Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
This isn't directed to fashion photographers, but more towards event photographers. Maybe you guys could give me some advice on this.
I've been experience a lot of trouble obtaining my images when I do my dancing gigs on the weekends. One photographer has about a month worth of images, but since his website is being rebuilt, they are not up. My partner has emailed him asking if he can email a few to us, and we even saw him in person and asked if he could email them to us.........we still haven't gotten them.
There's another photographer that will usually post event pics online, but then there are a lot of events that don't get posted. Again, I've tried asking for them and the response I get is "They'll be up soon.". That was around Christmas time.
The most upsetting experience was a club opening I did and this one photographer was taking tons of pictures of my partner and I. He gave us his card and even suggested we collaborate for a shoot. I emailed him about our images from that night and he told that it would cost $20..............for each image. Now, I know many of you photographers need to make a living, but $20?!?!??! Come on. They were not even proffesional! They were regular party pictures taken with an expensive camera. Nothing special. And, we never signed a release form. Maybe there is something I don't know about that would have him charge me like that, but I think he's under the impression that I just don't know any better.
So, my question is, what is the best strategy to get my photos back? My partner and I now bring our own digital cameras, but its not the same as someone else capturing us in motion while we are performing.
Photographer
Special Ed
Posts: 3545
New York, New York, US
Melissa Brouard wrote:
This isn't directed to fashion photographers, but more towards event photographers. Maybe you guys could give me some advice on this.
I've been experience a lot of trouble obtaining my images when I do my dancing gigs on the weekends. One photographer has about a month worth of images, but since his website is being rebuilt, they are not up. My partner has emailed him asking if he can email a few to us, and we even saw him in person and asked if he could email them to us.........we still haven't gotten them.
There's another photographer that will usually post event pics online, but then there are a lot of events that don't get posted. Again, I've tried asking for them and the response I get is "They'll be up soon.". That was around Christmas time.
The most upsetting experience was a club opening I did and this one photographer was taking tons of pictures of my partner and I. He gave us his card and even suggested we collaborate for a shoot. I emailed him about our images from that night and he told that it would cost $20..............for each image. Now, I know many of you photographers need to make a living, but $20?!?!??! Come on. They were not even proffesional! They were regular party pictures taken with an expensive camera. Nothing special. And, we never signed a release form. Maybe there is something I don't know about that would have him charge me like that, but I think he's under the impression that I just don't know any better.
So, my question is, what is the best strategy to get my photos back? My partner and I now bring our own digital cameras, but its not the same as someone else capturing us in motion while we are performing. Best is to move on. As you said, this guys images were nothing special, so you're not losing out on much. Find another photographer and make a contract with everything expected in writing. (how many pictures you get and by what date. As well as what he gets financially per picture) This way there are no surprises.
After you worked out another deal with someone else, contact the other guy and let him know that you're working with someone else and that you'll no longer be needing his services and pictures. He may change his tune and make a deal just to try and get something from you.
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Ed Remington wrote:
Best is to move on. As you said, this guys images were nothing special, so you're not losing out on much. Find another photographer and make a contract with everything expected in writing. (how many pictures you get and by what date. As well as what he gets financially per picture) This way there are no surprises.
After you worked out another deal with someone else, contact the other guy and let him know that you're working with someone else and that you'll no longer be needing his services and pictures. He may change his tune and make a deal just to try and get something from you. I agree.
Photographer
Elite Imaging
Posts: 347
Oak Ridge, Florida, US
I may be missing something here, but I didnt see where you indicated you had any kind of agreement with him at all.
This guy shows up to an event and shoots whatever he can in hopes that the subjects vanity will lead them to thier wallet and purchase his images.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as he is at the venue for the purpose that he represented himself to the management, as to what he was doing.
I go to events on legitimate business all the time and if I am there and I see a model to shoot I will.
Depending on what mood I'm in I will tell her that I will email it to her or if it is a structured situation I might charge for a print or CD.
That is very fair, my gear cost me alot of cash and I am in business to make money.
