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Just A Curious Question!
Okay so here's the deal! This month I've had 4 photographers ask me for my rates and I'd kindly send them my site so they can review my rates but NONE have replyed back to let me know if they are interested or not. So, here's the question to photographers. If you ask a model for her rates and you review her rates and maybe think they are too high and you're not interested in working with the model. Do you contact the model to let them know you are not interested? Or no and just ignore the fact? Maybe these photographers thought my rates were too high perhpas. Jun 06 05 03:29 am Link Regardless of whether, or not your rates are too high, out of courtesy, people should reply. Sometimes, competitors (typically newbees) send a fake e-mail, which is why one should probably consider asking for a phone number as a response to their rate queries. Just to make sure it's not another model trying to glean your working knowledge. Jun 06 05 03:41 am Link If the rate is outrageously high - and that is a movable line depending of where they are, how much experience they have, what they will shoot, how adament they come off about that rate ( i.e. "RATES NOT NEGOTIABLE") etc, etc - then I just chuckle and not get back to them. If the rates are more than I'd like to pay but I find some wiggle room and they seem like good people, and I think the shoot will be really good, I'll email back and try and haggle a bit. But then I only pay for nude or sheer, and only with models who appear to have an understanding and passion for art, which of course I can only base on their words and images. After being at this a few years I can spot the "I'm only here for money" "I'm God's gift to Men" "I don't know about art but I can get any man hard" "You should be lucky I'm even talking to you" types Jun 06 05 03:55 am Link Jun 06 05 03:57 am Link Hmm. Honestly, the professional thing to do would be for them to let you know their reasons. Then, again, I've been honest with a few models about not wanting to work with them (in the nicest, politest way possible) and have received very snide replies. Kind of makes me want to not even bother answering referrals. Curious about something though. On your portfolio, it lists that you want pay+CD. What kind of feedback have you received on that? Honestly, if I see something like that on a port, it generally discourages me from trying to book that model. Just curious. Not trying to be critical. Jun 06 05 03:57 am Link Posted by CO Model Amber: The polite thing would be to send a reply thanking you for your response and letting you know they were interested or not. But most of us have forgotten courtesy with the 'net being so easy to hide behind an email address. Jun 06 05 04:07 am Link I know my rates arnt high. I've been told many times my rates are too low/cheap. But, I agree they should be professional and contact me back rather they are interested or not. Thanks for the replys so far. :Smile: Jun 06 05 04:09 am Link I have a problem with models not responding. Whether model, MUA. Photographer, or whatever, the professional thing is to respond. When I find rates are more than I am willing to pay for, what ever reason, Ill make a counter offer. I expect a response whether or not there is room for negotiation. For various reasons there is often negotiating space. Sometimes the photographers work doesnt interest a model enough to reduce rates. Sometimes models (MUAs, etceteras) dont meet the requirements of a photographer. In those cases negotiation may be limited. Were in business to make money; sometimes half a loaf is better than no loaf. Many novice people dont seem to understand that concept; holding out for their full rates and inflated egos and ending up with an empty cup. ....Thom Jun 06 05 04:49 am Link Posted by Patrick Walberg: Good question. Jun 06 05 10:02 am Link Some might not be writing back because they think your rates are too high. Some might just be models scoping out other models' rates. But I suspect most jus are flakey and not really serious. I get emails like that all the time. Usually it's something simple like "what are your rates for a 3 hour photo session?" and when I ask what kind of photo session and what the usage of the shots is, I'll never hear from them again. Jun 06 05 11:02 am Link Sometimes when a model's rates are too high, I feel embarassed to send a message telling her so. So, I simply avoid asking. Yeah, I'm a wuss. But, if I do ask and they are not to my liking I've said "Sorry, but your rates are too high for my budget. Thank you." Jun 06 05 11:16 am Link It may be because your rates are too high for them...that doesnt mean your rates are too high in general. A lot of people email me for rates, maybe 50% reply, thats normal. My rates are right in line for what I do in my market but very high compared with most people you will find on the internet and very high for areas outside of NY and LA. Here is how I determain rates............... I set my rates to keep me working full time and to weed out the work I don't need. If you are working steady, your rates are probably in line with your worth. If you are working too much and turning down a lot of work because your already booked your rates are too low. If you are not working enough your rates may be too high. Thats the way I judge it for myself...my comfortable work week is about 4 days a week, I can't handle more and I get bored with less. So as I model I would decide how often I wanted to work and then set my rates to keep me just as busy as I want to be. This is why I don't put my rates on my site anymore, if I am having a really busy month my rates may go up for that busy time period....If I am having a slow month and I'm bored I may want to do something that sounds fun and creative even though it isn't paying full rate. Jun 06 05 11:22 am Link I initiate the conversation with my rates request. Model ends the conversation with her reply. If I reply with a "no thanks, price is too high" I feel like I'm antagonizing someone I may still want to do business with. Jun 06 05 01:47 pm Link I feel your pain. It's like when we ask a model if she'd like to work with us, and instead of