Posted by Leila: 
I wish people would take responsibility for their own actions before finding someone else to blame.

Right there is the answer to sooooo many of the problems we have today.

Posted by Leila: 
How can the industry be influecing so many people to be anorexic or belimic if the majority of the country is over weight?

It is important to remember that you can be overweight while still having an eating disorder. In fact, according to research, many people who have eating disorders (particularly bulemia) do end up gaining some weight.

Posted by Jacqui: 

Posted by Leila: 
How can the industry be influecing so many people to be anorexic or belimic if the majority of the country is over weight?

It is important to remember that you can be overweight while still having an eating disorder. In fact, according to research, many people who have eating disorders (particularly bulemia) do end up gaining some weight.

That is very true. Actually I find it very ironic that people will assume just because someone is thin that they have an eating disorder. You can't tell just by looking at a person if they eat well or not.

Posted by Leila: 
I'm sure that everyone here has heard the argument that the fasion industry and media in general influence people outside the industry into having eating disorders. Young girls see all these thin models in magizines and they feel that if they want to be beautiful they have to be thin too.
Now, I'm sure this is true in part but really how many people are becoming anorexic because of the media? I read a lot of medical journels and overall they seem to agree that most americans are overwieght (meaning the wiegh more than what is healthy for their hieght) and that a significant percentage are obese (meaning they are putting there health at risk which will lead to an early death). How can the industry be influecing so many people to be anorexic or belimic if the majority of the country is over weight?
I know this is a sensative subject for many people and I am not trying to upset anyone. I am just sick of people lecturing me about what a horrible person I am for being thin and for being a model cause it makes "average" people feel bad about themselves. I wish people would take responsibility for their own actions before finding someone else to blame.

Bravo for this, Leila.  I think it's crazy that in this consumption-based culture, those who choose not to gorge themselves thrice daily are immediately categorized as having an eating disorder.

Yet it is obesity and obesity-related illness that is the true disorder in this country.  Hundreds of thousands of deaths annually.

I am definitely an eater - albeit a fussy one - but I guess that's why I belong on *this* side of the camera.. .. but a lot of my friends are slim and eat very light by contemporary American standards.  Yet, they are not unhealthy and not obsessive about it.  Also, there is mounting evidence that in mammals, low calorie diets extend life.

A slim girl can expect to hear comments at mealtime like "darling, you are so skinny, you gotta EAT!!"  But, she can't say to someone, "hun, you are so fat, you gotta STARVE!!"

I think we need to get our heads on straight about what is disordered and what isn't.  In my view, 3000 calories a day is a lot more disordered than 800 is.  I realize I'm being arbitrary with those numbers - but my point is that relatively speaking (let's set anecdotes aside, please), anorexia is simply not the health issue in this country that obesity is.  Not even close.

If media were the issue, then we'd be thin.  We're not.

Posted by Shayuma: 
           ~Nearly 10million american females and 1million males have an eating disorder or related condition.

This clearly excludes the 150 million Americans who are overweight and the 75 million of them who are obese.

Posted by Shayuma: 
~75% of American women are dissatisfied with their appearance.

Surprising to me, but only because I'd expect that 100% of Americans are dissatisfied with their appearance.

Posted by Shayuma:
~ 42% of girls in the first - third grades want to be thinner.

What percentage of them are actually overweight and should probably be thinner?  Lotsa fat kids out there.

Posted by Shayuma:
~81% of 10yr old girls are afraid of being fat.

Shouldn't they be?  It's incredibly dangerous.  Being fat kills a lot more people than guns do - yet i bet that if they said they were afraid of loaded guns, we would not bat an eye.

Posted by Shayuma:
Also, did you realize that Americans spend more than $40 BILLION dollars per year on dieting and dieting related products?

And how much do they spend on sugar and fat?

Like I said above, I'm not trying to be insensitive, but there is (pun not intended) an elephant in the room here, and no one addresses it.  Americans are FAT.  Nearly all of us (myself included) eat way too much. 

Posted by Anthony Citrano: 

Posted by Shayuma: 
           ~Nearly 10million american females and 1million males have an eating disorder or related condition.

This clearly excludes the 150 million Americans who are overweight and the 75 million of them who are obese.

