Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Have you ever noticed how many people hold a boquet of shite in your face and tell you that it smells like roses?

Models and photographers both do this. You know the type I mean? The suspicious ones. The "kinda shady ones" that say a few things that just don't add up.

Like they list a bunch of high-profile clients, but have no tear-sheets in the portfolio. Or they brag about the tons of money they make in "the industry" but you look at their website and it was done with FrontPage or is hosted on GeoCities.

Hm. I dunno about these people trying to be more than they are. It's weird to me. I don't understand it.

I COMPLETELY understand striving to actually BECOME more than you are. But to bullshit about it? Seems counterproductive to me.

For me, I just tell it like it is. I don't have a client list and my tearsheets are quite laughable. I'm just a hobbist photographer who makes no money with photography and has no clue what he is doing. In the words of Indiana Jones, "I'm just makin' this up as I go."

i know exactly what you are talking about. those types don't realize that if they post of bunch of threads, some people will start remembering them and their statements. regardless of experience or artistic merit, honesty seems to be the best policy.

T H Taylor wrote:
You know...
Making it up as you go (i think) is one fo the things that makes a good shooter... great.
Me:   I use this site as a means to communicate with others that are interested in my field... Not to show off the size of my "Junk (Which is so big, it has it's own legal team!  It' so huge, it has it's own avatar!!!  etc.)"

I like this answer   lol
but really I hate when ppl do that. I have worked with some magazines and different clients in the so-cal area,but the work done for them doesn't reflect where I want to go with my career, so I don't show it or talk about it. oh well

BCG wrote:
im not a photographer...i am just a singer in a rock and roll band.

I have your album,  "Jar Jar Binks sings the blues"

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
I COMPLETELY understand striving to actually BECOME more than you are. But to bullshit about it? Seems counterproductive to me.

A guy I knew and respected for years in my industry turned out to be a pathological liar about his past. You can imagine my surprise when I dug into the claims of my erstwhile drinking buddy and discovered that most of what I "knew" about him was not true. In fact, I felt stupid, which made me feel angry.

Now, I think about it and I feel kind of bad for him. Is his reality so lame that he prefers the fiction? That's kind of pathetic, really. Life is pretty fan-fing-tastic as far as I can tell. Being a busboy at a Dennys', like GWC, is pretty cool, if you think about it, especially when he turns out such great photos. In fact, I think that if my job was to pick up poop at the circus after the elephants came through - how cool would that be? I could probably get lots of dates with hot chicks because, after all, how many people get such an up close view of such amazing creatures? Think of the bragging rights!!

So, Eric, I am totally in agreement with you. With the minor caveat that I can see occasions where knowingly exaggerating might be the one key piece to getting a big break - then "go for it" I say. Bullsh*tting others is always a lesser sin than bullsh*tting yourself, right?

mjr.

Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
In fact, I think that if my job was to pick up poop at the circus after the elephants came through - how cool would that be? I could probably get lots of dates with hot chicks because, after all, how many people get such an up close view of such amazing creatures? Think of the bragging rights!!

While I agree with most of your post ... I think your theory on hot chcks liking guys who clean elephant poop MIGHT be slightly misguided.

Let's ask. Any elephant-poop-cleaners in the audience?

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:

While I agree with most of your post ... I think your theory on hot chcks liking guys who clean elephant poop MIGHT be slightly misguided.

Let's ask. Any elephant-poop-cleaners in the audience?

No, but I think I was in a past life... My dating experience will verify this.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Like they list a bunch of high-profile clients, but have no tear-sheets in the portfolio. Or they brag about the tons of money they make in "the industry" but you look at their website and it was done with FrontPage or is hosted on GeoCities.

Are you saying that a person is any LESS of a photographer because he/she uses FrontPage?

Wow.

Are we supposed to be photographers or webmasters????

I take exception to this, as my online portfolio isn't as good as my online portfolio. Why? Because I choose not to spend the time to duplicate my offline efforts to my website, don't make the majority of my money online, and what I have online right now is fine with me. It does the trick

My tearsheets? In my portfolio.
My money? In the bank.
My website design? Frontpage.

