Forums > General Industry > so how much would you pay?

Photographer

Julia Gerace

Posts: 1889

Monroe, Connecticut, US

all this endless talk about tfp and gwc's and photographers who are actually making the money leads me to this question:

models - how much would you pay a photographer with a good portfolio for a session - given no tfp?   $50? $100? $500? and what would you expect in return?  images? cd? full res? all rights? 

honestly, I read this site and a bunch of others and the difference between the two are really crazy.... anywhere from photographers' charging $150 an hour with a minimum purchase of $250 worth of images (per hour) to photographers having 'modeling' sessions where the sale is over $1500 to photographers who are scraping by doing trades to photographers paying for models....

not trying to start an argument here, just honestly curious..... how much and what would you expect from it?

Jan 27 06 09:50 pm Link

Photographer

StMarc

Posts: 2959

Chicago, Illinois, US

While I'm not a model (pause for collective sigh of relief) I did *talk* to a model tonight who's *also* a very good photographer. She charges the same thing I do for a portfolio shoot: $150 for her, $150 for the makeup artist. (I don't charge for the MUA because I don't provide that service, although if the model wants one I put in her in touch with one and they work out their own price.) She seemed to think that was very reasonable (Given her talent, it is.) and she said she'd be willing to pay it herself for what she provides.

Don't quote me on this, but I think for that you get one print per look and a certain number of files on CD from her. That's also what I give.

M

Jan 28 06 03:02 am Link

Photographer

Jay Bowman

Posts: 6511

Los Angeles, California, US

I'm interested in seeing how this thread develops (I hope it develops, sheesh).  To know what some of these models think they should pay for photo sessions would be interesting.  Why not post this in Model Matters?

Jan 28 06 10:39 am Link

Photographer

La Seine by the Hudson

Posts: 8587

New York, New York, US

There are plenty here who think they should never pay a thing, and a lot of people who shoot that tell them they shouldn't either in this place.

I don't remember meeting too many here who would openly admit that they would pay. The only ones that ever did are the ones who emailed me asking for my rates.

Jan 28 06 10:45 am Link

Photographer

Julia Gerace

Posts: 1889

Monroe, Connecticut, US

I just didn't know if people thought this would be a rude question....should I copy this to that forum?

Jan 28 06 11:09 am Link

Model

Ashlee Yvette

Posts: 26

Washington, District of Columbia, US

I am willing to pay the photographer if I think their portfolio is professional looking. In return I'd expect a CD of images, hopefully with a couple of the best shots retouched, although I am becoming quite skilled with photoshop smile
I think the price range varies depending on the caliber of the person's work.

Ashlee Yvette

Jan 28 06 11:13 am Link

Photographer

JeffM

Posts: 18

Ketchum, Oklahoma, US

I would be interested in hearing from the models how long it took to build a professional portfolio (agency quality) by only doing tfp's.  How many months/years? 

And from those models who paid a professional photographer(s) for immediate and targeted portfolio work and how much of a difference it made (if any) in their modeling careers.

So.... How much difference does it really make?

Thanks,
JeffM

Jan 28 06 11:29 am Link

Photographer

Gold Rush Studio

Posts: 384

Sacramento, California, US

Ashlee Yvette wrote:
I think the price range varies depending on the caliber of the person's work.

As it should. Agreed.

Jan 28 06 11:30 am Link

Photographer

Julia Gerace

Posts: 1889

Monroe, Connecticut, US

of course, I would assume that you'd pay for quality.....that question should have been a non-issue...

Jan 28 06 01:27 pm Link

Photographer

Scott Aitken

Posts: 3587

Seattle, Washington, US

Julia Gerace wrote:
of course, I would assume that you'd pay for quality.....that question should have been a non-issue...

Oh, but it is not!

Sadly, the quality of the images doesn't necessarily have much to do with the price.

There are some very talented hobbyist photographers who can provide very good quality photos for TFP/TFCD. Not always on your own schedule, since they have a regular job, and can only shoot on weekends or whatever. But just because a photographer isn't a "pro" doesn't mean he/she can't make good photos. Just examine their portfolio closely.

Among pros who charge, some are excellent, some are merely competent, and some are downright awful. Their fees don't necessarily reflect their skill (they should, but they don't). Presumably they will be more timely, since it is a job, not a hobby. But their fees reflect whatever they can get away with charging, and their own sense of worth (which may be under or over inflated).

If a model needs good quality, reliable portfolio shots on a deadline, they should find a pro who has a consistent portfolio they like, and pay for a shoot. If a model is in  no hurry, and is willing to experiment with photographers of varying skill levels, then there is little harm in trying a few TFPs with hobbyists (as long as they screen out the pervs).

The reverse is also applicable. If a photographer needs a good reliable model they can count on to deliver a known look on a deadline, then they should pay an experienced model. If they are not in a particular hurry, and are willing to experiment with inexperienced models, then TFP is fine.