You were at this event I assume being paid by a promoter and this Photog was secondary to the equasion so he doesnt owe you squat.
Now if you were with contract for his services then thats a different story.
The fact that you said he handed you a card and said that he might want to collaborate in the future tells me he was just trolling and you bit the hook.
When I go to an event I can shoot the hell out of anything I see and offer to sell to the people I shoot, whether it's just a fun shot for thier memory book or a structured shot, it doesnt matter.
It's mine until I offer it to you and I owe you nothing unless we had a contract.
If you dont like those situations you should tell the promoter to not let photographers into the event.
Sorry for your false sense of expectation but you must do your homework if you are going to swm in a shark tank.
Snapshooters that show up to these events without prior arrangements and permission from the promoter to photograph are just buzzards with ill intentions.
Photographer
DarenGray
Posts: 24
Columbia, Alabama, US
that lst post is so on point
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Ed Remington wrote:
Best is to move on. As you said, this guys images were nothing special, so you're not losing out on much. Find another photographer and make a contract with everything expected in writing. (how many pictures you get and by what date. As well as what he gets financially per picture) This way there are no surprises.
After you worked out another deal with someone else, contact the other guy and let him know that you're working with someone else and that you'll no longer be needing his services and pictures. He may change his tune and make a deal just to try and get something from you. He was hired by the club, not me. I'm assuming that the club has made a deal with him to pay him per image.
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Elite Imaging wrote:
I may be missing something here, but I didnt see where you indicated you had any kind of agreement with him at all.
This guy shows up to an event and shoots whatever he can in hopes that the subjects vanity will lead them to thier wallet and purchase his images.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as he is at the venue for the purpose that he represented himself to the management, as to what he was doing.
I go to events on legitimate business all the time and if I am there and I see a model to shoot I will.
Depending on what mood I'm in I will tell her that I will email it to her or if it is a structured situation I might charge for a print or CD.
That is very fair, my gear cost me alot of cash and I am in business to make money.
You were at this event I assume being paid by a promoter and this Photog was secondary to the equasion so he doesnt owe you squat.
Now if you were with contract for his services then thats a different story.
The fact that you said he handed you a card and said that he might want to collaborate in the future tells me he was just trolling and you bit the hook.
When I go to an event I can shoot the hell out of anything I see and offer to sell to the people I shoot, whether it's just a fun shot for thier memory book or a structured shot, it doesnt matter.
It's mine until I offer it to you and I owe you nothing unless we had a contract.
If you dont like those situations you should tell the promoter to not let photographers into the event.
Sorry for your false sense of expectation but you must do your homework if you are going to swm in a shark tank.
Snapshooters that show up to these events without prior arrangements and permission from the promoter to photograph are just buzzards with ill intentions.
Photographer
Monsante Bey
Posts: 2111
Columbus, Georgia, US
Melissa Brouard wrote:
He was hired by the club, not me. I'm assuming that the club has made a deal with him to pay him per image. If you really want them, tell him you'll pay him the "standard" rate of $5 per high res image that you pick out. He doesn't like it, then just say ok and put it behind you.
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Elite Imaging wrote:
I may be missing something here, but I didnt see where you indicated you had any kind of agreement with him at all.
This guy shows up to an event and shoots whatever he can in hopes that the subjects vanity will lead them to thier wallet and purchase his images.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as he is at the venue for the purpose that he represented himself to the management, as to what he was doing.
I go to events on legitimate business all the time and if I am there and I see a model to shoot I will.
Depending on what mood I'm in I will tell her that I will email it to her or if it is a structured situation I might charge for a print or CD.
That is very fair, my gear cost me alot of cash and I am in business to make money.
You were at this event I assume being paid by a promoter and this Photog was secondary to the equasion so he doesnt owe you squat.
Now if you were with contract for his services then thats a different story.
The fact that you said he handed you a card and said that he might want to collaborate in the future tells me he was just trolling and you bit the hook.
