thought I had everyone fooled!

David Moyle wrote:
Damn, and here I thought I had everyone fooled!

No, David, we all know you are weird.    It just took some gut to come out of the weird closet. 

David Moyle wrote:
I've been debating over this for a few days now.

I received a friend request from a 16 year-old model that has some rather "sexy"-ish photos in her portfolio, and some "innocent-teen-in-a-swimsuit" photos. Now, these are all professionally taken it would appear, so her parents must be ok with this. But, I can't bring myself to put her on my friends list (given my new policy of only being friends with those I work with or correspond with) as I feel like a "creepy photographer" by doing so.

Am I being unreasonable and weird? Maybe it's the Dad in me.

I think I may have gotten the same request.  Felt a bit wierd to me to so I simply rejected it.  I felt like a "creepy photographer".  (I'm a Dad as well)  No harm done.  Stick with your policy.

Chip Miller wrote:

I think I may have gotten the same request.  Felt a bit wierd to me to so I simply rejected it.  I felt like a "creepy photographer".  (I'm a Dad as well)  No harm done.  Stick with your policy.

It's got to be the Dad thing. I used to not really think about it.

lll wrote:

No, David, we all know you are weird.    It just took some gut to come out of the weird closet. 

It was getting crowded in there!

David Moyle wrote:
...(given my new policy of only being friends with those I work with or correspond with)...
Am I being unreasonable and weird?

Yes.

But, my new policy is to only be friends with people who have a felony arrest record and somewhere you can be sure that someone will think that even that is wierd.

My new doormat.



-Dave

David Moyle wrote:
I've been debating over this for a few days now.

I received a friend request from a 16 year-old model that has some rather "sexy"-ish photos in her portfolio, and some "innocent-teen-in-a-swimsuit" photos. Now, these are all professionally taken it would appear, so her parents must be ok with this. But, I can't bring myself to put her on my friends list (given my new policy of only being friends with those I work with or correspond with) as I feel like a "creepy photographer" by doing so.

Am I being unreasonable and weird? Maybe it's the Dad in me.

I don't think you are being weird or unreasonable at all. as a model who started out young-i'm really aware of the consequences of having sexy pictures taken at young age, apart from anything it can be really hard to escape that stereotype, but there are a some photographers who will exploit her so-called "innocence". I am sure she knows what she is doing, but it's totally understandable that you don't want to be part of it. Why don't you let her know how you feel, you never know she might take on board your feelings and re-examine her choice of pics.
am
xxx