LOL please oh please tell me where you got your "facts" from? During the past 20 years, obesity among adults has risen significantly in the United States. The latest data from the National Center for Health Statistics show that 30 percent of U.S. adults 20 years of age and older - over 60 million people - are obese.

This increase is not limited to adults. The percentage of young people who are overweight has more than tripled since 1980. Among children and teens aged 6-19 years, 16 percent (over 9 million young people) are considered overweight. So basically...there are over 69 million people who are overweight/obese.

Now...where did you get 150 million americans who are overweight and 75 million who are obese? There are only 296,322,486 people who live in the united states!

www.census.gov/population/www/index.html

Whenever I post facts, I let my sources be known.

Posted by Leila: 
That is very true. Actually I find it very ironic that people will assume just because someone is thin that they have an eating disorder. You can't tell just by looking at a person if they eat well or not.

I agree, but I would be interested to see who is willing to use this argument for only the "thin" people but not the "fat" people.

Posted by Leila:

posted by anthony
~Nearly 10million american females and 1million males have an eating disorder or related condition.

This clearly excludes the 150 million Americans who are overweight and the 75 million of them who are obese.

True, compulsive over eating is one type of eating disorder. That commonly gets neglected.

Yes, agreed.  But I didn't mean compulsive overeating - I am talking about the massive chunk of our population who simply eat too much.

Posted by Shayuma: 

Posted by Anthony Citrano: 
This clearly excludes the 150 million Americans who are overweight and the 75 million of them who are obese.

LOL please oh please tell me where you got your "facts" from? During the past 20 years, obesity among adults has risen significantly in the United States. The latest data from the National Center for Health Statistics show that 30 percent of U.S. adults 20 years of age and older - over 60 million people - are obese.

I don't know what's so funny.  Before you ridicule me, read closely.  I said 150 million Americans are overweight, and 75 million of them are obese.  Meaning, half the overweight ones are obese.  I mean, you can't be obese without being overweight, can you?  If so, please show me these people.  I bet they look really weird.

I had no direct source for my facts, I was just doing some  4th-grade math.  I know that there's about 300 million people in the US.  I know that about half of them are overweight.  I know about half of those people are obese. 

And, a quick visit just now to the CDC's web site showed me I might have been a bit too forgiving.  The CDC says that 60% of Americans are overweight, and half of that group are obese.  So, based on your counsel, I'll revise my estimate upwards.

180 million Americans are overweight.  90 million of them are obese. 

Now tell me anorexia is a big problem.

Posted by Shayuma: 
Whenever I post facts, I let my sources be known.

Really?  You didn't seem to source your survey.

Perhaps I rely too heavily on my own intellect.  So-called "facts" can be very misleading.  Often the wrong questions are asked in such research or the questions themselves have assumptions baked in.  Having worked with professional pollsters, in politics and in business, I can tell you that you can "prove" just about anything you want with "facts".

Posted by Anthony Citrano: 

Posted by Shayuma: 

Posted by Anthony Citrano: 

Posted by Shayuma: 
Whenever I post facts, I let my sources be known.

Really?  You didn't seem to source your survey.



My sources:

1. CPE (CERFIFIED Peer Educator) of The Bacchus & Gamma Peer Education Network ~This means I am CERTIFIED to speak on knowledge of this magnatude because I have been through extensive TRAINING

2. ANAD (National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders) ~ This in particular is from my survey.

Anthony, if you would like for me to discuss the ill effects of Bulimia or Binge Eating please let me know. You seem to be more pro-starvation than anything else. Since you like to only counter my information on the issues of anorexia, just let me know, and I have no problem dropping additional knowledge to you about over-eating as well.

Have a great day,
~Shayuma

Posted by Shayuma: 
Whenever I post facts, I let my sources be known.

Really?  You didn't seem to source your survey.

Perhaps I rely too heavily on my own intellect.  So-called "facts" can be very misleading.  Often the wrong questions are asked in such research or the questions themselves have assumptions baked in.  Having worked with professional pollsters, in politics and in business, I can tell you that you can "prove" just about anything you want with "facts".