When I go to an event I can shoot the hell out of anything I see and offer to sell to the people I shoot, whether it's just a fun shot for thier memory book or a structured shot, it doesnt matter.
It's mine until I offer it to you and I owe you nothing unless we had a contract.
If you dont like those situations you should tell the promoter to not let photographers into the event.
Sorry for your false sense of expectation but you must do your homework if you are going to swm in a shark tank.
Snapshooters that show up to these events without prior arrangements and permission from the promoter to photograph are just buzzards with ill intentions. Well, that's why I posted this was for advice. But in the same respect, I had no clue that the club hired him until he was right there in front of my face snapping away. But you are right. I should have a contract with the photographer or the club to be able to access my images. I'll do that in the future.
For the most part, all the other photographers are more than happy to give you images at no cost.
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Elite Imaging wrote:
I may be missing something here, but I didnt see where you indicated you had any kind of agreement with him at all.
This guy shows up to an event and shoots whatever he can in hopes that the subjects vanity will lead them to thier wallet and purchase his images.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as he is at the venue for the purpose that he represented himself to the management, as to what he was doing.
I go to events on legitimate business all the time and if I am there and I see a model to shoot I will.
Depending on what mood I'm in I will tell her that I will email it to her or if it is a structured situation I might charge for a print or CD.
That is very fair, my gear cost me alot of cash and I am in business to make money.
You were at this event I assume being paid by a promoter and this Photog was secondary to the equasion so he doesnt owe you squat.
Now if you were with contract for his services then thats a different story.
The fact that you said he handed you a card and said that he might want to collaborate in the future tells me he was just trolling and you bit the hook.
When I go to an event I can shoot the hell out of anything I see and offer to sell to the people I shoot, whether it's just a fun shot for thier memory book or a structured shot, it doesnt matter.
It's mine until I offer it to you and I owe you nothing unless we had a contract.
If you dont like those situations you should tell the promoter to not let photographers into the event.
Sorry for your false sense of expectation but you must do your homework if you are going to swm in a shark tank.
Snapshooters that show up to these events without prior arrangements and permission from the promoter to photograph are just buzzards with ill intentions. He did hand me a card talking about collaborating, but he also said to email him for images. He never said anything about the cost. But, you're right, I bit the hook.
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Monsante Bey wrote:
If you really want them, tell him you'll pay him the "standard" rate of $5 per high res image that you pick out. He doesn't like it, then just say ok and put it behind you. That's great advice and that sounds resonable. Thank you very much.
Photographer
Special Ed
Posts: 3545
New York, New York, US
Ed Remington wrote:
Best is to move on. As you said, this guys images were nothing special, so you're not losing out on much. Find another photographer and make a contract with everything expected in writing. (how many pictures you get and by what date. As well as what he gets financially per picture) This way there are no surprises.
After you worked out another deal with someone else, contact the other guy and let him know that you're working with someone else and that you'll no longer be needing his services and pictures. He may change his tune and make a deal just to try and get something from you. Look...A double quote! Hoowaaa!!!
Melissa Brouard wrote:
He was hired by the club, not me. I'm assuming that the club has made a deal with him to pay him per image. OK, but that doesn't mean he owes you any pictures. And the fact that there was no release means nothing. You were in a public place and by being there you gave up any rights to the images. Best you can hope for is working out a better deal (probably get the images for about $10 a peice) but if they're nothing special, why even bother?
Photographer
Elite Imaging
Posts: 347
Oak Ridge, Florida, US
Ed Remington wrote:
Look...A double quote! Hoowaaa!!!
OK, but that doesn't mean he owes you any pictures. And the fact that there was no release means nothing. You were in a public place and by being there you gave up any rights to the images. Best you can hope for is working out a better deal (probably get the images for about $10 a peice) but if they're nothing special, why even bother? Sorry Ed,
I have to correct you on that one.
She was not in a public place, and as long as he had permission from the owner to be there he has every right to shoot anything he wants as outlined in his agreement with the owner.
