Lapis wrote:
NO, I am talking about us managing you and hauling your prints around and selling them for money.

ohhhhhh, well if the model is experienced but the photographer needs to learn the industry, why not. if his ego wont get in the way.

Lapis wrote:
NO, I am talking about us managing you and hauling your prints around and selling them for money.

I like the idea.
But, when would the Model be working with the buyer? The model would have to be a photo agent first, with an established network of photo buyers. Its a tough market with new internet stock agencies, and price deflation due to massive delution of images.

Photo buyers don't care who the seller looks like, as long as the images fit their needs. So, the "Hot Model" hawking images might not be taken as serious as the photo might want.

Now, if you are going to sell images to guys at Hooters (which is not a bad idea) then you might have something.

M

Lapis wrote:
Discuss:

I have several ideas, but want to hear what people think first.

As a model, I would not be able to 'manage' a photographers careers. I guess it all depends on what one's defination of a manager is.

Can I hook them up with people that want to be models?
Of course. But so could a stylist, a MUA, a hair person.... (I know, that isn't the correct term.... lol)  heck, anyone that hangs outside of FORD on an open call day can do that.




But simply getting someone photoshoots does NOT make you their manager.



Can I get a photographers book sent over to someone at Versace? (besides the front desk, hehe)
Nope.

Can I get a photographer an appointment at Vogue to talk about shooting an editorial for them?
Nope.



Unless a model is able to get a photographer published, paid work why would any photographer want to give them 20% of their earnings? (assuming they make any)


If you are talking about a situation like what I am about to propose.... I guess.. um, well, to each his own. I find it horrible personally.

If a photographer is just looking to make money, and does not care what, or whom, he is shooting then I guess *anyone* that knows people that want to be professional models can "manage" a photographer.

When I first started I met SO many young girls willing to pay ANYTHING to do a photoshoot. (Hell, I meet loads of those girls now, hehe) So, it would be extremely easy for me to pass ten girls a week on to a photographer for a shoot.

Then they pay that photographer say.... a thousand dollars and I get 20% which is $200.00 a model.

So there ya go, the model... or 'manager' is up $2,000.00 a week. And the photographer is dinmg great. (His book might not be but... now he can support himself as a 'photographer.')

The photographer might be shooting fashion with 5'2" girls that have bad skin and 40" hips.. but hey, its easy money, right? hehe

But can't anyong with access to models do this????



There is an obvious plus that I can see of a model finding a photographer people to shoot, versus someone welse that has access to aspiring models. And that is if the model that 'manages' the photographer is successful.

A girl that WANTS to model very badly will look up to someone that has editorials and ad's in her (or his) portfolio and will most likely take whatever advice is offered.

After all, she wants to get to where that girl is, right? She wants to be a paid model too.

So if the model with tearsheets pulls aside the newbie and says in a lowered voice... furtively glancing around as if she cannot have anyone else overhear this information..... "OK.... don't spread this around to anyone because I am really pulling in a favor for you here... because I think you could actually go somewhere in this industry.... here is a card. Call this photographer tommorow - he's great.. we have done LOADS of work together. Don't call him until tommorow because I want to get ahold of him today so that he knows you are coming through me and didn't just look him up online or something. His rates are just rediculous... but he owes me... and we are close friends... so if you could just cover the cost of his film, processing and time - I am REALLY going to try and convinceh im to give you a shot. His photographs got me an agency within a week. And right after that I shot for ______, ______ and ______." (Insert magazines, designers or ad's)

I know people fall for stuff like that all the time.... I hate hearing stories of girls suckered in like that.

Lapis wrote:
NO, I am talking about us managing you and hauling your prints around and selling them for money.

SUBSCRIBE

Ched wrote:
Why would I want a 16-19 year old manager?

lol, good point.

Lapis wrote:
NO, I am talking about us managing you and hauling your prints around and selling them for money.

That's more of a sales rep than a manager.

I work with a number of corporate art consultants. Most buy the work outright and then mark it up to make their end. They each have one of my print catalogs to show to their clients.

Eric Foltz

Ched wrote:
Why would I want a 16-19 year old manager?

Why would you assume that everyone who models is a 16-19 y.o?