Who gives a rat's ass about WHERE or HOW your site is hosted, as long as you have a place to showcase your talents?

I've seen some photographers on sites like OMP that don't even have their own website, and prefer to just host their pictures there. Are they any LESS of a photographer?

*smh*

Sometimes this place can be so bass ackwards in the way people are judged.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Any elephant-poop-cleaners in the audience?

If it gets me SLAMMIN' chicks I am totally going to change careers!!

GWC!

John Jebbia wrote:
i use dreamweaver to design my site.. am i part of the club?

You have to use straight HTML, or you're in the club, too.

VRG Photography wrote:
You have to use straight HTML, or you're in the club, too.

Dreamweaver writes straight HTML... Or do you mean hand-writing HTML in a text editor? I wrote my first web pages using vi but I switched to dreamweaver because I got sick of tracking all the silly tags. HTML is bullsh*t. Berners-Lee deserved a beating not a knighthood.

GWC!

William Kious wrote:
The one thing I can't stand: those who claim to be starting a clothing line, new magazine, agency, website, etc.  Of course, rarely - if ever - is anything tangible produced.

Are you talkin' about my SLAMMIN' magazine?!?!?!



GWC!

VRG Photography wrote:
Are you saying that a person is any LESS of a photographer because he/she uses FrontPage?

Wow.

Are we supposed to be photographers or webmasters????

Sometimes this place can be so bass ackwards in the way people are judged.

Business is all about being judged on first-appearances and professionalism. Photography and modeling are judged on appearances more than any other business in the world.

Therefore, yes, a photographer or model with a lame website IS less of a photographer or model. Because a crappy website proves they are lazy and don't care about the presentation or appearance of their business.

The best photographers hire people to build professional websites for them so they can give a high-quality, polished, professional impression to clients in EVERY facet of their business - from their studio space, to their business cards, to the quality of their equipment and gear, to the quality of their images and photos in the portfolio.

Yes, I absolutely think that a photographer or model with a poorly-done website or homemade business-cards done on their inkjet printer is less professional, less talented, and less serious about their craft than those who put forth the time and effort to make every possible aspect of their work as highly refined as they can.

GWC wrote:

Are you talkin' about my SLAMMIN' magazine?!?!?!



GWC!

Hate to burst your bubble but... She's better than a 5 1/2!!!!

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
Business is all about being judged on first-appearances and professionalism. Photography and modeling are judged on appearances more than any other business in the world.

Therefore, yes, a photographer or model with a lame website IS less of a photographer or model. Because a crappy website proves they are lazy and don't care about the presentation or appearance of their business.

The best photographers hire people to build professional websites for them so they can give a high-quality, polished, professional impression to clients in EVERY facet of their business - from their studio space, to their business cards, to the quality of their equipment and gear, to the quality of their images and photos in the portfolio.

Yes, I absolutely think that a photographer or model with a poorly-done website or homemade business-cards done on their inkjet printer is less professional, less talented, and less serious about their craft than those who put forth the time and effort to make every possible aspect of their work as highly refined as they can.

Less of a "photographer?"  Or less of a marketing photographer?  Let's make the distinction before we put too many people down.  There are too many examples of geniuses who never could figure out how to make a dime.

GWC wrote:

Dreamweaver writes straight HTML... Or do you mean hand-writing HTML in a text editor?

That's what I'm talking about.

I used to do that when I first started playing around with websites, but abandoned that after a while. Took too much time away from my photography.

VRG Photography wrote:
LOL

Do you ever sleep, Mollie?

If ummmmm LA LA Landers movers and shakers would
REMEMER that ATL is THREE freaking hours AHEAD
of them...and set up phone conferences at a DECENT
FREAKING time...I would have BEEN in bed three hours ago.
((snort))

mollie_lane wrote:

If ummmmm LA LA Landers movers and shakers would
REMEMER that ATL is THREE freaking hours AHEAD
of them...and set up phone conferences at a DECENT
FREAKING time...I would have BEEN in bed three hours ago.
((snort))

LOL

Gotcha.