What baffles me is completely new inexperienced models or photographers who demand to be paid exorbitant commercial rates, when they have no portfolio to justify it. I laugh when I see MM portfolios full of crappy snapshots or webcam photos, who demand "no TFP, paid only". Dream on.

Sometimes I pay a model, if I need their look and I need it on a schedule, or if it is for a commercial job. Sometimes I charge a model if they need me, and I don't need their look for my portfolio. I typically charge $150/hr. Sometimes I TFP if they are candidates for my art photography. It depends on the situation.

Personally, I almost never give a model a CD of hi-res unedited images, regardless of whether it is a paid or TFP shoot. Really, who wants a whole CD of 200 or 300 hi-res images, most of which are crap? I usually batch process the whole shoot to smaller unedited "proofing images" (600 pixel on the long dimension), and give that to the model. If it is a paid shoot, they can select whichever one's they want, and I'll give them hi-res retouched images. If it is TFP, I'm a little more selective of what they get. I don't want crappy images out there with my name on them, so I will try to steer them to better photos. Then I'll give them a few hi-res images (the quantity of images is negotiated before the shoot). I make exceptions occasionally. There is one model who I've worked with several times, and I know her pretty well, and I know her Photoshop skills are on par with my own. She is artistic and creative. So I trust her with a full set of hi-res images.

Regarding image rights: I grant very limited image rights to TFP models. They can use images I approve of in their portfolio (online and/or print). I don't allow them to edit them without my prior approval. For paid shoots I still retain the copyright, but grant them much broader usage rights; pretty much any use other than commercial relicensing or reselling. I'll even grant them full copyright if they pay me enough. And I give them broader leeway on selecting and self-editing photos, since they are paying for it.

Jan 28 06 02:31 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45475

San Juan Bautista, California, US

What about photographers who pay the models?  I'm one of those!  I've got some models I'm working with whom I pay any where from $50 to $600 ... then I have models who pay me nearly the same amounts.  It depends on a number of factors ... like whom is going to benefit from the images, if there is lingerie or nudity involved, the purpose of the shoot, and who wants to own the copyright completely.  If I want to share the usage of images in a non monetary way such as to post on free websites or in portfolios .. then that is different!

I'm very much for negotiation!  A new model who I have not shot with, and/or has little in her book is going to need to "TFP" with me first before I'd consider hiring her for future work that I do.  It helps to be flexible because we are not all the same.

Jan 28 06 02:46 pm Link

Photographer

Powell Ful Creations

Posts: 577

Buffalo, New York, US

I posted this with not much response.
https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=32984

Mar 06 06 12:33 pm Link

Photographer

Hamza

Posts: 7791

New York, New York, US

If 'New' models request to shoot with me and ask what do I charge, often times I don't.

I am NOT in the business of making money off of prospective or upcoming models.  That kind of money is CHUMP CHANGE!

If I have time and I believe the model has promise or potential, I will agree to shoot her for FREE!

This way I get to shoot instead of sitting on my ass and the potential model gets Pro Pics instead of having to deal with GWC's...

Besides, I remember when I started and all the HOT Models that gave me a little of their time so that I could improve my craft.  It's a way of giving back I guess but that sounds so fucking corny!  It is also a way of Networking.  Every model remembers her FIRST!

Mar 06 06 12:43 pm Link

Photographer

George Rice Photography

Posts: 41

North Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

Mar 06 06 12:47 pm Link

Photographer

George Rice Photography

Posts: 41

North Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

I think that if you hier the photographer it's considered work for hier. The copy right belongs to the model in this case. But this can be quickly signed away. Take a look at wedding contracts. It stated all copy right will remain with the photographer somewhers on the contract. It's the same as if you hiered someone to paint you. You are the owner fo the copyright. You will never get moral rights to the work. All in all the laws are different from stat to state and country to country. If you have an issue, contact a lawyer in this field. I dont have a LLB so what i just typed could amount to a hill of beans smile


Price, hard to say on this one. There is no standard. I guess photographers are going to ask what they think they can get or what they think there time is worth. I would imagine it should be like anything else. Shop around, As the consumer you can say thanks but no thanks. However, if I am paying a photographer I would expect everything, probably on a CD.

Mar 06 06 12:49 pm Link

Model

Tiki

Posts: 57

Seattle, Washington, US

Hi guys-
I dont really know how to answer all of these questions but I guess I can take a stab at it.  I was working in NY through agencies for about 4 years.  What the agencies always told me was to not pay for shoots under any circumstances, and if the photographer really believed in you as a model that they would shoot for free as a test with the intent of mutual benefit.  I am no longer with an agency in NY but want to get back into the modeling, so you can imagine my confusion when I signed on to model mayhem and got messages saying tfp or tfpcd and all of these new terms.  The only ones I understand are paid work, test, and paid test.  I dont really know why I'm posting this because it really isnt that helpfull but you wanted the models perspective and there you have it, lol.
Hope you guys dont feel alone in the confusion,
Tiki

Mar 06 06 01:24 pm Link