If I were a photographer, and mayanlee wanted to help out my photographic career, I would be an idiot to say no, don't you think? (this is fantasyland, btw, just an example)

Lapis wrote:
NO, I am talking about us managing you and hauling your prints around and selling them for money.

I'll bet your pretty face could get inside a lot of doors where we could never go

Really though, anyone who can generate cash in return for a percentage will get our attention in a hurry.  It's just a variation of the service galleries provide for their commission, right?

Bruce Caines wrote:
i've been offered this at various times over the years. the couple of times i seriously considered it and did a test drive it hasn't offered me anything i felt worth committing to.

that said, i think it is a good idea and there are a few very successful photographer reps in nyc who were once models. but it can only work if the model has a few key things going for him or her. the model needs juice--clout, pull, connections--because that is what the photographer needs from his/her rep, aside from allowing the photographer to concentrate being creative and shooting jobs. this is why you don't want to do it yourself. your rep has some connections you don't. that goes hand in hand with the other thing the model, now sluggo, has to offer--a reasonably successful career as a model. if they have worked consistently then theirs is a face/name that many clients will have some familiarity with. that gets your book in the door and more attention than all the others sitting in a pile at the weekly drop-off.

they need a good business head. some of us are more adept at being creative than business people. your rep should be able to wheel and deal for you and you should feel supremely confident that they will not only GET the booking, but negotiate well for you. knowing the market you are teaming up to conquer is the most important!

a talented model is often a talented promoter--another thing that is key to a good rep. they should be able to work WITH you to understand where you want to go and create a smart, workable strategy to get there.

and very important, most good models (real-world working models, not Entertainment Tonight superstars) are likeable, and people like doing business with people they like.

so, yeah, it's been done and given the right combination of the above i would be happy to do it. unfortunately, i haven't come across any models/ex-models who have been able to deliver what they promised.

I usually do not repeat such long quotes, but I think that this is what I was trying to get at...

Lapis wrote:
NO, I am talking about us managing you and hauling your prints around and selling them for money.

I have had male and female reps and it worked out real well. But it was often who the rep knew, not gender.  They did not manage me but set up commercial jobs, took back the prints, and got a big cut of the sales.  I still had veto power on all jobs.

Lapis wrote:

Why would you assume that everyone who models is a 16-19 y.o?

I tend to think of models as being in their early teens up into their early 20's... (so I have a little bit more of an age span then Ched does, hehe) even though I KNOW there are commercial models that work until... well, I have a Grandmother on an Infomercial so... pretty old --- still, when I hear model, I think fashion. Therefore, I think young....

No put down to MayanLee at all, but what exactly would you expect a model to accomplish for you? Would you be expecting her, as your new manager to book you some spreads in Elle and Vogue? Or, as I said before, some paid shoots...?

Rachel

Lapis wrote:
Why would you assume that everyone who models is a 16-19 y.o?

After 19, they're actors. Teenagers are in a natural state of confusion that lends itself to modeling. After 19 they start to think too much. Especially about how they are going to stay models even though they no longer really look the part.

They could be younger or older than that range, but it gets strange and often bad.

Ched wrote:

After 19, they're actors. Teenagers are in a natural state of confusion that lends itself to modeling. After 19 they start to think too much. Especially about how they are going to stay models even though they no longer really look the part.

They could be younger or older than that range, but it gets strange and often bad.

lol, that is actually very true... love it

Ched wrote:

After 19, they're actors. Teenagers are in a natural state of confusion that lends itself to modeling. After 19 they start to think too much. Especially about how they are going to stay models even though they no longer really look the part.

They could be younger or older than that range, but it gets strange and often bad.

You and I come from different worlds in terms of modelling. You are talking about land based 'agency' models.

I am from the nasty internet nude art model world where most of the models are in their twenties to thirties. Since most art models do not have agency rep. we have to promote ourselves.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Land based or not, models don't need managers and photographers don't need managers either!  Why all this "neediness?"   A band or musician is much more likely to benefit from having a manager.   