BTW, you may want to get that snort checked. It's quite common for people who have late night phone conferences, and is specific to Atlanta based models.

That being said, I'M going to bed now, so I won't catch it here in Chicago.

VRG Photography wrote:
Be it Frontpage, Dreamweaver, HTML text editor, or homing pigeon, if a person feels they can accomplish what they need to with what they have on their website, and they can make money from it, who cares?

Ohhhhhhhhh.

That's different.

You're talking about making money.

I was talking about people who take pride in their work to the point that EVERY facet of one's business/professional presentation is 100% world-class and top-notch.

Any photographer who really is making money at their craft AND takes pride in their work will spend the money to make sure everything they do is the absolute best it can be. I don't think a master-photographer like Sacha Dean Biyan bothers to print his own business cards or build his own website. He takes pride in his work and reinvests his money into making every aspect of his photography business the best it can be.

But if a photographer just wants to make money, I agree with you. They won't bother with the finer details of their professional appearance. Make a FrontPage website. Use a point-and-shoot camera. Hang bedsheet backdrops. Get business cards at Kinkos. Why not, right? As long as you're making money, who cares?

AustinModelPhotographer wrote:
Less of a "photographer?"  Or less of a marketing photographer?  Let's make the distinction before we put too many people down.  There are too many examples of geniuses who never could figure out how to make a dime.

Yes. Less of a photographer. Absolutely. And I don't give a crap who feels "put down" by that. Screw 'em. Because if they don't care about making EVERYTHING the best, then they will slack off in the quality of their photography too. What they shoot will be sub-par because everything in life is interconnected.

I do agree that MANY bright people can't figure out how to make a dime. I never said anything about a person's financial-success being in any way related to the care they put into what they do. Reread my post. I never mentioned money anywhere at all (except for acknowledging that I never make any)(chuckle). Plenty of talented and skilled people never make a nickle. That's true.

Not that I'm one of them. I don't think I'm talented or skilled. I just have fun taking pictures. But I do try to take pride in every facet of it and make every element the best it can be.

VRG Photography wrote:

LOL

Gotcha.

BTW, you may want to get that snort checked. It's quite common for people who have late night phone conferences, and is specific to Atlanta based models.

That being said, I'M going to bed now, so I won't catch it here in Chicago.

Cowarddddddd...I wonder why...It is the BEST Southern nonverbal polite way of expressing VERY impolite and colorful thoughts. 

GWC wrote:

Are you talkin' about my SLAMMIN' magazine?!?!?!



GWC!

Hell, your magazine rocks.

GWC wrote:
Are you talkin' about my SLAMMIN' magazine?!?!?!

17 NUDE Slightly above-average girls inside!

That is freakin' genius.

Brian Hillburn wrote:
I'm also a hobyist that makes no money. I've been planning to do my website for the last 10 months. I have Dreamweaver and the book that teaches me how to do it. My business cards were done on my home printer (canon 9900).However, I never get around to it because I'm always browsing this cool site. Maybe that's why I don't make any money either. But I still love what I do.

That's cool. See, the whole point of this thread is people who insist that bullshit smells like flowers.

I respect a person like you, because you admit who and what you are, and you're doing the best you can with what you've got. That's cool. Nothing wrong with that.

But people who claim to be "working professionals" and every aspect of what they do is sub-par (from their photos down to their free Yahoo-website with pop-up ads), I say they are full of a lot of bullshit and I'm not going to play along and tell them they smell like daffodils.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
they brag about the tons of money they make in "the industry" but you look at their website and it was done with FrontPage or is hosted on GeoCities.

They could be crackheads?

Model Sarah wrote:

They could be crackheads?

Bobbleheads, maybe.

Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:

Bobbleheads, maybe.

ah yes the old bobblehead


*shudders