saying no thank you, they just don't respond back. Jun 06 05 02:15 pm Link I haven't read the whole thread, and probably will repeat some of the sentiments already expressed, but I through my 2 cents in (give or take 2 cents). I may or may not reply for several reasons. If the model seems professional and courteous in her reply to my inquiry but her rates are just outside of my budget, then I will probably respond to be polite. However, if I see something that "turns me off", I will often not respond. Not knowing specifically how you responded to these individuals, I'm not passing judgement, but a response saying something to the effect of simply "see my website for rates" would probably turn me off if I had provided specific details about a shoot. If I provide specifics, I want a specific number back. On the other hand, if I'm just asking in general, a website with a list of rates for different types of shoots would be fine. If I send a general request and get the impression that rates are "firm", I probably wouldn't respond (unless again you were very courteous). Actually, I think I've only ever ignored one model who responded to my initial request. In my first email I specifically asked for her rates for a beach shoot, and she responded with "I don't do TFP but email me if you want my rates." That kind of put me off, but if I hadn't had other things come up, I probably would have replied anyway asking for her rate. Oh, and another thing, some photographers may just contact a number of models to see who responds, then pick one and ignore the rest. Not as professional but that's the way it goes. Sometimes I'll contact a number of models before deciding which one I'll use, rather than spending a lot of time picking out one who may not even be interested or available, but in this case I always reply out of courtesy to everyone who expresses interest. And another another thing, when we say "rates are too high" it doesn't necessarily mean that they're too high for your look, style, skill, whatever, it may mean it's just too high for our budget, use etc. So be careful about getting defensive and making statements like "I know my rates aren't too high" because it can sound arrogant and insulting. Jun 06 05 02:15 pm Link Posted by David A: I find being ignored more antagonizing. I understand that budgets may vary. I don't take it personally. I do get annoyed when i see the same name pop up in my inbox over and over with the same request for rates. That person will get the same answer (probably verbatim, as I often copy and paste stock responses to stock questions), but I have been known to mention that I know they've contacted me before and never responded to my answer. Jun 06 05 02:48 pm Link Posted by theda: Posted by David A: I find being ignored more antagonizing. I understand that budgets may vary. I don't take it personally. I do get annoyed when i see the same name pop up in my inbox over and over with the same request for rates. That person will get the same answer (probably verbatim, as I often copy and paste stock responses to stock questions), but I have been known to mention that I know they've contacted me before and never responded to my answer. Thanks, Jun 06 05 03:31 pm Link Thank you all for your replys. :Smile: Jun 06 05 04:04 pm Link Hi Amber, Just looked at your site, and I don't see anything too terribly out of line on the rates. I can only give you one anecdote on the situation you ask about, because I'm in the fortunate situation of rarely needing to pay. But once I was in LA, had a cancellation on 18 hours notice, so put a couple of inquiries out not expecting much on such short notice. I would have paid a reasonable rate rather than lose the morning, and this was for swimsuit work so it shouldn't have been difficult; of the two models I asked about rates, one saw the message in time, and she came back with rates higher than I've paid on the three occasions I did pay... except those were for nudes. Given her level of experience, her expectations were very unrealistic (her rates were higher than yours, her experience less). I did respond with a polite no thanks, but didn't go into the reasons. Not my job to educate every model out there, tens of thousands of them and only one of me... I try to save the effort for the more serious ones. Hope that helps a little... but then I'm not the typical photographer. Ken Jun 06 05 04:24 pm Link Well, I always try to respond, period. If I don't respond, it's either because the e-mail got lost in the crowd, which is not a good reflection on me, or because the model was so put-offish in her e-mail to me that it's clearly a dead end. I usually have a range in mind when I contact the models, taking into account what I want to do in the shoot and how polished the model is in her presentation. If I get quoted a rate that is more than my range, I say something on the order of, "That's very fair. However, given my level of experience now, the generous terms of my MRF, and the purposes of the shoot, I have a limit of $X/hour for this shoot. If that's acceptable, please let me know. If not, I understand, and I wish you success in your endeavors." And either the model tells me to get lost, or she negotiates further. I was looking at a portfolio once, and I thought the model was out of my league. Nevertheless, I e-mailed her. She responded positively, but quoting a price of $X that I didn't want to pay. Using somewhat the same language I just quoted above, I told her I didn't want to pay more than .5X. She accepted, and we had several shoots at that negotiated price, and I came out with very nice material. You just never know. If it's too high, go ahead and counter. The worst that can happen is she says no, and then you're right where you were anyway. By the way, Amber is very responsive to inquiries, and she's very clear in her e-mails. It would be simple common courtesy to shoot an e-mail for a follow-up when the communications are so direct. Jun 06 05 04:39 pm Link Justin, "By the way, Amber is very responsive to inquiries, and she's very clear in her e-mails. It would be simple common courtesy to shoot an e-mail for a follow-up when the communications are so direct." Thank you! I do try to be clear and