I benefit from networking with others.  We work together with respect and see each other as equals.  It's all about team work.  I'm a leader but I would not like to be called a "manager" ok?  We photographers, models, webmasters, and other assorted artist do better when we can dump the label and power trip that "manager" seems to imply.  I'm unmanageable and I work with unmanageable people!  We create out of organized mass confusion!  And that's the way it's going to be!  LOL

I agree with this too. Just hearing the word manager, because of the abuse the word has suffered, makes me twinge. However, I think that representation may be another word. Artists are good at creating. Not always so good at promoting themselves. I agree that a more collaborative approach to cross promoting a group of people you affiliate yourself with as opposed to a heirarchical system makes sense. It just seems that whenever people talk about heirarchy on this site, models seem to be the ones on the bottom....I want to at least challenge that perception.

Lapis wrote:

I agree with this too. Just hearing the word manager, because of the abuse the word has suffered, makes me twinge. However, I think that representation may be another word. Artists are good at creating. Not always so good at promoting themselves. I agree that a more collaborative approach to cross promoting a group of people you affiliate yourself with as opposed to a heirarchical system makes sense. It just seems that whenever people talk about heirarchy on this site, models seem to be the ones on the bottom....I want to at least challenge that perception.

Thank you for understanding me.  I've been a "manager" for music talent a few times, and that job title can mean many things.  I was the roadie, the accountant, the booking agent (ok if it's only one band! ... more than that will mean you need to get an agents license.)  shrink, referee, security guard, merchandise table salesclerk, photographer, critic, soooo many hats!  I now am doing merchandise and promotions for a music talent, but I would not wish to have that heavy burden of "manager" because it would mean I'd not have time for life.

The most important thing for anyone with the "manager" hat is to have a clear understanding of the duties that go with it.  I am strong in some areas of business, but I am weak in others.   I could certainly benefit from working with someone stronger than I am in accounting for example.  It is too bad when photographers mistakenly think that models are not as important as themselves to creation of great pictures.  It is truely a "collaborative approach" and we should not forget that!

Lapis wrote:
You and I come from different worlds in terms of modelling. You are talking about land based 'agency' models.

Yes. To me, models are supposed to be model, no imperfections whatsoever. "If they have a dimple it must be a cute dimple!" and so on.

Bruce Caines wrote:
i've been offered this at various times over the years. the couple of times i seriously considered it and did a test drive it hasn't offered me anything i felt worth committing to.

that said, i think it is a good idea ............

............. i haven't come across any models/ex-models who have been able to deliver what they promised.

It would be great given the right circumstance as Bruce has stated.

I would add that I see it as two worlds that will be around in the future and present.
The world of ad agencies, magazines, and clients.

Then the world of the internet,  galleries,  Setting up seminars/shoot out to teach,  selling prints to art collectors and through the internet.

A model such as Lapis would know the later very well.   She would be able to take a non-emotional approach to the art work and images that the photographer does produce.
Some people are great with the business end,  others are not but make great images often never to be seen but once or twice.   A person like her who is knowledgeable with the workings of the internet and galleries would do well in that area.

I do not know her all that well but I do not know if she would excell in the area of Ad agencies and the like.   For someone like myself that would work fine for I have separation of the types of work that I do.   A book that a commercial/fashion photo rep might be showing would be very different than the book/work that someone might show to galleries,  art collectors,  and those private clients who want special shots done on commission.

I do not see the difference between what a music manager and a photo rep for the person is just doing things that the artist does not have time for or is skilled at.
A photographer might make great images but are they skilled at negotiating or selling the image.

But I would not just want someone to read my email.   They would have to sell and do it well.
Have to take care of the headaches from whom ever is hiring me.   
If I have more time to make images all the better.   If that rep could also take care of other things such as printing and hiring of people at times all the better.

But with those needs I see a conflict of interest for the models career and her need to produce her own images with new photographers and promote herself.   Some cross promotion is great and even if a model could set up jobs for me or sell my images then I would pay a portion of the fee.   But that is an open invitation to all.   Get me a job or sell my work and get a portion of the fee.  Why not?   I now have something I could not have gotten myself.

That is what it is all about.   Can you get me work that I could not or do not want to hunt down myself?

But to take someone on full time or even on an extended basis would be hard for a model for I see conflicts.   Same as with a photographer managing a model.    Most often that is just a mess,  But the agency system works and works well for many reasons.

It all depends.