Ok one more quick point. So are you saying that "your own intellect" is less misleading that someone who states scientific research?! Your "intellect" is nothing more than your "opinion" you can't even hold up a strong argument on anything that you have said thus far.

But like I said...if you would like for me to discuss over-eating disorders or binge eating, I have no problem with. It just really errks my nerves when people who have no true knowledge of the subject just rant and rave about what they "think" is the answer when there are people who have devoted YEARS of study to the subject in question and have actually collected facts.

Posted by Shayuma: 
My sources:

1. CPE (CERFIFIED Peer Educator) of The Bacchus & Gamma Peer Education Network ~This means I am CERTIFIED to speak on knowledge of this magnatude because I have been through extensive TRAINING

The above is a credential, not a source.  As to whether it's training or being programmed with a certain point of view, the jury may be out.  I am quite ignorant of that organization so I don't know.  I think I remember being quite ticked at an OpEd I read of theirs once - where they carried on and on about responsible use of alcohol (a very noble pursuit) and then started in about how taking ecstasy was like playing Russian Roulette.  But maybe that wasn't them.

Posted by Shayuma:
2. ANAD (National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders) ~ This in particular is from my survey.

And isn't it fair to say that ANAD has a vested interest in convincing people that anorexia is a bigger problem than it really is?

Posted by theda: 

I have a friend who was ED-NOS. She had starved herself to the point where she had no menstrual cycle for over a year. She dropped from a size 12 to a size 4. But she was not anorexic because she did not meet the weight requirement for anorexia. I, on the other hand, meet that requirement, but I've never been amenstrual so I could not be considered anorexic. Of course, I don't meet many of the other criteria for anorexia either, just the body wieght percentage.

As far as I know anorexia isnt about how much you wiegh but more about how you eat. You can be underwieght but if you eat normally you are not anorexic. Your friend was a size 4 which doesn't sound that small but if she was starving herself than thats anorexia. I'm not even a 4, I'm one of those people who has to search for a size zero if i want anything to actually fit me. But I'm not anorexic cause honestly I eat a lot. Just being thin does not make you anorexic...although many people will just assume that you are which is really annoying.

Posted by Leila: 
As far as I know anorexia isnt about how much you wiegh but more about how you eat. You can be underwieght but if you eat normally you are not anorexic. Your friend was a size 4 which doesn't sound that small but if she was starving herself than thats anorexia.

It's both. Here are the DSM IV critera for anorexia. Note that A and D are physiological conditions. If the subject maintains a normal weight (i.e. does not meet critereon A), it is considered a form of ED-NOS (eating disorder not otherwise specified). It is by definition impossible to be of normal weight or above normal weight and suffer from anorexia nervosa.

A. Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height (eg, weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight less than 85% of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth, leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected).

B. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.

C. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight.

D. In postmenarchal females, amenorrhea ie, the absence of at least three consecutive cycles. (A woman is considered to have amenorrhea if her periods occur only following hormone, eg, estrogen administration.)

Leila wrote:
I'm sure that everyone here has heard the argument that the fasion industry and media in general influence people outside the industry into having eating disorders. Young girls see all these thin models in magizines and they feel that if they want to be beautiful they have to be thin too.
Now, I'm sure this is true in part but really how many people are becoming anorexic because of the media? I read a lot of medical journels and overall they seem to agree that most americans are overwieght (meaning the wiegh more than what is healthy for their hieght) and that a significant percentage are obese (meaning they are putting there health at risk which will lead to an early death). How can the industry be influecing so many people to be anorexic or belimic if the majority of the country is over weight?
I know this is a sensative subject for many people and I am not trying to upset anyone. I am just sick of people lecturing me about what a horrible person I am for being thin and for being a model cause it makes "average" people feel bad about themselves. I wish people would take responsibility for their own actions before finding someone else to blame.

I've suffered bouts of both compulsive eating(well i'm still a compulsive eater) and bulimia(7months ago). I wouldn't put my issues on the media, or you(though your no longer a member). I realize that your not really answering a question, but i'll answer it anyway. We've always looked up to celebrities to determine, what we wear(bell bottoms), how we style out hair(the rachel) and what kind of body we admire(from marilyn to kate). But lately, the body we admire and strive for has become impossible, even for the celebrities to achieve. Anybody could have a body kind of like marilyn, or sophia, or Elizabeth...hell anyone could have a body like Cindy and Claudia. They're all healthy looking woman so striving to look like that(toned and fit) really wasn't an issue. But now trying to look like Kate Moss, or Paris hilton, or Mischa Barton...do you see the problem?