professional in all my E-mails and or messages from Photographers. I agree they need to show some courtesy and E-mail me back no matter if they are interested or not it's shows that you are respectable and professional. Jun 06 05 06:36 pm Link Amber, You are a great lady who I know from the omp site where we both have profiles. You have responded to each and every message I've ever sent you. (remember you were going to visit Cali once, and I forgot what happened that we were not able to get together on a shoot) So you are very professional in the way you handle your modeling business, I know that for a fact! It was Thom Bourgois who made a good point about things can often be negotiated. I remember that you like to get both pay and a CD for your modeling, so I think depending on the content, etc. that means you are open to offers if it will benefit your website for example. If photographers are working within a certain budget then they should be willing to make a counter offer for you to at least make a choice on. If the photographer is on this MM site, then it is really even easier than ever to type a simple response. As busy as I am, I still am able to find the time to write on this forum AND respond to personal messages sent to me on here. I don't mean to nag on people to reply to their email, but how hard is it? No excuses! PS: Oh no! Now there will be someone's email that I miss and I'll get yelled at! ROFLMAO If you really NEED a reply from someone because it is a project that you started planning on for example, then go ahead and send another e-mail as though the other person did not receive it. It "could" happen that they didn't get the first one ... Jun 06 05 07:23 pm Link Posted by David A: Posted by theda: Posted by David A: I find being ignored more antagonizing. I understand that budgets may vary. I don't take it personally. I do get annoyed when i see the same name pop up in my inbox over and over with the same request for rates. That person will get the same answer (probably verbatim, as I often copy and paste stock responses to stock questions), but I have been known to mention that I know they've contacted me before and never responded to my answer. Thanks, A reply is definetly better than being ignored. Jun 06 05 09:08 pm Link Posted by marksora: Posted by Patrick Walberg: Good question. Maybe admitting that a photographer is too broke to pay a low fee is a matter of embarrassment that many people would love to avoid to disclose that. Jun 06 05 09:24 pm Link Posted by CO Model Amber: Sometimes I ask for the model's rates, just for kicks and giggles, knowing that I don't pay models to shoot. Jun 06 05 09:50 pm Link Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: Posted by CO Model Amber: Sometimes I ask for the model's rates, just for kicks and giggles, knowing that I don't pay models to shoot. That's a bit unprofessional, but, I guess whatever gets your blood rushing then so be it. Jun 07 05 01:12 am Link from a human stand point not photog. if you call someone and ask them for their price (regardless of the industry). Do you call back later and say no thanks. my 2cents great portfolio by the way Jun 07 05 06:52 am Link Maybe they are asking because they are "just curious." Nothing wrong with that... Jun 07 05 07:16 am Link It's like looking in the refridgerator for no reason... One is not hungry, but for some odd reason, perhaps boredom, one looks to be reassured there is either something worth eating in there or worse - it's time to clean it out and buy new stuff... Jun 07 05 07:18 am Link I always respond to models after receiving their rate quote with a polite "thanks, but that's a more than I am willing to pay for this shoot\project". I have to agree with a previous poster about some of the "out-there" rate quotes I have received. It is hard to believe that a model with 2 cam shots from her computer with a listing of "some experience" in her profile could expect $200/hour. But hey, if you don't ask, you don't get. Jun 07 05 07:38 am Link I always get back ot the model and let him/her know if i think their rates are high for the proposed work. At least they know if this becomes a trend that they need to lower their rates to get more work. Jun 09 05 02:19 am Link I can't afford to hire professional models at this time because I'm still trying to get work and show that I am more than just a guy with a camera. When I did get the chance to have an exchange with a professional model and she told me her rates, I thought it was only polite and professional (if that is what I want to be) to respond to her. She amazed me by thanking me for letting her know and offered to meet with me to review my photos and buy a cup of coffee. We are now networking and she is telling new people about me to help my grow. Being professional, friendly, polite, or just plain respectful can go along way. Jun 09 05 03:38 am Link Posted by marksora: Posted by Patrick Walberg: Good question. I have flaked on my correspondences in the past, and I try to be more honest with (photographers) now and let them know if I'm interested. I am not bothered if they turn me down because I want to charge them for the shoot. If I really wanted to work with them that bad, I would try to negotiate. Jun 09 05 03:50 am Link Posted by CO Model Amber: If anything if we are to all be professional here. First ask yourself this question when dealing with rates. what is the usages of these images and for what time period of them being used to get some idea of what rates to charge, as models you need to also think as business persons......OK photographers you can pull yourselfs off the floor from passing out now..........but they needs to be a understanding of this with setting any prices....for me I hate the idea of rates and I like the term creative fees. Jun 09 05 04:13 am Link Recently I did not respond to a photographer who last-minute wanted to set up a shoot. I thought it was kind of fishy, especially since he didn't have a profile, but just emailed me a few not very good photos. I only responded to be nice in the first place. Sometimes it is tough when your referrals are all duds. Jun 09 05 04:45 am Link Posted by Joe K. Perez: I definitly agree. Jun 09 05 05:11 am Link |