Looking at it purely from a legal standpoint, unless he has the authorization by the management to shoot her and the owner would have to have specific agreement with her for her to allow her image to be taken.
legally it's a two headed monster, Legally he cant do anything with the images except look at them himself or give them to the owner to look at himself. (Could be used in an editorial for the newspaper, but not a newsletter for the establishment.)
Neither one of them can use her image for any promotion without prior consent unless it's for a picture board on the wall as you see sometimes in places of business depicting employees and patrons having fun in the establishment.
I rather tend to think that if the owner had this guy come in to do docushots it was for that purpose or something similar.
I really think that the OP just had an expectation of entitlement because the guy was shooting her and she felt deserving because it was her being shot.
An unrealistic expectation considering the situation.
If the guy was getting paid by the owner to Docushoot then it would even be unreasonable for her to expect shots at any price or for free because his obligation was to his client, not her.
If the photog was not a greedy turd he might have said,,Let me see if it's ok with the person who hired me if I give you the shots of you since I am already being paid for the shoot.
If the owner agrees then he could say sure, You supply me with a CD and I'll blow out some shots for you for free.
That way he may have greased the wheels with her for a paid shoot in the future.
Then again we ARE probably talking about a Photobuzzard.
Move on girl, and just know the rules next time you play the game, just take the time to see if you are being reasonable as well.
I'm done
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
Ed Remington wrote:
Ed Remington wrote:
Best is to move on. As you said, this guys images were nothing special, so you're not losing out on much. Find another photographer and make a contract with everything expected in writing. (how many pictures you get and by what date. As well as what he gets financially per picture) This way there are no surprises.
After you worked out another deal with someone else, contact the other guy and let him know that you're working with someone else and that you'll no longer be needing his services and pictures. He may change his tune and make a deal just to try and get something from you. Look...A double quote! Hoowaaa!!!
OK, but that doesn't mean he owes you any pictures. And the fact that there was no release means nothing. You were in a public place and by being there you gave up any rights to the images. Best you can hope for is working out a better deal (probably get the images for about $10 a peice) but if they're nothing special, why even bother? Even though they are not the greatest quality images, I still need them to add to my dancing resume if I'm trying to get other gigs. It shows me in full costume and at the establishment.
But, you guys are right. I'm going to move on. It's not worth the headache.
Model
Melissa Brouard
Posts: 54
Hollywood, Alabama, US
O.k., last question. If the photographer is using my images, and he did not have my consent to do so, what would I have to do?
Sorry if I'm asking so many questions, but I would like to educate myself in this area.
Photographer
Ron B Blake
Posts: 497
Macomb, Illinois, US
Photographer
Ron B Blake
Posts: 497
Macomb, Illinois, US
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
Ron B Blake wrote:
wrong
If anyone persons images are posted any were on line
a written release has to be signed allowing for such Nope. If she's out in public at an event, she has no expectation of privacy and anyone could snap a picture and put it up on their website with impugnity.
She's basically out of luck.
Photographer
Elite Imaging
Posts: 347
Oak Ridge, Florida, US
Ron B Blake wrote:
wrong
If anyone persons images are posted any were on line
a written release has to be signed allowing for such
what you need to do is e mail the hosting company of the site and domain
tell them that the photographer hasn't permission to post your images and never gave you images per verbal agreement
you can look up the hosting company here
http://arul.telenet-systems.com
http://www.senderbase.org/search?search … 148.227.87
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jhtml
Sincerely
Ron Blake Sor---ry,
Thats KahKah,
I shoot celebs and race car drivers and mixed audiences all the time and there is no need to have a release for your port or for editorial use.
I shoot for a national magazine and NEVER have to submit or am I asked for a release for editorial content.
If he is using it to promote himself or a product etc. then you have recourse.
Most of the time it is too costly to persue monetary compensation, and who really cares anyway, his images are probably shit.
Move on, get over it, forget the crappy shots, get some more later.
If you are good at what you do, you will be just fine, now go to bed and sleep tight.
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