Like i said before, I have my own issues and i'm not going to blame them on the media, but it's very silly to say "how can they be influencing this many people" ...when they've been doing it since the media existed.

Leila wrote:
I'm sure that everyone here has heard the argument that the fasion industry and media in general influence people outside the industry into having eating disorders. Young girls see all these thin models in magizines and they feel that if they want to be beautiful they have to be thin too.

The terms influence and cause are two different things.
Influence: the effect of one thing (or person) on another
Cause: event(s) that provide the generative force that is the origin of something
Influence is not necessarily cause. . .though one can very well impact the other.

Leila wrote:
Now, I'm sure this is true in part but really how many people are becoming anorexic because of the media?

Remember that "cause" is different from "influence."  What people see may indeed cause them to act/react in a certain way. . .hence the action/reaction was "influcenced" by what they saw.  It was not necessarily the cause, because their "action/reaction" was the actual cause.  For all intents and purposes, let's say that Sally Sue Smith, is a 23 year old adult and fully capable of making her own decisions.  Let's say that Sally lives in NYC and her best friend is a runway fashion model.  Sally is 5'7" and her best friend is 5'10".  Now Sally knows that she will never be 5'10" but. . .she CAN lose weight.  Sally weighs 180 and her best friend weighs 125 or so.

Sally hears the reports about how America is overweight by and large and she is not happy when she looks in the mirror.  Her confidence is at a standstill because her best friend leads what outwardly appears to be a very glamorous life.  She gets to pose for pictures, she gets to travel all over the world and wear the creme de la creme of couture. . .when they go out, men ignore Sally and flirt with her friend while she remains at the bar to watch their handbags.  Overall, Sally is not happy.  Not depressed, but not happy. 

How Sally feels inside is only compounded by what she sees on television: the thin chic getting the guy, the thin chic in the commercials, the thin chic is portrayed as sexy, thin thin thin is everywhere she turns.  So. . .Sally tries to become thin.  She has been convinced by everything around her that because she is NOT thin, she will be passed over for jobs for being perceived as lazy (thanks to a 20/20 report, the "attractive" get jobs easier), she will never get the guy because guys are more attracted to thin women than not so thin women, and the list goes on and on.  Moreover, she lives in the shadow of this perception because she "sees" the difference in how she is treated compared to her thin best friend. . .the fashion model.

At this juncture, Sally is confronted with a choice.  That choice will be "influenced" by how she feels and thinks.  No matter what happens, those affects were "caused" by this choice she makes.

That's how I see it.

Leila wrote:
I read a lot of medical journels and overall they seem to agree that most americans are overwieght (meaning the wiegh more than what is healthy for their hieght) and that a significant percentage are obese (meaning they are putting there health at risk which will lead to an early death). How can the industry be influecing so many people to be anorexic or belimic if the majority of the country is over weight?

Over eating is an eating disorder also.  There are tons of medical journals that state most over weight people are "emotional eaters" and have "comfort foods".  How many jokes are there about grabbing some Haagen Daz to make yourself feel better?  Think about it.  If you find comfort in food. . .and you're unhappy most of the time. . .you eat more, gain more weight, etc etc.

Leila wrote:
I know this is a sensative subject for many people and I am not trying to upset anyone. I am just sick of people lecturing me about what a horrible person I am for being thin and for being a model cause it makes "average" people feel bad about themselves. I wish people would take responsibility for their own actions before finding someone else to blame.

I'm truly sorry you have to go through that.  No one should feel badly about themselves based on another person.  I try to see both sides of the coin though.  I will admit that I'm not overly enthusiastic about how society perceives that because I'm short and wear a size 18/20 I'm never going to be considered sexy. . .unless it's by some perv with a warped sense of sexuality.  I think that sexy is a measure of your own confidence. 

I also think that women are far too hard on themselves as a gender.  We will never ever be satisfied with ourselves as long as there is another woman on the planet.  Our boobs aren't perfect.  Our skin isn't perfect.  Even if we have what society deems a "perfect body" we will still find fault.  "I could have longer hair" or "I wish my teeth were whiter".  It will always and forever be something with us. . .and until women change. . .that will always be so.

Anthony Citrano wrote:
Bravo for this, Leila.  I think it's crazy that in this consumption-based culture, those who choose not to gorge themselves thrice daily are immediately categorized as having an eating disorder.

Yet it is obesity and obesity-related illness that is the true disorder in this country.  Hundreds of thousands of deaths annually.

Kudos.  Good to know that you can so easily lump all obese into a category of gorgers.  Nevermind the "facts".  Kudos.

Fact: Most obese people don't eat any more than thin people.  Their bodies metabolize food differently (typically a lot more slowly).
-Source: Discovery Health Channel

Fact: April 20, 2000 report in JAMA by CDC states that data showed increased mortality associated with being underweight or obese, compared with being normal weight, and a lower risk of death among those who are overweight.
-Source: American Diabetes Association, June 2005

Fact: Health risks associated with being underweight are just as significant and dangerous as being over weight.  Anemia and nutrient deficiencies, bone loss and osteopororsis, heart irregularities and blood vessel diseases, increased vulnerability to infection and disease, and delayed wound healing to name a few.
-Source: Mayo Clinic Women's Healthsource

So I do hope this wasn't a blanket assumption. . .that since heart disease was one of the leading causes of death in the US, that it must be obesity related.  Athletes, underweight people and normal weight people are all at risk for heart disease related illnesses. . .just like over weight people.  And actually, smoking elevates this risk.

Shayuma wrote:
Great topic Leila! I am a certified peer educator at my school and we talk to various orgs on campus, and around about the effects of eating disorders and body image. So I'm not just someone giving my "opinion" on the subject, but the FACTS!

1.How can the industry be influecing so many people to be anorexic or belimic if the majority of the country is over weight?
           ~Nearly 10million american females and 1million males have an eating disorder or related condition.
            ~75% of American women are dissatisfied with their appearance.
            ~ 42% of girls in the first - third grades want to be thinner.
            ~81% of 10yr old girls are afraid of being fat.
            ~51% of nine and 10yr old girls report feeling better about themselves if they are on a diet.

Also, did you realize that Americans spend more than $40 BILLION dollars per year on dieting and dieting related products?

If anyone would like to talk with me more about this subject, you can send me a private message or contact: National Eating Disorders Association
603 Stewart Street, Suite 803 Seattle, WA 98101
(206)382-3587

I have more to say in this topic, but I'll just sit back an wait to see what others have written, instead of writing one GIGANTIC post.

Hope this was helpful to everyone!
~Shayuma

another fact... OBESITY is a far bigger health problem in the United States.

Anthony Citrano wrote:
I don't know what's so funny.  Before you ridicule me, read closely.  I said 150 million Americans are overweight, and 75 million of them are obese.  Meaning, half the overweight ones are obese.  I mean, you can't be obese without being overweight, can you?  If so, please show me these people.  I bet they look really weird.

I had no direct source for my facts, I was just doing some  4th-grade math.  I know that there's about 300 million people in the US.  I know that about half of them are overweight.  I know about half of those people are obese.

An article from the BBC says 119 million or 64.5% of Americans are either obese or overweight.  And according to the New Zealand Herald, 30.6% of Americans are obese. . .just a little support for what you're saying.   

Anthony Citrano wrote:
And, a quick visit just now to the CDC's web site showed me I might have been a bit too forgiving.  The CDC says that 60% of Americans are overweight, and half of that group are obese.  So, based on your counsel, I'll revise my estimate upwards.

180 million Americans are overweight.  90 million of them are obese. 

Now tell me anorexia is a big problem.


Really?  You didn't seem to source your survey.

Perhaps I rely too heavily on my own intellect.  So-called "facts" can be very misleading.  Often the wrong questions are asked in such research or the questions themselves have assumptions baked in.  Having worked with professional pollsters, in politics and in business, I can tell you that you can "prove" just about anything you want with "facts".